>>>Combat Feedback<<<

[Nick Thomadis]

Here you can share your feedback exclusively regarding the naval combat aspect of the game.

[Fleet_Of_Oceans]

Underwater torpedo tubes never seem to launch any torpedoes, am I doing something wrong?

[Nick Thomadis]

9 minutes ago, Fleet_Of_Oceans said:

Underwater torpedo tubes never seem to launch any torpedoes, am I doing something wrong?

Underwater torpedo tubes have limited fire arc. Make sure to align your ship to the side of your active torpedo tubes (not destroyed by enemy hits).
You can click the icon of torpedo tubes to check their position on ship.

[akd]

You may also need to get closer or loosen up the torpedo fire control to “aggressive.”  Being within max range is seldom sufficient for the AI to take a shot otherwise.

[fremen]

Only graphic glitch:

The ship's flag fly where the wind blows, like in a sailing ship. This seems some strange in torpedo boats at full speed.

Combat problem:

Just pick the mission when use a battleship against three torpedo boats. After around ten minutes, left one of the torpedo boats dead in the water (some serious machinery damage). Change fire against the other enemy ships. The battle continue until those ships are dead and sunk. Then noticed no sight the first one, and was unable to find it. 

May be would be great a map...?

 

[Wurstsalat]

High Caliber 11"+ AP rounds seem to be very weak compared to HE when used on BBs or even most CAs. AP rounds ricochet a hella lot and have very little damage potential wwhen they actually pen. HE on the otherhand seems to deal moderate ammounts of damage on every hit and is far better to take down Capitals.

[Jatzi]

3 hours ago, Wurstsalat said:

High Caliber 11"+ AP rounds seem to be very weak compared to HE when used on BBs or even most CAs. AP rounds ricochet a hella lot and have very little damage potential wwhen they actually pen. HE on the otherhand seems to deal moderate ammounts of damage on every hit and is far better to take down Capitals.

Well I know during the pre-dread era AP shells weren't super effective against other pre-dreads unless you were super close so maybe you're just seeing that. When the full game is released and you can advance your tech I'm sure AP shells will get more effective. Unless they're under performing more than they should be.

[Orkel]

I definitely feel like armor is too strong at the moment. Partial pens everywhere, even battleships hitting flat broadsides at 2.5km.

[Ginger8910]

When an enemy ship starts sinking any roll or pitch it has stops and the ship snaps upright.

[fremen]

A couple of remarks.

1-Would be great a final battle screen, give you information about sink and damaged ships, and whatever other information useful. 

2-This is not possible had ships of different classes in your fleet? BTW, in the future would it be possible a battle planner when you pick your fleet ship by ship and the enemy fleet? Some kind of editor of battles?

[Orkel]

Also, torpedoes seem somewhat weak. I hit an enemy BC with over seven 22inch torpedoes and they barely did any damage.

[TBRSIM]

Torpedoes are indeed very weak. Going by the "late"modern batleship scenario damage for a single torpedo hit on my battleship does not exceed "30", admittedly with full torpedo protection and lots of armor. Ths is ecessively low. Howevre, torpedoes also hit far too often, this is part of a multifaceted issue:

1) Torpedo damage is to low and there seems to be no flooding caused by torpedo hits

2) Reloadable on deck torpedo tubes are a late 1930's thing a the earliest and even there it is debatable if there ever was a tactical in battle reload capability, in the current game version deck tubes can be reloaded multiple times.

3) Even with late technology secnodaries and tertiares fire individually and in local control with low probability of hit. Range finders, central firing and directors for secodnaries and tertiaries were difnitely a thing though, and for a reason...

4) If the player designates a target for the ship this works for all batteries (primary, secondary and tertiary) if in range, this means one cannot defent with secondaries at close DD's while firing with the main guns at  more distant battleship.

2, 3 and 4 lead to far higher incidence of torpedo hits in battles but 1 means they are of less consequence than a "partially penetrating" 11inch gun hit.

There might also be an issue with ship and torpedo speed, both "feel" high to me, but this could just be an impression.

 

Edited October 5, 2019 by TBRSIM

[fremen]

3 hours ago, Orkel said:

Also, torpedoes seem somewhat weak. I hit an enemy BC with over seven 22inch torpedoes and they barely did any damage.

Same opinion. In the battle of TB against a TR fleet protected by a single CA, hit the enemy cruiser no less TEN torpedoes and not sink. The CA was dead in the water, burning from bow to stern, and with only 12% flotability and in spite of this, destroy all of my TB with their single two 9" guns.

[St0nkingByte]

There is too much 'friendly fire', well not actually friendly fire but just ships on the same side shooting through or over each other. It would be great if we lost the firepower of those ships when they screen/block each other. Also a bit more realistic.

[Jatzi]

So this is a UI thing during combat. When you select a ship, any ship, you get a list of it's weapons right? It doesn't list the amount of those weapons when you hover over it. You get all this info about the weapon except how many there are. The diagram of the ship of course shows the number of weapons but sometimes it can be hard to actually tell how many there are and if they're destroyed or not, especially when they're casemates or just secondaries in general. 

Second, I'm guessing the game isn't well optimized? I have a good laptop with a 1660Ti, 16gb of RAM, an SSD, and it kinda struggles when there are a lot of rounds flying and this is just between two pre-dreads. I lowered the graphics setting which kinda helped but yeah. Another thing, I have to exit the game and restart it to change the graphics. I know that's not related to combat but yeah that's mildly annoying though it's not the end of the world. 

Also in regards to torpedoes, I got hit with two torpedoes during that gun basics 1 mission with a pre-dread vs a light cruiser. With few or minimum bulkheads and no torpedo protection they did a lot of damage. My floatability dropped insanely fast, especially from the second one which hit center mass. I saw on Tortuga's stream his last Yamato-style BB got hit by a ton of torps and they did very little damage. But he also had max bulkheads, torp protection, citadel, triple-bottom hull, all that. Plus it was a 90k ton ship. So that makes sense. Maybe they are under powered but I don't think they're crazy bad

[sulu244]

Guns of the same caliber don't reload independently. If the front turret on a pre-dreadnought fires, then the rear swings into arc, it will wait for the first gun to reload before firing itself. This isn't a big deal for secondaries, but it would be nice to get primaries firing and reloading independently.  

[Orkel]

Another thing I've noticed is the lack of underwater hits. A shell that hits right next to a ship disappears into oblivion, instead of continuing into the hull below the waterline. I'm assuming this is something that will be added in the future as plunging below waterline hits were a thing in reality.

[Nick Thomadis]

On 10/4/2019 at 8:18 PM, fremen said:

Just pick the mission when use a battleship against three torpedo boats. After around ten minutes, left one of the torpedo boats dead in the water (some serious machinery damage). Change fire against the other enemy ships. The battle continue until those ships are dead and sunk. Then noticed no sight the first one, and was unable to find it. 

May be would be great a map...?

A beta overview map is already functional, but we shall offer much later, when other priorities are fulfilled. 

On 10/5/2019 at 1:46 PM, Orkel said:

I definitely feel like armor is too strong at the moment. Partial pens everywhere, even battleships hitting flat broadsides at 2.5km.

In next update, armor penetration is going to receive a slight rebalance.

18 hours ago, Jatzi said:

So this is a UI thing during combat. When you select a ship, any ship, you get a list of it's weapons right? It doesn't list the amount of those weapons when you hover over it. You get all this info about the weapon except how many there are. The diagram of the ship of course shows the number of weapons but sometimes it can be hard to actually tell how many there are and if they're destroyed or not, especially when they're casemates or just secondaries in general. 

This is a temporary UI issue we will solve asap. UI is generally needing several improvements. Thank you for reporting though, to prioritize sooner.

18 hours ago, Jatzi said:

Second, I'm guessing the game isn't well optimized? I have a good laptop with a 1660Ti, 16gb of RAM, an SSD, and it kinda struggles when there are a lot of rounds flying and this is just between two pre-dreads. I lowered the graphics setting which kinda helped but yeah. Another thing, I have to exit the game and restart it to change the graphics. I know that's not related to combat but yeah that's mildly annoying though it's not the end of the world. 

We will further optimize the game performance, in the next update.

11 hours ago, sulu244 said:

Guns of the same caliber don't reload independently. If the front turret on a pre-dreadnought fires, then the rear swings into arc, it will wait for the first gun to reload before firing itself. This isn't a big deal for secondaries, but it would be nice to get primaries firing and reloading independently.  

It is a known issue, that is rather complex to solve and risky. But we will see to improve later. Generally, the guns are pre-configured to fire in a centralized manner, per caliber type.

8 hours ago, Orkel said:

Another thing I've noticed is the lack of underwater hits. A shell that hits right next to a ship disappears into oblivion, instead of continuing into the hull below the waterline. I'm assuming this is something that will be added in the future as plunging below waterline hits were a thing in reality.

You mean, when there is a close hit effect, there is no underwater hit (otherwise there can be several underwater hits, according to angle of shots). We will note to improve in the future.

[Orkel]

13 minutes ago, Nick Thomadis said:

You mean, when there is a close hit effect, there is no underwater hit (otherwise there can be several underwater hits, according to angle of shots). We will note to improve in the future.

Yeah. The shells sometimes hit right next to the ship at the waterline and cause no hits or damage, only a water splash.

Somewhat related - possibility of flat trajectory shells ricocheting off the water surface in a future update? Could be a fun addition.

[Nick Thomadis]

Yes nice, we could also try that, but much later, since everything needs time to develop and we are not a big team

[Nick Thomadis]

On 10/5/2019 at 2:01 PM, Ginger8910 said:

When an enemy ship starts sinking any roll or pitch it has stops and the ship snaps upright.

It is planned to improve. Sink effect is not yet complete.

23 hours ago, TBRSIM said:

Torpedoes are indeed very weak. Going by the "late"modern batleship scenario damage for a single torpedo hit on my battleship does not exceed "30", admittedly with full torpedo protection and lots of armor. Ths is ecessively low. Howevre, torpedoes also hit far too often, this is part of a multifaceted issue:

Torpedo damage is going to be improved in next update. Specifically, the damage according to torpedo diamater is going to be increased significantly, so that late torpedoes will be devastating without appropriate torpedo protection.

[TBRSIM]

2 hours ago, Nick Thomadis said:

It is planned to improve. Sink effect is not yet complete.

Torpedo damage is going to be improved in next update. Specifically, the damage according to torpedo diamater is going to be increased significantly, so that late torpedoes will be devastating without appropriate torpedo protection.

I just played the scenario where the player is supposed to attack a convoy escorted by a CA with DD's. That CA is still floating and fighting after about three dozen or more (36+) 22inch torpedo hits...

For any ship, even an Iowa class BB, 12+ heavy "late" torpedo hits (even contact fused) would be "the end". AFAIK there is no historic evidence of any warship surviving more than three torpedo hits.

That written, without a redo of how secondaries work against close-in DD/TB the balance could well tip too far in the other direction when torpedo damage is increased. Because the other lesson from the above scenario is that my DD's do not receive enough hits for minutes spent within 1km from the AC...

[TBRSIM]

There might be an issue with the "cell" nature of the damage model where destroyed elements (guns, hull/armor parts, funnels etc.) "block" damage from other "cells" and act as armor...

[TBRSIM]

One very important reinforcement of a statement in one of the previous posts, since I played some more naval academy scenarios:

Ditch visual "detection range" and "spotting bonus" balancing! It is ludicrous for ships to have thousands of metres disadvantage in visual sighting versus others due to "technology". Have you ever been at sea? In clear weather you can litterally see to the visual horizon (which depends on your eye height). While there were (and are) some advantages to higher masts for visual detecting ships their main purpose within game timeframe was spotting fall of shot. Any "sighting advantage" is at most for initial detection, in general, if one ship could see another in daytime it could be seen in turn. Mast tops etc. are quite visible, especially if you have smoke (including gunsmoke) and gunfire noise to give you a cue and bearing to search. The differences in bad visual conditions (rain, fog, night) are more a matter of training than design of the ships, with a minor excetion for small DD/TB.

The current visual detection mechanism is one major element in retarding the major potential of thius game to "arcade" status. Mast design could represent additional fire control capability and things like easier estimation of contact course, quicker identification etc. and result in boni on identification speed and hit chance if you want to play with stats.

The one exception where major differences in vice versa detection range can exist within game timeframe (barely) is radar, once that is available it may become a one-sided detection capability at night and in bad visual conditions for the side which has it against the one which does not have it.

Edited October 6, 2019 by TBRSIM

[Skeksis]

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Edited November 9, 2021 by Skeksis