Second rate - Pavel in game screenies

[Alex Connor]

The initial armament (36-24-18lb plus shell guns / 90 total) was insanity even considering the calmer waters of the Black Sea and short distances of operation. Sv Pavel's near-sistership Josif II was armed with 80 guns, 36-18-8lb, a much more reasonable loadout for a ship that's more the size of a big 74 than an 80 gunner (for reference, a later British 74 like the Vengeur would be 176ft, Sv Pavel was 180ft, the Temeraire class 74 was 183ft and the Bucentaure was 194ft). 

 

The reduced armament was 36-24-6lb, so yeah, 32-24-9lb is about right, although all the other SoL are heavily overgunned so this puts Sv Pavel at a disadvantage. Also, the armament layout is weird, the real ship had 15 pairs of upper deck guns and 11 pairs on the weatherdeck, here we have an empty gunport on each deck (14 pairs and 10 pairs) but instead the 2 pairs of gunports on the roundhouse have been armed (re-armed?). Should probably have bowchasers too, these were more or less standard on any SoL.

 

Anyway, really like this ship, pretty model and as another 2 decker it's very welcome.

[Arvenski]

Venguer and Temeraire... we need more 74s.

[marecek05]

Venguer and Temeraire... we need more 74s.

 

We really need Temeraire....there were just so many of them that she needs to be in-game....

[D. Federico de Gravina y N]

Venguer and Temeraire... we need more 74s.

We need spanish 74s....    

So the Pavel is less strong than the bellona?  

Edited July 24, 2015 by RAE_Cmdt.Cavero

[marecek05]

We need spanish 74s....    

So the Pavel is less strong than the bellona?  

 

We need classic Spanish 112s ;-)

[Lord Hood]

So that they can collide into one another and blow up?

[D. Federico de Gravina y N]

We need classic Spanish 112s ;-)

also    

[Alex Connor]

Pavel and Bellona are about equal right now, identical in armor and almost perfectly matched in armament. The Pavel is faster, but the Bellona turns better.

 

Really though the Bellona should only have 32-18-9lb guns, not 32-24-12lb, and as a bigger ship perhaps the Pavel should have slightly more hp. Would reduce the speed a little though, if this is based on being a bigger ship then we'll end up with a 16kt Bucentaure than can outpace frigates. 14kts Bellona -> 14.5kts Pavel -> 15kts Bucentaure might be better.

 

And yes, we need more 74s 

[marecek05]

In regards to Bucentaure, I might be a bit of a fanboy, but the French 36-livre guns should really be added. The ball actually weighed 39 british pounds, so It would be way closer to 42pounder guns than 32s.

[Arvenski]

We really need Temeraire....there were just so many of them that she needs to be in-game....

I'll be damned if we don't get a Temeraire at some point. Like you say, hers was such an influential and numerous class of vessels that it wouldn't make sense if they weren't represented in-game. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if we get one sooner, rather than later.

Edited July 24, 2015 by Arvenski

[Snoopy]

In regards to Bucentaure, I might be a bit of a fanboy, but the French 36-livre guns should really be added. The ball actually weighed 39 british pounds, so It would be way closer to 42pounder guns than 32s.

I hope they allow 42pdrs on the Temeraire 74s (and the bigger French ships like Bucentaure,Ocean ofc) until they add a 36.

[Alex Connor]

Yes, the 36-Livre gun should be added. But before you get too enthusiastic about it...

 

From 4lb cannon to 32lb cannon there was a steady increase in crew size to cope with the additional weight of the gun and shot. So all these guns had similar rates of reload. But the 32lb, 36-Livre and 42lb guns are all about the same length, thus there is no room to usefully increase the crew size and they all have the same 14 man guncrew. As a result, the initial rate of fire is worse for the 36-Livre (39lb) and 42lb guns, the guns crews suffer more from the effects of fatigue so the fire rate drops off even more, and when you take casualties in battle the effects are more severe because the surviving crew are trying to handle a heavier gun and heavier shot.

 

Using the 32lb gun was therefore one of the advantages the British had over their European rivals, once the benefits were realized the Royal Navy eliminated the 42lb gun and rearmed its 1st rates with 32 pdrs. The French and the American navies came to similar conclusions at a later point, France replaced her older weapons with a new system of 30-Livre (33lb) guns, and the Americans used different types of 32lb guns on all decks of their post war SoL and Frigates. Quite simply the 32lb long gun was the ideal naval weapon of it's time.

 

[Snoopy]

I have no illusions about the 36s and 42s in RL, and I dont have to manhandle these guns either, which is a plus

 

Ingame, our current overgunning of ships, and the fact that for long guns the mechanic is "bigger = better", I think the big French 74s should get something out of it that they would have had in RL - a slightly heavier main gun deck weapon and the easiest way to do this is to allow 42s.

[marecek05]

Also, it could be used to add some national design flare. Like Spanish ships usually carried lighter armament (do not know that much on spanish navy tbh), French heavier. This could be balanced by a need for a more crew to crew it (and therefore suffer stronger decrewing penalites) etc.....

[Alex Connor]

Also, it could be used to add some national design flare. Like Spanish ships usually carried lighter armament (do not know that much on spanish navy tbh), French heavier. This could be balanced by a need for a more crew to crew it (and therefore suffer stronger decrewing penalites) etc.....

I'd like to see a system like this, would make carronades more attractive because they remain workable down to even 2-3 crew members.

[Arvenski]

I hope they allow 42pdrs on the Temeraire 74s (and the bigger French ships like Bucentaure,Ocean ofc) until they add a 36.

42pdrs on a 74? Holy crap. Well, that'd be one way to deal with those pesky frigates... :lol

Edited July 24, 2015 by Arvenski