Liq Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 10 minutes ago, Archaos said: The proof is that HAVOC owned San Juan when they were Danish and when the clan moved to Sweden they left some clan members in Danish nation and removed all the other Danish clans from friend list. If the whole clan had moved then the port would have turned neutral. They claim that there were some players who were not playing that were still in Danish nation, but this does not cover the fact that there was a deliberate removal of clans from the friend list to prevent any sort of defense of the port. It is not exactly the same as the Truxillo incident, but is just as much an abuse of the game mechanics. You claim an alt was used at Truxillo, but what defines them as an alt? Would you say the Truxillo incident would have been okay if a player without an alt from BASTD clan had used forged papers to move to Sweden and raised hostility? You can see the similarity between the cases, in both not all the clan has changed nation and others were prevented from either attacking or defending a port by abuse of the game mechanics. it would have been OK if BASTD actually changed to Sweden, but as you know they (you) did not 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archaos Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 7 minutes ago, Liq💋 said: it would have been OK if BASTD actually changed to Sweden, but as you know they (you) did not Same as San Juan would have been okay if all of HAVOC had changed to Sweden and the port had gone neutral before they recaptured it. But they could not risk that happening in case someone else took the port. The game mechanics in both cases were used to ensure the port went to who they wanted it to go to and both cases are an abuse of the game mechanics no matter how you try and justify it. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liq Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 5 minutes ago, Archaos said: Same as San Juan would have been okay if all of HAVOC had changed to Sweden and the port had gone neutral before they recaptured it. But they could not risk that happening in case someone else took the port. The game mechanics in both cases were used to ensure the port went to who they wanted it to go to and both cases are an abuse of the game mechanics no matter how you try and justify it. gonna have to agree to disagree 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archaos Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 4 minutes ago, Liq💋 said: gonna have to agree to disagree At least I know I was not involved in either abuse of the mechanics, where as you as a member of HAVOC have to try and defend what happened at San Juan. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liq Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 Just now, Archaos said: what happened at San Juan. HAVOC kept a HAVOC port is what happened. All clan members except inactives moved nations within a week or two. Whereas BASTD kept a BASTD port, while staying in the original nation and only ever have 1 alt account in the new nation. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archaos Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 8 minutes ago, Liq💋 said: HAVOC kept a HAVOC port is what happened. All clan members except inactives moved nations within a week or two. Whereas BASTD kept a BASTD port, while staying in the original nation and only ever have 1 alt account in the new nation. But when you change nation you cannot take a port with you, you have to move all your stuff to free towns and you lose all your buildings when you change nation. So how did HAVOC manage to keep San Juan in this case? They abused the game mechanics to prevent other Danish clans the ability to defend the port. Your whole argument for it being different seems to be because you think it was done by a person with more than one account (e.g. an alt), but conveniently forget that the same abuse can be done without using alts, but using a friend in another nation or as in the case of San Juan, leaving some clan members in the nation till you have secured the port. The simple fact is that you knew the Danes could not defend the port because you had taken steps to ensure they could not by abusing the game mechanics. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liq Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Archaos said: But when you change nation you cannot take a port with you, you have to move all your stuff to free towns and you lose all your buildings when you change nation. So how did HAVOC manage to keep San Juan in this case? They abused the game mechanics to prevent other Danish clans the ability to defend the port. Your whole argument for it being different seems to be because you think it was done by a person with more than one account (e.g. an alt), but conveniently forget that the same abuse can be done without using alts, but using a friend in another nation or as in the case of San Juan, leaving some clan members in the nation till you have secured the port. The simple fact is that you knew the Danes could not defend the port because you had taken steps to ensure they could not by abusing the game mechanics. In this scenario, Danmark had the chance to go for San Juan and re take it if they wanted to. Yet they have never gone for San Juan since they lost it. Not a single time. But why? Also, why didn't they defend the other ports surrounding San Juan, belonging to other clans than HAVOC? Whereas the alt-handover of Truxillo left the Swedes without a chance to capture it. You're kidding yourself if you're thinking DK actually had the capabilities of defending a 25 x 1st rate port at that time. In fact, they still do not, else they surely would have gone after SJ. Edited February 21, 2020 by Liq💋 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archaos Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 1 hour ago, Liq💋 said: Whereas the alt-handover of Truxillo left the Swedes without a chance to capture it. Why would Swedes want to capture a Swedish port? What you are saying is like saying that Denmark should have been able to capture San Juan from HAVOC before you switched nation to Sweden. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
van Veen Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, Liq💋 said: it would have been OK if BASTD actually changed to Sweden, but as you know they (you) did not What you are saying is that there are acceptable motivations for alt clan abuse and non-acceptable ones. This is your point of view on the San Juan matter, but you have to admit that it's a rather selective point of view. I'm pretty sure that Danish clans have a slightly different opinion on that. Anyway, it should not matter why someone abuses alts, because then Ink would have to judge the motivations and intentions on a case-by-case basis. Everyone could just claim he was abusing alts for any given noble reason (like you suggested: I wanted to move nation, but reconsidered a little later... you know... for reasons...). You can hardly prove anyone wrong on this one, because the intentions are not clear from the server log. I understand you do not want to be the bad guy, but please stop claiming the moral high ground in this matter. A lot of people disagree with you on that matter anyway and you can't make proper server rules on this basis. Edited February 21, 2020 by van Veen 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liq Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 1 hour ago, van Veen said: I understand you do not want to be the bad guy, but please stop claiming the moral high ground in this matter. A lot of people disagree with you on that matter anyway and you can't make proper server rules on this basis. Just defending myself to what BS is being brought up regarding SJ, whereas trux was clearly alt abused we shall see what the admins decide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archaos Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 19 minutes ago, Liq💋 said: Just defending myself to what BS is being brought up regarding SJ, whereas trux was clearly alt abused we shall see what the admins decide. It is quite clear that the Admins do not have an easy solution to the San Juan issue and this is why they choose to ignore it and not comment either way about it. This has been their standard response when there is no easy solution. They may be looking at ways to solve it but will not acknowledge the problem till they have a solution. Whereas for the Truxillo case they feel they have a solution. If you note they never commented in the original tribunal thread about Truxillo till this thread where they proposed a solution. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shunt Posted February 22, 2020 Share Posted February 22, 2020 (edited) 18 hours ago, Liq said: Just defending myself to what BS is being brought up regarding SJ, whereas trux was clearly alt abused we shall see what the admins decide. what amazing hypocrisy CRC is a swedish clan ,,, trux would have belonged to sweden ,,, your actually claiming its abuse that a swedish clan capturing trux stopped a swedish clan capturing trux yet in your eyes its ok for Havoc to switch from dane to sweden and prevent danes defending in port battle the only people that have a right to be upset by trux is GB same as danes should be upset by sj they are both exactly the same Edited February 22, 2020 by shunt 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liq Posted February 22, 2020 Share Posted February 22, 2020 11 minutes ago, shunt said: same as danes should be upset by sj Why are danes not going for San Juan now? They have had the opportunity to do so since it turned swedish. Nope, not the same Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark123 Posted February 22, 2020 Share Posted February 22, 2020 Just now, Liq said: Why are danes not going for San Juan now? They have had the opportunity to do so since it turned swedish. Nope, not the same its the same Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liq Posted February 22, 2020 Share Posted February 22, 2020 1 minute ago, Dark123 said: its the same 2 minutes ago, Liq said: Why are danes not going for San Juan now? They have had the opportunity to do so since it turned swedish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genevieve Malfleurs Posted February 22, 2020 Share Posted February 22, 2020 1 minute ago, Liq said: Why are danes not going for San Juan now? They have had the opportunity to do so since it turned swedish. Nope, not the same You can stop moral-washing now. Havoc-style is as dirty as any. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liq Posted February 22, 2020 Share Posted February 22, 2020 Just now, Genevieve Malfleurs said: You can stop moral-washing now. Havoc-style is as dirty as any. Answer my question? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark123 Posted February 22, 2020 Share Posted February 22, 2020 Just now, Genevieve Malfleurs said: You can stop moral-washing now. Havoc-style is as dirty as any. agree and they are better in whining Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liq Posted February 22, 2020 Share Posted February 22, 2020 😂 quality trolls Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genevieve Malfleurs Posted February 22, 2020 Share Posted February 22, 2020 1 minute ago, Liq said: 😂 quality trolls a good player like you makes himself a fool here! why?? yes, we did a little alt-abuse like you call it. but would never pull it through. that's why we let it become neutral immediately. just to see you storm in like mad bloodhounds. against Ai.... Again 😋 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liq Posted February 22, 2020 Share Posted February 22, 2020 Just now, Genevieve Malfleurs said: a good player like you makes himself a fool here! why?? yes, we did a little alt-abuse like you call it. but would never pull it through. that's why we let it become neutral immediately. just to see you storm in like mad bloodhounds. against Ai.... Again 😋 still not answered my question 😃 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genevieve Malfleurs Posted February 22, 2020 Share Posted February 22, 2020 10 minutes ago, Liq said: still not answered my question 😃 lame reaction. you asked me sth?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark123 Posted February 22, 2020 Share Posted February 22, 2020 @Liq everything was wrong from havoc example:: you live with 4 friends in a apartment in Denmark and you bought everything together. (TV,Kitchen etc.) after 1 year your mum (rediii) is calling. you have to come home to Sweden. you take all the stuff with you and your old friends have nothing left! do you think that's ok? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liq Posted February 22, 2020 Share Posted February 22, 2020 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Dark123 said: @Liq everything was wrong from havoc example:: you live with 4 friends in a apartment in Denmark and you bought everything together. (TV,Kitchen etc.) after 1 year your mum (rediii) is calling. you have to come home to Sweden. you take all the stuff with you and your old friends have nothing left! do you think that's ok? terrible example This is a war game. DK had (or still has)the option to re grab what they lost. Yet they did not. Do you really think they could (or can) fill a 25 x 1st rate PB? Edited February 22, 2020 by Liq Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark123 Posted February 22, 2020 Share Posted February 22, 2020 Just now, Liq said: terrible example This is a war game. DK had (or still has) to re grab what they lost. Yet they did not. Do you really think they could (or can) fill a 25 x 1st rate PB? no thgey cant 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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