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>>>Combat Feedback<<<


Nick Thomadis

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On 10/13/2019 at 10:43 PM, Nick Thomadis said:

We have armor thickness and quality. Quality increases the effect by the indicated percentage. For example the composite 10 inches armor +100% quality is equal to 20 inches of iron plate armor.

Thanks for the explanation. Could it be an idea to have a setting in the game to compensate the player specified armor thickness in the ship designer be depended on the armor technology used?

For example: normal (100%) armor 10 inches == 10 inches. 

Improved armor (200%) 10 inches == 20 inches.

So, if you now specify going from normal to improved armor, this effectively halves the weight and cost. 

In other words could the setting be do that the inches specified are always effective armor thickness levels?

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51 minutes ago, Tycondero said:

Thanks for the explanation. Could it be an idea to have a setting in the game to compensate the player specified armor thickness in the ship designer be depended on the armor technology used?

For example: normal (100%) armor 10 inches == 10 inches. 

Improved armor (200%) 10 inches == 20 inches.

So, if you now specify going from normal to improved armor, this effectively halves the weight and cost. 

In other words could the setting be do that the inches specified are always effective armor thickness levels?

I doubt that would be an option; issue being ships record their armour as a thickness, not as an effective thickness, for example in game, an early Battlecruiser with 6 inches of Krupp armour would be as effective as 9 inches of iron plate, compound or even Harvey armour on an 1890s pre-dreadnought like the Majestic class, but historically both would state their thickness, not their effective armour, otherwise the earlier ironclad battleships with 18 inches of iron armour would have stated their effective armour was 9-12 inches.

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I'm a bit confused how the big guns work in the game. I know bigger caliber guns have a longer range and more power, but how do you make them more accurate and effective. I've been doing the WIP dreadnought mission and ether my guns cripple the battleships, but they won't sink or whenever I try to move in closer t increase my accuracy, the enemy does a huge amount of damage to my ship.

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1 hour ago, Shaun said:

I doubt that would be an option; issue being ships record their armour as a thickness, not as an effective thickness, for example in game, an early Battlecruiser with 6 inches of Krupp armour would be as effective as 9 inches of iron plate, compound or even Harvey armour on an 1890s pre-dreadnought like the Majestic class, but historically both would state their thickness, not their effective armour, otherwise the earlier ironclad battleships with 18 inches of iron armour would have stated their effective armour was 9-12 inches.

Especially since effective thickness could vary alot depending on quality control on both ends of the combat, whereas actual thickness doesn't tend to do that.

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Is it just me or are small gun basically useless atm?

I was trying different things in the dds vs torp boat mission. But for the live of me the dds are not able to do much dmg vs the torp boats with their guns.

I did try to maximise the dds stability and did try the 4" as well 5" guns (no mixing) with gun focus on the mission. I got pitch down to about 8 and only 0.8 roll. The best i manged to get was about 12% hit ration in battle (form about 45% base) vs torp boats. But even with lyddite II and super heavy shells my dds do almost no dmg to the tb, while the enemy CAs pick my dds a part.

Sofar it looks like you have to have a good rng BB build to take apart the Tbs and hope for some lucky torp hits on the Tbs. 

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4-5" are pretty effective in my games.  They tear up TR, TB, and DD fairly well.  Against me, they tend to do pretty well too, like the BB v TB, my Christmas Tree lights up from all the 2-4" hits I'm taking from the TB's main gun(s). (Even against 12" belt/conning/turret, 4" deck/sec)

The two biggest things you can do to increase accuracy is to SLOW DOWN from flank, putting your speed on/in the minute square on the speed bar (where the speed setting should be from the start) will increase your accuracy 20-25%.  The next thing is to don't get TOO CLOSE, target speed penalty is RELATIVE and the closer you get the more APPARENT it becomes, if your relative speed is faster than your weapons traverse speed, well you ain't hitting anything.

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5 hours ago, Niomedes said:

Especially since effective thickness could vary alot depending on quality control on both ends of the combat, whereas actual thickness doesn't tend to do that.

It is more that for instance gun penetration values do not take effective armor thickness into account. I just want a way to compare gun penetration values and how much armor I would need to counter.

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Range Finding.

Is there anyway the game could develop some sort of manual range finding, player range finding. That is to improve accuracy on the fly, during combat. Some sort of micromanagement to zero-in on targets at long ranges.  

Just looking for more things to do while in combat, watching the AIs battle it out I find my using the x5 time button alot. Some sort of manual range finding could keep players buzzy (have no idea what that could look like). 

 

PS, Actually, just thought of something, in another thread binoculars were mention but what if instead this could be change to "coincidence range-finding". A player would switch into this visual mode, mark the target and improve accuracy by 10% etc.  

 

Edited by Skeksis
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Not sure what that would accomplish, and there would need to be a trade-off between RoF and accuracy while finding the range.  Besides the cursor does auto-rangefinding for you, along with chance to hit and penetrate for your mains...

Manuevering the ships should be the primary concern of the fleet.  Dictating targets would be secondary (and designating targets or "scripts" for engagements would be nice) but using a range finder/ range keeper only makes sense if one has a single ship.  At that point might as well put in a bridge view and take away bird's eye view to begin with...

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5 hours ago, Pedroig said:

Not sure what that would accomplish, and there would need to be a trade-off between RoF and accuracy while finding the range.  Besides the cursor does auto-rangefinding for you, along with chance to hit and penetrate for your mains...

Manuevering the ships should be the primary concern of the fleet.  Dictating targets would be secondary (and designating targets or "scripts" for engagements would be nice) but using a range finder/ range keeper only makes sense if one has a single ship.  At that point might as well put in a bridge view and take away bird's eye view to begin with...

I’m finding there’s a reasonable amount of downtime in only setting the ship/fleet course and singular targets. So I’m advocating some micromanagement, have the default as auto-management for play styles like yourself but include or overlay some micromanagement elements to make the game abit more active for others.

The range cursor doesn’t do anything, can’t assign that info to anything (or have I missed something).

 

Edited by Skeksis
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Give the player ship the right of way.  I just came from a battle where, no matter how hard I tried, I could not get my CA close to an enemy BB for a torpedo run.  I started to turn to intercept the enemy ship, and spent the next 10 minutes watching my ship turn first one way, and then another, avoiding the swarm of allied ships in my flotilla.  By the time I had gotten on the course I wanted, the enemy BB was nearly 4 km away.  During all that lost time, the enemy was turning my fleet into a turkey shoot.  I had no sooner gotten onto a pursuit course for the BB, when another of my CA's cut in front of me and off I veered again.  I just quit the match in frustration.

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Hiyo fellows captitans,

After for near a week now playing the game  UA:D I am very happy with the game thus far (despite the issue of the game crashing when feet vs fleet).

The few major changes I would reccomend to implement in the future is:

Significantly lower the RNG misses when at point blank range as ships tend to miss a lot at 500 meters and less. Its funny when a gun points directly at an enemy and the shell somhow flys off to the side.

Different options for torpedo settings, an example being launching torpedoes 2 seconds adfter eachother or setting torpedo spread.

Underwater hits. Though they will be a nuissance to implement it did happen in a lot of naval engagements. Some just 'bumping' off the sides of a ship due to inertia loss or some going straight through the torpedo protection causing flooding.

Shells bouncing off the water. Another system that could be added.

Bare in mind shells underwater striking and bouncing off the water would be dependant on the shell characteristics. being fired from either long or short range.

Accuracy greatly increaesed due to ship shape. A more stable gun platform should be able to shoot more accuratly than a destroyer.or torpedo baot. In general this was the case for many ships. Especially when a storm rolls in.

--------------------------------------------------------------

Will be back later on...



 

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this is the place for suggestions for combat right?

I think it would be really cool if you could set Shell type (HE/AP) and target, or maybe target type parameters or something, for each type/group of guns on your ship

maybe also some sort of "stay at this range" engagement rules.

Id love to see some more implementation of crew mechanics and even graphically seeing an "alive" ship, maybe even some sort of boarding actions|

And definitely Ramming a big BB would get a TB in half, while taking damage herself probably, but still Ramming

 

Edited by JACK5225
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I realy enjoy shipbuilder but сombat sometimes causes frustration.  The first is how the division operates. Ships do not hold the formation, they crash into each other, most of them cannot reach their own maximum speed, torpedo boats shoot out with battleships from two-inch cannons, the flagship jumps from one ship to another. This is not good, I'm serious, it is inconvenient and clumsy. It is not surprising that most players on the streams, build a super dreadnought, not a fleet of ships of a lower rank - managing one boob is easier than a herd of boobies.

Second,  secondary batteries. From 2 inches to 5, these are mainly weapons against torpedo boats. But the best way to destroy TB is shoot them 8 inch guns and above. For some reason, they hit the target far more often than 2-5 inch gun. I was twice building a battleship  with a lot of quick-firing guns 4 (1 time) or 5 (second) inch and few 9 inch cannons as main guns. Both times ended the same - AI TB ate my BB alive. Only when all guns on battleship less than 6 '' was gone and main battery was pair 2x12 , I completed this mission. I test in "Speed basic 2" with LC full of 4''  and  this bunch of guns did nothing. And yes my LC was faster when test destroyer so the distance was far from the maximum.

Now, the main guns. It's some kind... of magic, I suppose? For example, I have a typical heavy ship with two turrets at the bow and one at the stern. Ship goes to the enemy, opens fire, the turrets in front shoot, the rear turret is silent, that's OK. Then the ship turns round to add fire from the aft turret and auxiliary batteries. This is where the magic begins. The stern battery is aimed at the enemy, but does not shoot. Okay, there was a rumor that all the big guns were recharging at the same time. But here, despite the fact that the reload indicator of the main caliber is far from ready to fire, one of the bow turret shoots. Again. Did the crew from the stern turret run into the bow turret? After a while, the aft turret starts firing, then it fires and one of the bow turrets, but only one, although recently both turrets  on the bow fired simultaneously.

Another fun moment with the main guns is their incredible accuracy in the accelerated time mode. Without acceleration, you can bring a bunch of destroyers  close to the battleship almost untouched but just try to turn on the acceleration of time and this same BB will cover your tincans if not with a second salvo, so the fifth is almost certain.

On 10/15/2019 at 2:33 PM, balticsailor said:

Is it just me or are small gun basically useless atm?

I was trying different things in the dds vs torp boat mission. But for the live of me the dds are not able to do much dmg vs the torp boats with their guns.

I had similar experience. I not use cannons less then 6'' now.

 

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I am pretty TRIGGERED right now.

Look at this screenshot. Its a 4 inch heavy shell passing right the ship on the left as if it were a ghost! You can see the trail of the shell passing through the TB's bow.
My ships are are targeting the ship to the right. These two TB's collided with eachother and that boat on the left got hit so many times but the hits did not count for some reason, they just pass right through.

So if you miss your shot and hit another ship it will not count as an actual hit. I need to record this next time I see it happen.

Also this mission, does anyoe get the feeling its designed to frustrate everyone. I set it to enhance guns and fach of those 3 destroyers have ELEVEN guns. That is a  ridiculous amount of misses at such a short range of just 2.9km.

Also the CA's seem to have better armour and accuracy than any of my ships. (Even the BB has difficulty fighting them)

Another major big problem is that because there is no underwater hits when a TB starts to sink and its below the water for a brief moment a shell could hit above it and do NOTHING.

PLEASE FIX THIS.

 

 

Edited by G777GUN
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4 hours ago, TAKTCOM said:

Second,  secondary batteries. From 2 inches to 5, these are mainly weapons against torpedo boats. But the best way to destroy TB is shoot them 8 inch guns and above. For some reason, they hit the target far more often than 2-5 inch gun. I was twice building a battleship  with a lot of quick-firing guns 4 (1 time) or 5 (second) inch and few 9 inch cannons as main guns. Both times ended the same - AI TB ate my BB alive. Only when all guns on battleship less than 6 '' was gone and main battery was pair 2x12

I have noticed the same thing. I have been stuck on this mission called DD's Vs TB's for three days now. Have to look after a BB and kill all ten TB's and 70% of their CA's.

Pretty much meaning you have to kill off the entire enemy fleet. :P Which is SOOOO FUN. I AM HAVING SO MUCH FUNNNNNNN.

 

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How can you complete the WIP Dreadnought mission. I've tried ships with a bunch of 14 inch guns, a fast dreadnought with 12 inch guns as well as many different combinations, Close combat and long distance combat. However no matter what options I chose or what weapons I have, the mission is completely impossible unless I'm very lucky.

 

Even when I bombard with pre-dreadnoughts with AP and HE shells, they can apparently take like a hundred hits before they eventually sink because pre dreadnoughts were well know for their strong armor.

I honestly have now idea how to use my guns effectively. The game gives no hints and trying to figure it out is frustrating. I was able to figure other issues I has like customizing ships and using torpedo tubes. But this is a different situation and is causing my more frustration.

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Are you considering adding special shell ammo types? Such as Semi-Armor piercing (SAP), Base fused HE shells,  Common shells, special common shells, and Diving shells? I think adding these would give the designer that last little bit of customization it needs. 

 

Also, I think adding a aiming point selector for battle would be nice, let me explain, 

In the game Silent hunter, you were able to tell the gunners of your ship to aim for certain points/areas of a ship, I.E Aim for the water line, or aim for bridge, or aim for the weapons, etc I think adding this in would greatly benefit combat, as it would make so that smaller guns won't just be trying to uselessly hose down a BBs belt armor but instead can be told to aim for less armored superstructure of a ship  

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First let me say, "THANK  YOU!" to all those involved in creating this game.

It has me drooling from...well, lack of sleep for one, but also in anticipation of the completed master-piece.

TL/DR: But, if nobody has suggested this, (and, you may already be working on it.),  a "Follow" button that will keep the camera with the currently selected ship until the player clicks on something else. Just my thoughts. [fixed]

This might have something to do with the learning curve, as it took me a few tries to kill a non-moving metal-block. :)

Thanks again.

Edited by Otter Admiral
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5 hours ago, imeoin01 said:

How can you complete the WIP Dreadnought mission. I've tried ships with a bunch of 14 inch guns, a fast dreadnought with 12 inch guns as well as many different combinations, Close combat and long distance combat. However no matter what options I chose or what weapons I have, the mission is completely impossible unless I'm very lucky.

Try build this for WIP Dreadnaught (its good against convoys too):

screen_1920x1080_2019-10-14_17-09-05.thumb.png.122bc28a63a63f0d5536b111ac6f0b1c.png

For some reason the text is red plz ignore that.

6 x 14 inch guns. and 4 x 8 inch guns

I cant remember what the stats where so I made a modern version and gave it the best of everything.
It was somthing like 12 inch belt and 6 inch face turrets for main guns.

Try to make the enemy chase you and get those cruisers away from the BB's.  BB's are priority targets to kill. Kill them and its bye bye the rest. Use superheavy shells and always AP.

Use best armour too as to make the big boy as weight saving as possible for more armour in places.

Hope it helps. Below image is finishing off cruisers in WIP Dreadnaughts after destroying both BB's and both CA's. I dont mind sharing designs.


screen_1920x1080_2019-10-17_05-11-48.thumb.png.c805d0a96de22187d6ef06a6ff25d497.png



 

Edited by G777GUN
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5 hours ago, Tisx said:

In the game Silent hunter, you were able to tell the gunners of your ship to aim for certain points/areas of a ship, I.E Aim for the water line, or aim for bridge, or aim for the weapons, etc I think adding this in would greatly benefit combat, as it would make so that smaller guns won't just be trying to uselessly hose down a BBs belt armor but instead can be told to aim for less armored superstructure of a ship  

YES. That would be good to have. I miss the Silent Hunter days.

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1 hour ago, Otter Admiral said:

However, in the scenario where I have to build a BB to fend off 3 destroyers...It doesn't matter what setup I use, we just blaze away at each other until the timer runs out. I literally shout for joy after 15 mins when one of my 40 guns lands a barely penetrated hit...on the destroyer "escort" that has been abeam of me at spitting distance for the entire time.


Is that the Battleship vs Torpedo Boat mission?

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6 hours ago, imeoin01 said:

How can you complete the WIP Dreadnought mission.

This mission about firepower AND survivability. So my third and successful attempt was 20 knots,  4x3x13'' with heavy shells, no secondares. I don’t remember how thick the armor was, but it provided 100% protection from 10 inches and lower at almost all distances except pistol. At the end of the battle, the ship turned into ruins, so the money spent on additional bulkheads, advanced repairs and flood control tools were also useful. Damn, I would even take anti-torpedo protection, AI capital ships are usually hung with underwater torpedo tubes. As a result, I got something like this, but with a lot of armor.

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