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[ZorinW]

Current campaign from one turn to the next ALL WARS ENDED with no results. Everyone is just friends all of a sudden!

 

EDIT: Set all my ships to limited or mothball and am still losing 32 millions a month due to ammunition and fuel cost....

EDIT II: Had not a single event since world peace and now I am at -99 with the USA. All my ships are in port set to limited or mothballed!

 

This is all sooooo broken....

Edited November 7, 2022 by ZorinW

[Shaun]

5 hours ago, Nick Thomadis said:

Ignored Optional Missions where you defend your transports or a blockade of the enemy against your home provinces, will grant VP to your enemy. Are you sure, and other who complain so much, that these points are not derived from one of the above reasons?

I get the same issue. I was Japan at war with Russia and China, I had a lot of transport so naturally I had a ton of convoy defence missions as well as others. I completed every one. Enemy still got VP. However, there was a fair few missions where the enemy must have started facing the other way, and being slightly faster than I, I ended up never meeting him. I would retreat until the end mission tab. I think enemies should spawn chasing the convoy and not facing away. As well as this 1890s spawns need to be closer. Also I don’t like how nations with inferior or equal tech somehow spot me first and they get a fair few shots in before I can even see them.

[Littorio]

Well...it appears sitting out for several months hasn't improved anything at all. In fact, for those of you who know me and remember, it looks like precisely what I predicted would happen, has happened. Namely:

- Expanding the map has only exacerbated earlier balance issues (international relations, strength of countries vs. foes)

- Rather than improving the game, adding features has only destabilized it further (see mines, subs, fuel, etc)

- The AI still retreats in battle almost always despite innumerable "Battle AI improvements"...

- Ill-designed formation mechanics still plague the game and make large-scale fleet actions impossible

- The UI just became more cluttered, and it is still not optimal and more work than is necessary (see task forces on map)

- The increasingly baked-in "spotting" mechanics degrade the credulity of engagement circumstances (though recon interests me and seems to be the only thing possibly beneficial in aggregate that was added)

I can surmise all of this just by reading feedback here from posters that I trust. I would gladly reinstall and test this game some more, as I had done for each version starting with the standalone launcher, prior to it being released on Steam. But what would be the point right now? Time is valuable. If it was fun to play, testing would be worth it, but it is not even enjoyable after 30 minutes in it's current state. Moreover, why bother testing when such flaws are already known, mentioned, and repeated 100x over, and yet are still present in the game? I see no need to dogpile.

It is the sum of a broken foundation being continually built upon, with bugs simply hamstringing widespread and glaring design flaws that degrade the UI/UX with each passing update, which only adds more and more clutter to an already top-heavy experience. In short, it's capsizing under it's own weight (something still not visually-modeled in game, nor weather, nor....never mind). Basic things that should have been prioritized first are held back in favor of simply greater scope, all I suspect to get more eyeballs on target. I wish things were different, and I hope to see a major improvement in several months time that might make this title worthy of testing again.

 

Edited November 7, 2022 by Littorio

[Lima]

5 hours ago, BELEW848 said:

So does this mean if I love the look of the German MK 2 gun I can keep the look but it will be a MK 5 gun cuz I would love to choose the look of the gun cuz some ships look better with older looming guns then new guns can someone tell me if this is possible I haven't even had time to play

As soon as the ship is refitted, it will receive improved guns of the new model (if they are investigated). That is, you can keep the old guns, but together with the old ships.

[Skeksis]

53 minutes ago, Littorio said:

Expanding the map has only exacerbated earlier balance issues

That’s not the problem, it should have remained in beta for a month or two, clearing up issues, even minor ones.

IMO Dev’s need to start releasing UAD live versions in a somewhat polished state. That’s what those players are waiting for, a live version where they don’t have to deal with bugs and issues.

Edited November 7, 2022 by Skeksis

[Lima]

@Nick ThomadisPlease, please, please fix it. Please. It just kills my desire to play. I chose the option to fight on. I had almost given up this campaign when the same thing happened with Italy. This bug has been in the game ever since the peace talks appeared. In the face of huge problems with VP, the inability to accumulate them is incredibly frustrating. I would like to continue, but it's just unbearable.

Edit: ugh, bug inside a bug. Well, I made peace with France and China on the same turn. The result is a single menu for two countries. And the number of my money for trading corresponds to only one country (I had about 15K VP with each country, that's about 110000000$ in my experience).

Edited November 7, 2022 by Lima
bug inside a bud

[Lima]

The good thing is that this time I strengthened my ass with a whole bunch of backup saves. It took me 7 attempts for France and China to simultaneously decide to continue the war. China refused 2 times, France refused 3 times and both refused 1 time. And I chose the option "continue the war". But it's completely random.

I mean, I understand why they don't want to fight, they have less than 5 ships left. But I'm sorry, to get at least something sane (I mean, why do I need this Mongolia) I have to destroy your fleet 2 more times. These 15K VP for the complete destruction of the fleet is just a joke. Lol, you killed 50K sailors and sunk 200+ ships? Take Corsica, lol.

Edited November 7, 2022 by Lima
take Corsica

[Schmitty21]

1 hour ago, Lima said:

The good thing is that this time I strengthened my ass with a whole bunch of backup saves. It took me 7 attempts for France and China to simultaneously decide to continue the war. China refused 2 times, France refused 3 times and both refused 1 time. And I chose the option "continue the war". But it's completely random.

I mean, I understand why they don't want to fight, they have less than 5 ships left. But I'm sorry, to get at least something sane (I mean, why do I need this Mongolia) I have to destroy your fleet 2 more times. These 15K VP for the complete destruction of the fleet is just a joke. Lol, you killed 50K sailors and sunk 200+ ships? Take Corsica, lol.

It is random by design. Rule the Waves has the same diplomacy system. You aren't making the decision, the government is and they're asking for your input prior to diplomatic talks. In game play terms you are weighting a dice roll for a chance to end the war but because its a dice roll it won't always come out the way you want to. Remember your role is secretary of the navy, not dictator of the government. 

[Lima]

33 minutes ago, Schmitty21 said:

It is random by design. Rule the Waves has the same diplomacy system. You aren't making the decision, the government is and they're asking for your input prior to diplomatic talks. In game play terms you are weighting a dice roll for a chance to end the war but because its a dice roll it won't always come out the way you want to. Remember your role is secretary of the navy, not dictator of the government. 

I would accept this system, a quick peace agreement is good. I did everything in my power - I destroyed their fleet, for this we should be given a lot of colonies...what, Mongolia? Yeeaaaaaaaaah, right, I guess.

In general, this is very funny. If we win and can wage war, any country will try to get maximum profit. Just imagine how the US got a couple of islands in the Pacific Ocean instead of Cuba and the Philippines. And only Sakhalin would be enough for the Japanese.

And anyway, if I don't affect anything, why bother me? The game should be fun. When politicians ruin all my work, it's incredibly infuriating. You'll say it's realistic, and it is. But games are not played to get annoyed. This RNG peace does not give anything good to this game.

In the end, we need a system with a balance. If we win overwhelmingly, if the economy is good, the war should always be continued. If we have any problems, the war is not going in one direction or the economy is on the decline, there should be a chance of peace. And I will accept it. But now it's just incredibly infuriating. I didn't fight my way through doomfleet of 200 ships and a thousand bugs to get Mongolia.

Edited November 7, 2022 by Lima
I love RNG

[Schmitty21]

46 minutes ago, Lima said:

I would accept this system, a quick peace agreement is good. I did everything in my power - I destroyed their fleet, for this we should be given a lot of colonies...what, Mongolia? Yeeaaaaaaaaah, right, I guess.

In general, this is very funny. If we win and can wage war, any country will try to get maximum profit. Just imagine how the US got a couple of islands in the Pacific Ocean instead of Cuba and the Philippines. And only Sakhalin would be enough for the Japanese.

And anyway, if I don't affect anything, why bother me? The game should be fun. When politicians ruin all my work, it's incredibly infuriating. You'll say it's realistic, and it is. But games are not played to get annoyed. This RNG peace does not give anything good to this game.

In the end, we need a system with a balance. If we win overwhelmingly, if the economy is good, the war should always be continued. If we have any problems, the war is not going in one direction or the economy is on the decline, there should be a chance of peace. And I will accept it. But now it's just incredibly infuriating. I didn't fight my way through doomfleet of 200 ships and a thousand bugs to get Mongolia.

I never said it was realistic. You said it was a bug and I pointed out it is a design feature. It's the way the game this game is based off of works. I like that it adds difficulty and randomness. It does need more balancing.

[Shaun]

I absolutely annihilated Germany and Russia (they are allied), to the point Germany has no ships left! Still no surrender...

[SpardaSon21]

8 hours ago, SodaBit said:

I've got some ship balance feedback here, but it's actually pretty amusing, so I wouldn't exactly mind if this issue goes unfixed for the time being.
November, 1930, I'm refitting my old "CL's" with RADAR and other new technologies I've picked up over the past few years, when I notice something incredible.

I've managed to make a ship with an 80,000 kilometer operational range. In 1930.
This Sub 10,000 Ton CL Somehow Carries Enough Fuel to Circumnavigate the Globe Twice Without Refueling.
(Assuming she can sail in a straight line the whole way, but still)
I think we can safely tune back the operational range modifiers a bit. All this CL is going to do is sit in harbor and lay mines, not try to beat Von Spee at his own game. Not the most critical thing in the world, but it's just a bit much imo.

And you'll run out of fuel after a single trans-Atlantic crossing thanks to how the game works.

[Lima]

31 minutes ago, Schmitty21 said:

I never said it was realistic. You said it was a bug and I pointed out it is a design feature. It's the way the game this game is based off of works. I like that it adds difficulty and randomness. It does need more balancing.

There are so many bugs in this game that I do not know what is a bug and what is a feature.

What's the difficulty? No, seriously, what's the difficulty? De facto, I'm just being thrown back to the very beginning. I just need to sink the enemy fleet one more time. It's not difficult. Also, I can reach 15K VP several times, peace will be concluded and I will not get Taiwan. Again. What a wonderful RNG, how interesting! 

I'm talking about the fact that now there is no way in the game to confidently get a lot of points without a long war (hello bug with submarines). And a long war can be easily interrupted by a wonderful RNG. I already have experience. During the game for Austria-Hungary, I twice lacked a few points for the Philippines. Twice my Government has made peace. It's not interesting at all.

Edited November 7, 2022 by Lima

[Kane]

So, I can definitively confirm that destroying a nation breaks the campaign.

1)  To recap, this first happened with China.  I took Formosa and "Mongolia" (still wondering if that is supposed to be Manchuria) away from them.  China disintegrated as a result.  On the turn immediately after the game hung at "Next Turn", and would not advance no matter how long I waited.  (Ran 5, 10, 15, and 30 minute timers giving it the opportunity to advance.  It never went past Next Turn.)  I reverted to a backup-save to avoid this.  Had another war with China, but despite cutting their asses off and handing it to them, I didn't get Formosa when I asked for it in order to confirm this bug.  But just a few turns later...

2)  Now it has happened again with Great Britain.  After a war with me and several other nations, GB went bankrupt.  On the following turn the game has once again become locked on "Next Turn".  No amount of waiting seems to be enough for the game to advance.

So at this point, anything you do which results in a nation's destruction also results in the campaign's destruction.


As an addendum I'm also going to point this out.

Most of Great Britain's death came from me, and a blockade that finally seemed to do something.  Britain would end the war with me, but would still go bankrupt a few turns later while it was still fighting Russia and Austrio Hungary.

Thing is, the whole time I had Britain blockaded, (with multiple fleets parked around the home islands) they had all the tools they needed to break the blockade.  I was Germany.  Britain had more than 2x as many battleships as I did.  My battleships were better, but they still had 35 to my 15.  They had double the number of cruisers I had, around triple the number of light cruisers, and way more TB's/DD's than I did.

Problem is, they never brought them home to break the blockade.  The entire time their whole fleet was gathered into one giant doom stack that spent all of its time fighting Russians on their way to Japan via the Med, and Austro-Hungarians at home in the Med.

So Britain died because she would not bring her ships home to save the home islands, and her death in turn has permanently broken the campaign.

Seems to be a few issues here...

Edited November 7, 2022 by Kane

[Lima]

6 minutes ago, Kane said:

So, I can definitively confirm that destroying a nation breaks the campaign.

1)  To recap, this first happened with China.  I took Formosa and "Mongolia" (still wondering if that is supposed to be Manchuria) away from them.  China disintegrated as a result.  On the turn immediately after the game hung at "Next Turn", and would not advance no matter how long I waited.  (Ran 5, 10, 15, and 30 minute timers giving it the opportunity to advance.  It never went past Next Turn.)  I reverted to a backup-save to avoid this.  Had another war with China, but despite cutting their asses off and handing it to them, I didn't get Formosa when I asked for it in order to confirm this bug.  But just a few turns later...

2)  Now it has happened again with Great Britain.  After a war with me and several other nations, GB went bankrupt.  On the following turn the game has once again become locked on "Next Turn".  No amount of waiting seems to be enough for the game to advance.

So at this point, anything you do which results in a nation's destruction also results in the campaign's destruction.
 

I had it in beta, but I didn't know exactly what the problem was. It turns out it's time to stop beating China and move on to saving the world.

[Kane]

3 minutes ago, Lima said:

I had it in beta, but I didn't know exactly what the problem was. It turns out it's time to stop beating China and move on to saving the world.

Yeah, problem is, as noted the issue is not limited to China.

[Lima]

24 minutes ago, Kane said:

Yeah, problem is, as noted the issue is not limited to China.

I will beat those who beat the weak so that the world will survive. Oh, right, it's me. It's time for the US.

[Skeksis]

Add this to the list:

If a nation dissolves while you're at war with them, shouldn't you get a chance at some of their provinces? Not home ports but foreign ports. All grayout when nation dissolved, no chance for another nation to own them.   

It seems like a cheap trick to deny a warring nation any rewards because said nation has beaten them into economical failure.

Edited November 8, 2022 by Skeksis

[Fangoriously]

Started a 1920s Spain campaign and am more than 6 years in, been remarkably stable especially after the last patch. turns only take 2 minutes max to play through, though there are some bugs.

here you can see 3 turrets stuck, thats still happening pretty often.

and here you can see a 24.7 knot CA, with an engine offline, keeping up with 2 BCs going 28.2 knots, when they are in the same group.

and here you can see japan, that hasn't sunk a single one of my ships, hasn't sunk more than 5 of my transports on that side of the world, hasn't blockaded me, and hasn't had any any battles i let slide, soundly beating me in victory points. I've heard others in the forum saying this is happening with Russia as well, but i'm friendly with them these days.

 

Happy to report mines are not striking my ships wile they travel through the center of oceans anymore, in fact not a single one of my ships this campaign has been damaged by mines as i have been very careful, mine damage is being dealt within their visual radius as far as i can tell. At least in the 1920s.

*edit

so thats what a loss looks like, took bugged VP to ever see this screen

LMAO, i cant even click to send anything to that port anyway its all yours.

also seemed to have unlocked 22in torps before 21in torps.

Edited November 8, 2022 by Fangoriously

[Nichsloopington]

Had a funny bug with the vp. As japan I beat China badly to the point I had 99k vp. I had another  mission that  pushed it over 100k and instead of going  to 101k vp I had infinite vp. I also for some reason got infinite naval funds too lol

[Lima]

Task forces, doomfleet and AI in general

First of all, I understand that making good AI is very difficult. So here I will describe how the situation with AI is at the moment.

Doomstack. In short: doomstack is bad.

This thing is still present. The AI now has more small task forces, but about 80-90% of the fleet is in one pile. The problem is that AI can control no more than 50 ships well (and FPS drops yeah). So most of the doomstack just sits and does nothing. Also, usually most of the ships in the doomstack have serious damage (engines).

This is a common problem of all AI task forces - they constantly have heavily damaged ships and the AI does not care about it. It's not trying to send them for repairs.

Also, after the first destruction of the doomstack, it will slowly revive. AI will gather a lot of ships in one task force. Of course, it will never exceed the original doomstack, but I have seen about 100 ships in the revived French doomstack, which is already a lot.

You can say that you need to collect a lot of TB/DD/CL to damage large ships and that's right. However, AI is simply not able to control a large number of ships, that's the problem. Perhaps, to allow the small ships to prove themselves, they can be removed from the first phase of the battle (Clash of fleets) and used in the second (Struggle). Or just don't let the AI gather a lot of ships.

Also, doomstack often runs out of fuel, it suffers a lot from mines.

Strategic level. In short: its bad.

The AI is very determined in sending its forces to the enemy's coast, and if it has one opponent, it will successfully park its doomstack and smaller task forces near the enemy's coast. However...

Firstly, the AI does not pay attention to fuel at all. In the later stages of the game and for countries like Britain, this is not such a problem. However, when something like Austria-Hungary sends a fleet to the US, it will sit without fuel and the AI will do nothing about it.

Secondly, the AI does not pay attention to mines at all. For the most part, AI has a lot of minesweepers and mines of other AI are not such a problem. But there is a player who can make a very large minefield, the AI just doesn't care and as a result, huge losses.

Thirdly, in a war with several opponents, the poor AI simply can't cope. Task forces are starting to make useless circular routes on the map. For example, Britain in the war with the US and Japan constantly moved its doomstack along a circular route from three points in the Atlantic for about 3 years, until I caught up with it. And of course I have a golden example when the German fleet moved back and forth along the Suez Canal for more than ten turns, I don't remember exactly on which turn I was able to engage them.

Fourthly, the AI often does not react to changes in the strategic situation. What is it, our homeland was taken into blockade? Pf, we continue to sunbathe in the Caribbean. I must say, in a war with one enemy, sometimes (like 1/4 probability) the AI moves its fleet to home. But as I said in a war with several opponents (which can be said to be constant in this game) the AI is just getting lost.

Tactical level. In short: its OK.

I've played a lot of similar games and I can't say that the current tactical AI is very bad. Sometimes it even makes very dangerous maneuvers. Also now the AI doesn't run away in every fight, which is good. However, I would still like to see improvements. For example, the AI attacked my convoy, but decided to retreat in battle, having superiority in forces. It seems to me that the AI should attack and run away only when taking damage. 

AI ship designs. This is a really good component.

Now AI is building adequate ships and you can see the features of each nation. Sometimes there are problems when the refit turns out to be worse than the original ship (let's remove two turrets of the main caliber lol). However, in general, the AI, especially with "Very Advanced" technology, is able to improve its fleet taking into account technology and can keep on an equal footing with the player.

Special: interaction of the player's operational groups with the AI's operational groups

It's very difficult to get task forces to fight. I park my task forces in the straits, they have a diverse composition, but the AI passes the straits without problems. I no longer pay attention to the 1-2-3 ships, but the doomstack passing through Gibraltar in full view of half of my fleet are simply amazing. I take the straits as the most outstanding example, there are also hundreds of examples of my task forces trying to catch up with the enemy at sea.

Do you know why I say that the British fleet has been circling for 3 years? Because, well, I've been watching it for 2 years and catching it for 1 year. I've even set up task forces in the places where they stop. Our forces constantly crossed, but there were no fights. Finally, by some miracle, I managed to catch them. I do not know how that time was different from all the others.

What surprises me the most is that fights with submarines work great. My submarines are in the straits and constantly catching enemy ships while my entire fleet is fishing.

I can also say that if you and the enemy have neighboring ports, missions will be generated very often, you will have fun and task forces are not needed.  However, the map is very large, and for some countries it is not possible to fight without task forces.

Conclusion

Well, as you can see, the strategic level is a big problem. I understand it's very difficult to set up. Especially considering where the developers live. I could ignore most of these problems if the interaction between the operational groups worked. But now I have to chase doomstacks for months and I have time to observe all this. In the future, this game has a huge potential to be interesting if the AI is properly configured. For now I would just like to be able to reliable attack AI with task forces.

[Lima]

Submarines generate more missions in one turn than my entire fleet in many months.

[aznfoo]

On 11/4/2022 at 3:01 PM, TheSublimeGoose said:

Apologies if this has been discussed, but is there something going on with big guns, their accuracy, and their penetration values?

Boot up the "There Can Only Be One" NA mission.

No matter what guns I use -- even with 20" guns with 214in of deck penetration (at 20,000m) I mostly get partial pens. The enemy, on the other hand, can seemingly cut through my 20in deck, 15in fore, 14.5 aft with little to no issue. Modern armor II, so add 160% to those values. Oh, and maxed-out citadel with nearly maxed-out inner deck armor, all three levels. Enemy still scoring thousands of damage points with single 17-19" hits. Nonsensical.

Lastly the enemy is hyper-accurate, hitting far more often than they miss.

I've never died so many times (and I still have yet to beat it) in this game over a year+ of playing.

Yup, ever since they added in the citadel armor mechanic and whatnot, the guns and shells just don't work anymore. No point in playing when shells that have ridiculous levels of penetration seem to shatter on full broadside ships at point blank range, only getting deck hits/bounces at point blank range, and really bad hitboxes. Funny thing is that the game was less broken when it wasn't on Steam yet and all these continuous updates just keep breaking the ship mechanics.

[Lima]

Three game-breaking bugs

First - task force in a death loop

After the battle, my task force went home with an order "Protect". The mission "We cornered an enemy task force" was generated. I don't need to fight, I'm going home. But there is no option to retreat (WHY?). All my DDs are damaged, I can't catch up with enemy destroyers. I tried auto-resolve. All ships received light damage. On the next turn, my task force did not move anywhere and the same task "We cornered an enemy task force" was generated. Eventually it lasted 5 turns. At some point, my ships started taking damage from mines. This is just nonsense, why are these 3 destroyers so important to you? Just go home. However, I can't say how it ended, because...

Second - freezed submarine auto-resolve

I pressed auto-resolve button (I mean, there are no other buttons here) and nothing happened. I waited 5 minutes, nothing changed.

I went to the menu and loaded the save. The result was this. My prestige and unrest, scores with Spain become NaN.

Third - when a country is destroyed, the game freezes forever

Confirmation of what @Kane revealed. I took Mongolia and Taiwan from China, it was destroyed and the game freezes forever on the next turn. The biggest mystery for me here is why China broke up because of "losses of native provinces". I mean, Mongolia and Taiwan are not part of China right now, but China is still here.

[Lima]

Remember guys, don't take Mongolia

Well, I took only Taiwan from China and the world is alive (except for my task force in the death loop of course). It seems that Mongolia and Kamchatka are connected. I think that Kamchatka's home port is located in Mongolia. It would be complete heresy to do anything with this sacred territory. Forgive me Kamchatka, I was such a fool.