PIerrick de Badas Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 I really think deliver system as we got now destroy the eco part of the game as it's exactly have having all ressources in same ports. You are just limited by outpost but noone limit you to make alt and to make them jump outpost to outpost to get all the stuff that is necessary So my idea about what devs should do to make it more intresting for players : The deliver is working now with players choosing in how many times they get ressources. 2-4-8 hours. My idea is to stack the delivers. The player don't choose when it will recieve the ressources but when they wiill leave the port and the players have limited choice. For example 4 choice per day to make people around the world happy whatever is your timearea. For example ressources leave the port on midnight, 6, 12 and 18 o clock every day. The ressources leave the port and carry all ressources that players have stac. If 3 players choose the 6hours time, then the convoy is carrying this ressources. If the 6 o clock time is full because there is too much stuff to cary, players choose an another slot or put his ressources in queue. That is to not make convoy with 250 tradder snow. I think 6 trader snow is maximum in a convoy. So how to make that without burning the server? I know we can't ask dev to program a huge system that is not burning ressources so i suggest to make the convoy sailing to the closest regional capital on the nation. It will create a huge trafic of ressources going to this ports so they will be like some hubb in eve online where everyone is ready to fight to get ressources. Ofc as the ports are not in the same distance from regional capital, all the convoy will not come on the same time making all the day ressources coming to the port. I think the idea of limited the number of convoy per port to 4 per day will limit the resosurces the server will burn to generate them. If it's too much because the serv can't make pop all convoy on same time on every port, devs can change the window of the leavingport time. For example: The french nation send his convoy on 0-6-12-18 The brits on 3-9-15-22 Or the port in antilles on 0-6-12-18 and haiti on 3-9-15-22. So to go back on subject, the convoy leave the port and sails to the closest capital regional. 2 choices now: 1) The players have to move to the capital regional to carry the ressoruces himself and then the players don't choose the outpost to send ressources but just when to send ressources to capital regional (my best option as there is no magic and you can already be happy to not have to carry ressources between the alpha port and the regional capital 2) When ressources have reach regional capital, we assume they are magicly deliver to outpost as they are now. So why to love this suggestion: + The ressources are sailing. They can be capture. Should you escort them or pray for them to join the regional capital without truble? + Create dynamism on the map around some Hot ports that will see many activity. + Improving RvR dynamism trying to nuke the ennemy port around our regional capital to not mae ennemy able to attack the convoy + not so hard for the server, at least i think he could handle it + There is no more magic, the ressources are send in large convoy sailing + Create a kind of "ingame event" every day. The players can try to attakc the convoy way between some port and regional capital, or try to camp regional capital or camp the port where they think a convoy will pop or escort his nation ressources. And they know on what time they pop so it's like a dayly mission but it's not "a mission", it's just a +fun Thanks to your attention, to the idea that may improve this idea to make the staff read it And sorry for the english 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ulysse77 Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 good proposal... why not make it regional to regional..... then the system could be use for those long trader run... and the player would still have to manually carry goods from source to regional port and regional port to final destination... And short haul would still be done by player... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PIerrick de Badas Posted December 17, 2015 Author Share Posted December 17, 2015 Se can immagine players carying ressources to Regional capital, the system work to regional capital A to regional capital B and then the player have to cary it again from regional capital B to outpost. Why not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ulysse77 Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 yep... oui c'est ça... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admin Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 Yes right. But systems become useless when you can't protect working parts. You can't protect on map NPCs. Sent shipments will be lost in 99% of cases. And no-one. No-one will sail for 15-24 hours with them to escort a particular ship. It was a job in real life to escort traders for months. Hauling was like a job and was not fun. And no-one hauled anyway after teleports were switched off. Now NPCs do it for you. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B4NGSPL4T Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 I agree with the Admin here, it was simply too much time and effort to haul goods without teleports.With that said, I think there should be an element of risk in using the AI deliveries. Perhaps introducing a slight chance that your trade fleet is attacked, causing you to loose a % of the haul (within a range perhaps of 5-15% chosen at random). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admin Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 I agree with the Admin here, it was simply too much time and effort to haul goods without teleports. With that said, I think there should be an element of risk in using the AI deliveries. Perhaps introducing a slight chance that your trade fleet is attacked, causing you to loose a % of the haul (within a range perhaps of 5-15% chosen at random). Random works strange ways. Imaging getting 20 shipments of hemp and losing 5 shipments of gold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
'Sharpe Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 If AI haulers won't be represented on OW, will we at least have a chance to blockade ports or interdict "trade routes" to cause greater loss of goods? The ideal situation would be for the raiders to actually receive some of the goods being shipped along those routes. Or if interdiction just creates a greater chance of AI hauler loss, that would work too (to a lesser extent). It opens up a lot of gameplay opportunities, for both the player route planner and trade raider. If there is no way to disrupt hauling or create risk, the AI hauling system is just magic teleport by a different name. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ulysse77 Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 I think not one was hauling simply because we still dont have an economy.... Ys we have crafting but people craft for themdelves, very few, from what ilve seen craft, and haul, for a profit. And the what we have for economy is based around societies who wish to group to create bigger ship for the societies members... I would gladly haul stuff or trade for a profit.... But therés no market. Now maybe with less durabilities this will boost shipbuilding and maybe create a demand but before EA i doubt it. Now like i mentioned earlier the habilities to see contract from other ports would create some trader. But otherise at current state a trader/crafter is only someone tired of grinding for next level and is working on building is next ship... And i like the deliveries, just think it need twealing and have somekind of impact on the econ. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathaniel Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 Yes right. But systems become useless when you can't protect working parts. You can't protect on map NPCs. Sent shipments will be lost in 99% of cases. And no-one. No-one will sail for 15-24 hours with them to escort a particular ship. It was a job in real life to escort traders for months. Hauling was like a job and was not fun. And no-one hauled anyway after teleports were switched off. Now NPCs do it for you. Random works strange ways. Imaging getting 20 shipments of hemp and losing 5 shipments of gold. I'll copy my proposal here from the patch thread since it's more appropriate here. Under it all the trade assignments in a given sector of the map will be subsumed into one big "event" that could happen once-thrice a day. So attackers and defenders will have enough time to react. And the risk wouldn't be too high if all the traders are appearing as part of a large military escort. Even if the escort WOULD be defeated traders would still loose only a part of their goods and it would not be random: This can be a very good alternative. I, like most of us here, would very like to see NPC haulers on the OW, but i'm not sure the servers can handle a number of additional NPC ships which will by far exceed the amount of players (with 3 thousand players we can speak about 10k NPCs sailing around just hauling). So a blockade mechanic which would highlight popular traderoutes on the open map and maybe send representative trader convoys from once, twice or thrice a day to be intercepted could be a nice workaround. It should be a really big and heavily guarded fleet and if it doesn't reach it's destination every trader sending his goods on that day in the general sector of the convoy route would loose a certain amount (like 30-50%). It could bring strategic trade warfare into this, give traders the choice between a safer or more faster/prosperous/dangerous route and could even tie in with port conquest, for example, if the amount of ports a nation has would determine the strenght of the military escort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admin Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 ... I would gladly haul stuff or trade for a profit.... But therés no market. Now maybe with less durabilities this will boost shipbuilding and maybe create a demand but before EA i doubt it. You can make millions in trading just for trading Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akd Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 edit: snark removed. Not clear why we have an economic system in this game at all if is going to consist of just clicking buttons in port. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ulysse77 Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 You can make millions in trading just for trading Not through contract... Well nit in my heck of the wood (or sea) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PIerrick de Badas Posted December 17, 2015 Author Share Posted December 17, 2015 if this idea can't be make,; what about the idea of just authorize tp in direction of regional capital. And then people carry ressource between capital and outpost? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admin Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 edit: snark removed. Not clear why we have an economic system in this game at all if is going to consist of just clicking buttons in port. You are the mogul not the waiter. Game transports for you - you make decisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akd Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 Sounds boring for everyone. Mogul presses buttons in port to make no-risk money; meanwhile there is nothing meaningful to hunt on open sea. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maturin Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 How about this: Hauling resources requires time. You order a delivery and it takes place in an hour or two. This way you need to plan ahead. Play a bit, then order resources just before you log off. They are there waiting for at the beginning of your next play session. Much more immersive, and just as effective. Despite the time limitation, this idea actually solves 95% of the problem that currently exists with hauling. After all, I don't mind small trips for resources. When I craft in Havana I can get oak logs, hemp and iron ore from the port next door, withing visual range. It's the fir logs and coal that are nigh inaccessible, now that the US has taken lots of the ports in Eastern Cuba. With a modicum of planning, this sort of delivery lets me can avoid that huge long stressful supply run, yet still craft the ship on time. If delivery is instant, than the location of resources becomes meaningless. Furthermore, we can assume that the ordered goods are split up into various different vessels. Goods in transit can be assigned to the holds of the regular old AI traders. Or more concretely, my ordered resources can be randomly assigned to AI traders in the loot screens after they are captured. That way players can rob me, but I am only likely to lose 10-20% of any give order. Which of course I can be reimbursed for through insurance. If I am on a schedule, I will just buy some extra, as the threat of war increases the cost of doing business. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ulysse77 Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 I think you are right.... getting ressources is not really a problem at this point. Event in the antilles we can get most ressources, readily available at reasonable distance (20 min to an hour in RL time), but i think the delivery propsosal we have might represent a bigger problem... We don`t have a working economy. Admin mentionned you can make millions of trading. That maybe true, I haven`t tryed lately, not since crafting, but back then, you could make a profit but not that much. Now we have crafting and some tool to have an economy but it still doesn;`t work. People haul for themselves, buy ressources for themselves and craft for themselves... Maybe low population is the cause, but i doubt it. My experience is i never saw a buy contract for ressources or items outside ressources creating port filled, i never saw a request for a certain boat on chat, and i never saw a buy contract for crafted items, and i tried. Even when we raid and attack NPC trader, it doesn`t affect economy and i never heard someone attack a player trading or hauling.... Economy work in societies right now where we all chip in time to make ship who are given to societies member. That may be the best way to do it, i don`t know, but if that`s the case well lets all call ourselves navies and all get rid of the money, the ressources are there, your mission is to haul it so the admiralty can build boats... Im fine with that and stop wasting time on trying to develop an economy system. Now my ideas for now -if delivery are to stay and i think they should. They should become very expensive, they are a safe way to get your goods. -why not limits the amount you can ship -Why not limits the amount you can buy on contract. -I think contract are backward, they should be to buy on the recieving port not the producing port. Maybe make it so you can`t put contract on the ressources made in that port. not more speculation, you ahve to go there and buy them, i know it was a problem when production were lower than demand but i don`t see it anymore. -Make contract visible from everywhere or at least a region so people can plan. It;s not the haul the problem is the not knowing if you will be able to sell. I know ou can always sell to the market, but if we want a real economy we need more player to player transaction. -Why not make a contract for ships all in all it;s kind of weird that we are arguing about what cannons the connie should have and still debating the fundamental of the economy, 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snoopy Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 Some way of blockading/economic warfare would be nice - more gameplay options. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admin Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 Sounds boring for everyone. Mogul presses buttons in port to make no-risk money; meanwhile there is nothing meaningful to hunt on open sea. How many player traders did you sink? I caught one since crafting was introduced - his name was alex connor and he was in a cutter. I have heard one guy has a brother who also caught another one, but he had to let him go because some pirates don't sink danes. So this makes it two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaos Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 How many player traders did you sink? I caught one since crafting was introduced - his name was alex connor and he was in a cutter. I have heard one guy has a brother who also caught another one, but he had to let him go because some pirates don't sink danes. So this makes it two. I've caught quite a few player snows for testing purposes and the time it takes compared to rewards is making it waste of time for all sides, I think I only got cargo from one trader, maybe the others were empty... Either way if I currently see a trader on sea I would let him go since it's simply not worth the time and hassle if there is no 100% quarantee they will lose all their cargo. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ulysse77 Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 My question is if the reason we don`t see deliveries as NPC on the OW is the workload on the server, can`t we just turn off the bots we have now . or adjust the number or spawning bots to whats left over the deliveries bots.... People don`t attack trader because they are a waste of time and no reward, but if every trader bot i see, is carrying deliveries you can make sure im gonna fit a yacht to sink those precious cargo.... I feel like we wont have many gameplay element in the future.... grind grind grind, level up, TP to outpost, delivery to port, build better ship.... grind grind grind level up... etc until you are big enough to buy a PB flag.... repeat.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admin Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 I feel like we wont have many gameplay element in the future.... grind grind grind, level up, TP to outpost, delivery to port, build better ship.... grind grind grind level up... etc until you are big enough to buy a PB flag.... repeat.... Delivery mechanic is not final and will be improved. You have to remember people will appreciate deliveries when they consider them from the 1000th route perspective. It is fun to sail 5 hours the first time. It is hell when you spend 5000 hours hauling. Now NPCs will do it for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ulysse77 Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 (edited) correction NPC don`t do it for me... magical air freight does it for me... or if your saying that we may see NPC do our deliveries on the OW... well it`would be perfect... Do people do 5 hours haul now?? Edited December 18, 2015 by ulysse77 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
admin Posted December 18, 2015 Share Posted December 18, 2015 Do people do 5 hours haul now?? Port conquest will eventually force some nations to haul for much longer especially if neutrals are disabled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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