Magnum Posted March 19, 2015 Author Share Posted March 19, 2015 (edited) There is a lot of "talking past" here. We have no idea if the players names will be on 6 foot high banners over their ship in Open World or not (http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/2909-modify-the-names-over-the-ships/ for that thread) Most players would rather NOT have them. I'm sure if there are AI escorts - it will self level (self balance) as to whether you will or will not be able to "tell they are AI". I think it is a good idea to keep a noob merchant from just being a farm cow for the sharks. A good rule of thumb - Only those who see themselves as "likely" to BE the "fittest" really lobby for raw "survival of the fittest" game mechanics. I am only an OK to good player, if I see Open World come out as cut throat "survival of the fittest" with goonsquads at the top of the heap - I'll just be gone, and pretty quickly. It would't be the first $40 I would consider water under the bridge. I already know that squads are planning "how to dominate" a certain map area in the OW, nothing wrong with that - but it does point to the potential issue of independent players getting squeezed out of resources. Edited March 19, 2015 by ampaholic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grim DeGrim Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 (edited) Ten page thread with skewed poll. I'll double down on this one and put my money on names not being removed. ...I did my share I think, making it to #12 on the leader board... As for the $40, like rest rest of us (moreso in your case), the hours we've logged have paid dividends the $40 many times over. Otherwise, you wouldn't be 12th for matches played Edited March 19, 2015 by Grim DeGrim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prater Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 (edited) I am only an OK to good player, if I see Open World come out as cut throat "survival of the fittest" with goonsquads at the top of the heap - I'll just be gone, and pretty quickly. It would't be the first $40 I would consider water under the bridge. If you don't want to be squeezed out by "the Goonsquad", what you call TDA, then be the same nation as us so we can't attack you.... What I don't understand is why you continue to refer to previous friends as "goons" and what have we done to be referred to as such? What have I, or Raatha, or LTC, or others done to you to be referred to as "goons"? This is all from a disagreement over Poster Wars. I know AI will not/may not be a terrific challenge, at least all the time, but neither will new players who can't handle their sails or anticipate and choose the correct cannon loadout. Is 'clubbing these seals' somehow better or different? This has nothing to do with clubbing seals. I'm not going to waste my time in OS past a week or two or maybe less attacking Lynxes or cutters. What I don't want to do is farm AI. What a boring thing. If it is player controlled, good, that is a challenge. I don't want to attack mindless ai because I can't tell the difference between player and AI fleets/ships on the Open Sea. Edited March 19, 2015 by Prater 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Blackwell Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 "Good morning and welcome back to the thread report. Danger folks, the thread appears to be fairly volatile and veering off predicted courses during page one, cooling off and getting back on track around the midpoint and well into page three, but with hints of it picking up speed and flying god knows where near the end of page four. This has been Tom with your hourly thread report, more updates to come during your news at six. But first we go live to Captain Blood to hear his views on NPC aim times." I cant tell if the OP's original concerns about player guilds have been addressed. My only serious thought on the subject is tthis. Solo captains should learn to employ fore and aft vessels. While there is nothing limiting large group from using the same, you'll have far better chances escaping a fleet of trinco's in a Privateer than you would in a surprise. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnum Posted March 19, 2015 Author Share Posted March 19, 2015 (edited) If you don't want to be squeezed out by "the Goonsquad", what you call TDA, then be the same nation as us so we can't attack you.... What I don't understand is why you continue to refer to previous friends as "goons" and what have we done to be referred to as such? What have I, or Raatha, or LTC, or others done to you to be referred to as "goons"? This is all from a disagreement over Poster Wars. Goonsquad (sorry I meant Goonswarm) is a referral to EVE - I certainly didn't start the EVE online and other MMO game comparisons here - no need to take it personal Captain Prater. As a matter of fact I seem to remember YOU mentioning something in comparison to some other MMO? As a matter of fact TDA hasn't done anything even remotly similar to the things Goonswarm/Goonsquad does /did ---- especially since Open World is still very limited. But, you say I am referring to you as goons - are you PLANNING to do Goonswarm/Goonsquad type stuff? I know you are sad at my leaving TDA, please - it was nothing to do with you personally, and nothing (really) to do with "poster wars". --------- I also would like to see the thread stay on the "independent player in comparison with the hooked up player" vector. Edited March 19, 2015 by ampaholic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuffinBeard Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 syn, Honestly, I want the ability to tell between player and npc fleets. I'm not going to farm npcs much and if I get duped into farming the ai because you can't tell ai from player fleet that isn't going to make people happy. I don't want to play 900 some battles of pve in 4 months. My god that would be boring. Well my take on this is IF you get into a battle wouldn't it be better to not know who is AI and who is not? or is it so you can ignore ai and hone straight in on the player? whats the point in escorts then? Would you rather fight battles or hunt all day? So your going to avoid any AI contact in order to "not be duped"? If the world is big enough that players might be spread out I would think taking on a player with 5 escorts would be better than not fighting at all. I get your point and not saying its not valid or anything like that I just have always thought the point to AI in video games was to get them where you cant tell if they are human or not and that fills the world and makes it more interesting. I could see a fleet battle full of AI as maybe not your thing and I get that. If the AI isn't good and you CAN tell then ya it will be boring but if they put up a good fight wouldn't you like that better? This is one of the reasons I vote for NO floating names over your head. Make players look at the flags to decide if they are friend or foe and help immersion by getting rid of J4ck Sp4rr0w5498! Then you as a player would have to also figure out who is AI and who is real player with your experience not by name alone. In many games the AI is stupid and sometimes annoying but to me I would rather play BF 1942 full of 32 vs 32 bots to emulate a battle then a 2 on 2 match in a huge map. anything that moves is bad guy and the world is dead. Today's shooters are all online and ya it can be fun as long as there is people to play with. If the player base is not on when you are or the following has slowed then just sit on your thumb in a lobby. This game may be different I was just trying to make a point that AI is important. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prater Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 (edited) This has nothing to do with clubbing seals. I'm not going to waste my time in OS past a week or two or maybe less attacking Lynxes or cutters. What I don't want to do is farm AI. What a boring thing. If it is player controlled, good, that is a challenge. I don't want to attack mindless ai because I can't tell the difference between player and AI fleets/ships on the Open Sea. If you can't tell the difference between PVE and PVP, then there isn't any point to playing. People will leave from boredom. Ramjb, Sidestrafe, Bismark all say avoid pve. How about the PVE players stick to playing pve and allow pvp players to fight pvp. I'm not going to fight 200 pve battles in 4 months once OW comes out, let alone 900. I'd rather have 1v1 players than 32 bots vs 31 bots and 1 player. If people are going to be solo players, they will be at a disadvantage. That is how it should be. They can buy ai escorts, but we must know what is a player fleet and what is an ai fleet. Edited March 19, 2015 by Prater Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuffinBeard Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 I doubt Grim DeGrim is a period name. You'll know. I agree with the idea of AI. Just a subtle point of difference: #1, I prefer to know once in battle who is who... #2, player names will likely give this away (lack of variety on npc's part, and wide variety on player's part) The only way you'd never be sure is if they take out ALL names... YES take out ALL names! spy there stern to find there names or look at a flag. A group member should run up a blue flag. If no blue flag and they are not from your nation... foe. This instant reveal of red vs green is a little arcade y to me and has been done if every game so far. Lets change it to more of a challenge. During fleet actions your group has a flag for your side and maybe the leader is flying a gold flag above group flag. Of course I like the idea of seeing who your fighting with but don't you think it would feel more real to have to spy his stern and go OH hey there's Ram... You could almost see him on the quater desk rather than hes flying over his mast. JMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grim DeGrim Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 (edited) Independent player Pro's: - flexibility on timing of activities - no reliance on other players - Full control of events of your side Games (sandbox) where independent has been successful: - eve online (even with goonswarm) - Arma - pirates of the Burning Sea Independent Cons: - reliance of other players for group activities - can limit game play from certain aspects (rvr) - limits social interaction and the furtherance of group goals - limited protection in hostile areas (ie, strength in numbers) Games (sandbox) where independent have not been successful: - eve online (even with goonswarm) - Arma - pirates of the Burning Sea In short, there is no answer to your question it is up to the individual. How you will act is your choice. Edit: famous typos Edited March 19, 2015 by Grim DeGrim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grim DeGrim Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 YES take out ALL names! spy there stern to find there names or look at a flag. A group member should run up a blue flag. If no blue flag and they are not from your nation... foe. This instant reveal of red vs green is a little arcade y to me and has been done if every game so far. Lets change it to more of a challenge. During fleet actions your group has a flag for your side and maybe the leader is flying a gold flag above group flag. Of course I like the idea of seeing who your fighting with but don't you think it would feel more real to have to spy his stern and go OH hey there's Ram... You could almost see him on the quater desk rather than hes flying over his mast. JMO You'll have to go revive the thread, but no. I disagree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuffinBeard Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 (edited) If you can't tell the difference between PVE and PVP, then there isn't any point to playing. People will leave from boredom. Ramjb, Sidestrafe, Bismark all say avoid pve. How about the PVE players stick to playing pve and allow pvp players to fight pvp. I'm not going to fight 200 pve battles in 4 months once OW comes out, let alone 900. I'd rather have 1v1 players than 32 bots vs 31 bots and 1 player. If people are going to be solo players, they will be at a disadvantage. That is how it should be. They can buy ai escorts, but we must know what is a player fleet and what is an ai fleet. If we are talking about playing a team death match then ya ok. If its a big fleet battle only pvp ok. I'm not sure I care that a few people say avoid an aspect to the game. Unless you are just a follower. The bridge is that way ---> Yes solo players should be at a disadvantage I agree. I don't have an issue with that. In my case I prefer to have a mix of a living breathing world with things going on around me. Players rarely do the mundane things that ai is usually assigned to. I agree that you should be able to tell if a fleet is a player or not then people like you who only want pvp can avoid parts of the game that don't have exclusively players in them. ( didn't mean for that to sound bad ) If it ends up being all pvp with no ai then I will get bored. Everything you see will be just another death match. Been there done that. Why bother making the game any bigger? Just improve the death matches and release the game. Unless you think that this world will be full of players all the time. Then they shouldn't do any work on ai. ( a little sarcasm there) Better work on a good lobby system then. again JMO don't take any of this as hostile I respect your opinions Prater Edited March 19, 2015 by StuffinBeard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SYN_Bloody-Bandy Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 (edited) If you can't tell the difference between PVE and PVP, then there isn't any point to playing. People will leave from boredom. Ramjb, Sidestrafe, Bismark all say avoid pve. How about the PVE players stick to playing pve and allow pvp players to fight pvp. I'm not going to fight 200 pve battles in 4 months once OW comes out, let alone 900. I'd rather have 1v1 players than 32 bots vs 31 bots and 1 player. If people are going to be solo players, they will be at a disadvantage. That is how it should be. They can buy ai escorts, but we must know what is a player fleet and what is an ai fleet. You want AI ship radar why? Because you are shouting louder? Nobody is advocating only a PvE world for battles, I don't see that in any post here (re-read my posts if you care), yet that is what you and others posting similar perspectives, fall back on as a basis for argument for AI radar, and it is sorely lacking. Edited March 19, 2015 by SYN_Bloody-Bandy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuffinBeard Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 You'll have to go revive the thread, but no. I disagree I am only assuming that would add realism to the game. Maybe gameplay would slow down and suffer. I dunno I'm just speakin whats on my mind. I'll not revive the the thread I've said this opinion a lot im sure any of you who have read it is tired of reading it. HAH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grim DeGrim Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 No more, no less. In naval battles, Captains had Intel on each other. Especially the famous ones. But we digress... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prater Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 You want AI ship radar why? Because you are shouting louder? Nobody is advocating only a PvE world for battles, I don't see that in any post here (re-read my posts if you care), yet that is what you and others posting similar perspectives, fall back on as a basis for argument for AI radar, and it is sorely lacking. If you can't tell a player fleet from an ai fleet it will be largely pve. The ai population will always be greater than the player population. I don't want to grind pve. If you want to, then play pve and allow us who want to play pvp, play pvp. Without the ability to see if a fleet is player or ai, then the majority of ships on the horizon will always be ai, and finding another player will be like finding a needle in a haystack. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuffinBeard Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 (edited) If you can't tell a player fleet from an ai fleet it will be largely pve. The ai population will always be greater than the player population. I don't want to grind pve. If you want to, then play pve and allow us who want to play pvp, play pvp. Without the ability to see if a fleet is player or ai, then the majority of ships on the horizon will always be ai, and finding another player will be like finding a needle in a haystack. ya i get your point now Not sure how the escort thing will work yet. If a player has an escort we wont know if the escort might be all players or ai depending on who is in a que for fleet escort? So i suppose it would just show up as one ship with an escort but a "real" fleet would more than likely show up as multiple ships on the OW map? Seems like maybe it will be easy to avoid escorts but hell i dunno Or do you think once "grouped" as a fleet it would only show as a single ship in OW? I don't know that might make things a little harder to know who is who or better yet who isn't a who. Edited March 19, 2015 by StuffinBeard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prater Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 (edited) I actually don't care if a player has an AI escort. The AI commander app sounds cool. All I want is the ability to know if there are any players in a fleet/squad/ship on the Open World. If it has ai and I don't want to fight ai, I can ignore it and move on to the next fleet/squadron/ship and if that is ai, I can ignore it, until I find players or get attacked by ai (just as long as it isn't like Age of Pirates Caribbean Tales where every minute you are having to dodge pirates). Now, a special skill that allows you to "blend in with ai fleets", now that sounds cool, just as long as it doesn't last forever, has a cool down, is hard to get, etc. But not knowing whether a fleet is ai only or player is bad for business. 90% of battles will be player vs ai. I'm not fighting 800 battles against the ai in 4 months. I will be willing to fight 800 battles against players though (with a bit of pve thrown in as well). Edited March 19, 2015 by Prater 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest raat Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 A good rule of thumb - Only those who see themselves as "likely" to BE the "fittest" really lobby for raw "survival of the fittest" game mechanics. Well, yeah...it's not called "survival of the mediocre"... I already know that squads are planning "how to dominate" a certain map area in the OW, nothing wrong with that - but it does point to the potential issue of independent players getting squeezed out of resources. I really don't know what you logic is here. Why should a single ship captain be able to conquer and hold a port/resources in a contested region? How's that make sense? I still don't know what you want. I understand your argument. The independent player is a victim of this OW environment filled with "Goonsquads" hellbent on their destruction and there's nothing they can do but die and cry. (which is of course not true in the slightest, especially since the game isn't even out yet) I mean, unless all these clans are planning on being pirate clans, which none of them are, then there is no point to the worry posted here. But what's your solution? What is it that you actually want? Or are you just wailing publicly, "woe is the little guy"? Give us a solution to your perceived problem with the game. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chustler Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 The independent player must have different goals and expectations. They will be spending way more time dodging combat situations and sailing ships that favor that kind of play. That's fine as long as you understand that going in. Certainly a solo player should not be expecting to be a dominant force on the open sea, but rather an opportunist and an expert in not getting into bad situations. A solo player should not be expecting to line fight or dominate a regional trade networks. Those would be unrealistic goals for a single person... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnum Posted March 19, 2015 Author Share Posted March 19, 2015 I mean, unless all these clans are planning on being pirate clans, which none of them are, then there is no point to the worry posted here. If you see no point to the "worry" posted here - perhaps you could move along to a thread about the best way to do ... whatever it is YOU want to do and quit off topic-ing this thread? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnum Posted March 19, 2015 Author Share Posted March 19, 2015 The independent player must have different goals and expectations. They will be spending way more time dodging combat situations and sailing ships that favor that kind of play. That's fine as long as you understand that going in. Certainly a solo player should not be expecting to be a dominant force on the open sea, but rather an opportunist and an expert in not getting into bad situations. A solo player should not be expecting to line fight or dominate a regional trade networks. Those would be unrealistic goals for a single person... I totally agree that a single independent player's goals must be different than a group player - I just hope you agree that they shouldn't be "lesser" is all. I posted this thread to see as much as anything if there is a "leaning" one way or another by game labs (the only opinion that counts). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest raat Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 If you see no point to the "worry" posted here - perhaps you could move along to a thread about the best way to do ... whatever it is YOU want to do and quit off topic-ing this thread? Disagreeing with you is different from being off-topic. My questions of what is your purposed solution to the perceived "individual player" problem with the game is off-topic? I also notice, you chose not to answer any of my questions... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 I'll be playing primarily on my own but will be fighting for a nation. I think that being affiliated with a nation and working for that nation will be much like being in a large society. I do believe this game will not be like POTBS at all, I think it will be far more focused on nations at war, at least I hope so. Being that NA is just being born we don't really know much and this is all speculation on our part though I do believe the mods know more than any of us they are under NDA and can't say anything. I'm having a good time just watching this game get created before my eyes and all this worrying seems way to early. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antihide Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 Does he have to have an answer or solution for the question he asks? Of course not! This is a place to discuss and bring forwards your thoughts about the game and its future. Why are you being so harsh on him for no clear reason? Disagreeing is fine and good for the conversation, but confronting him with questions like "But what's your solution? What is it that you actually want? Or are you just wailing publicly, "woe is the little guy"? Give us a solution to your perceived problem with the game." is not OK Imho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grim DeGrim Posted March 19, 2015 Share Posted March 19, 2015 (edited) "lesser" is a matter of opinion... But we're all equal in the eyes of Game Labs. (see what I did there?) Perhaps L'État will post and weigh in on the discussion... Edited March 19, 2015 by Grim DeGrim 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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