Group kill "Mission Impossible"???

[Koltes]

Im fkn scared of this AI lol 😂

I mean what the heck are these missions? 3 players allowed max on 4th rate. 
When we get in there are x4 4th rates and x1 3rd rate. Almost double the BR.

Considering what AI is doing right now is it actually doable?? I mean how hard does it needs to be? Its a grind already. Now its an impossible grind

Maybe keep limit of ships rank, but allow 10 players in?

Edited July 3, 2019 by koltes

[Koltes]

4 minutes ago, rediii said:

did some of the smaller ones too already but didnt record

 

Yeah we can do it, but dude this is still insanely hard. 3 times more BR for the buffed up AI. They all feel like Raid Main Bosses from WOW lol.
There are probably only handful of people on the server who can do these missions.
They want to make hunting newbs impossible, while those same newbs cant even do the missions there lol 

Maybe there are all the other reasons why these newbs leave? 🤨

Edited July 3, 2019 by koltes

[mikawa]

2 hours ago, rediii said:

Yea there should be easier ones too actually 

Same for AI fights in general: they are too hard, you can't fight a ship in same class properly and this has nothing to do with skill but only depends on the insane damage the AI ships make. For elite AI its okay but not for standard AI. Exept of course captured AI ships would get some bonuses or special loot worth fighting for ...

[Tom Farseer]

12 minutes ago, mikawa said:

you can't fight a ship in same class properly and this has nothing to do with skill

I hate to be that guy, but yes: it absolutely depends on skill.

Not PvP related skills neccessarily, but the AI still as predictable as ever and always follows the same patterns. The crazy angles at which AI can shoot seem to have been fixed since yesterday. And apart from that I see no problem with fighting AI ship in the same class or even one class higher for that matter.

Remember:
You can repair, the AI cannot. You can choose to hold your fire until you get a good angle where your shots do not bounce off the enemies hull. The AI will always shoot immediately, even if it means zero shots penetrating your armor. They could have another 50% HP buff and it would not make the battles any harder. It would just make them take longer.

[Guest]

58 minutes ago, Tom Farseer said:

The AI will always shoot immediately, even if it means zero shots penetrating your armor

The thing is that AI almost penetrates all the time independent from the angle. Or has this changed too?

[Tom Farseer]

It doesn't. It just doesn't. The sweet spot has narrowed a bit on the newer damage model but it is still possible to bounce over 80% of shots on a broadside even when in a ship of a lesser rate.
One thing I have come to notice when wondering why my shots would ricochet or the enemies wouldn't was that judging angles in the 3D environment can be very tricky and unreliable. If you really want to learn good angling and positioning, use your map a lot.

Edit: Angles where bouncing still works best are between 50° and 70° I'd say. Anything more and you just get raking damage, anything less and your armor gets penned.

Edited July 3, 2019 by Tom Farseer

[Koltes]

30 minutes ago, Tom Farseer said:

It doesn't. It just doesn't. The sweet spot has narrowed a bit on the newer damage model but it is still possible to bounce over 80% of shots on a broadside even when in a ship of a lesser rate.
One thing I have come to notice when wondering why my shots would ricochet or the enemies wouldn't was that judging angles in the 3D environment can be very tricky and unreliable. If you really want to learn good angling and positioning, use your map a lot.

Edit: Angles where bouncing still works best are between 50° and 70° I'd say. Anything more and you just get raking damage, anything less and your armor gets penned.

Thats fine but my point is they complaining about newbs being hunted but lets for a second imagine actually being new and inexperienced. Players killing them outside capital. Upsetting? Maybe but not everyone. This kinda is understandable by most players who start on pvp server. But then what ELSE is there left for the new guy to do? Passenger delivery missions? Ok big deal - 40 hours week sailing. What else? He gets to cargo delivery missions? Oh wow, “same egg just from different viewing angle”.

What is there for the new guy to hold on to? This game is about fighting. So eventually he will want to fight SOMETHING. Are we really sure that new guy will have an easy time killing AI? Ive met few actual newbs outside KPR (some of which ive let go btw) and they all complained loosing ships to AI.

Missions? They gonna have just as hard time doing missions. Get sunk newb!

Then back to deliveries! Repeat this circle couple more times and goodbye newb. No wonder they dont go above brig

Put AI on previous damage dealing “incapability” just give it more HP and it will be fine. Grinding 1 middle level is fkn nightmare for those who have to work for living

Edited July 3, 2019 by koltes

[Angus MacDuff]

As I said on another thread, there needs to be achievable kills for less experienced players.  Koltes is correct that there is nothing for a new player to do except die.  Not great for retention.  This forum demanded more challenging fights against AI and that is what Devs delivered, but I think we have lost sight of the player progression aspect.  When I joined this game there were missions rated by rank and it was a good thing.  If you wanted an easier fight (and sometimes you do), you could take a lower rated mission.  This game can't be just for the top tier. 

[Tom Farseer]

10 minutes ago, koltes said:

Thats fine but my point is they complaining about newbs being hunted but lets for a second imagine actually being new and inexperienced. Players killing them outside capital. Upsetting? Maybe but not everyone. This kinda is understandable by most players who start on pvp server. But then what ELSE is there left for the new guy to do? Passenger delivery missions? Ok big deal - 40 hours week sailing. What else? He gets to cargo delivery missions? Oh wow, “same egg just from different viewing angle”.

What is there for the new guy to hold on to? This game is about fighting. So eventually he will want to fight SOMETHING. Are we really sure that new guy will have an easy time killing AI? Ive met few actual newbs outside KPR (some of which ive let go btw) and they all complained loosing ships to AI.

Missions? They gonna have just as hard time doing missions. Get sunk newb!

Then back to deliveries! Repeat this circle couple more times and goodbye newb. No wonder they dont go above brig

Put AI on previous damage dealing “incapability” just give it more HP and it will be fine. Grinding 1 middle level is fkn nightmare for those who have to work for living

I completely wholeheartedly agree with that. There absolutely should be easiert to kill AI for the lowest ranks, so that they can get their bearings. To be honest though, what probably stops most newbies from growing is the lack of in-depth information. The basic tutorials are just that. Basics. Stuff like the above-mentioned angling, basic tactics etc is nowhere really explained.
Leaves only those playing who are willing to learn it themselves.

[Norfolk nChance]

I agree with @koltes and in fact most if not all the ideas posted here.

We’ve all commented many times regards nurturing the Newbie and turning him into that Junkie. Instead of clubbed to death early on. The Ranking system needs a complete overall. Rank specific missions with hard AIs aimed at that RANK Level… It needs to be progressive with rewards and tasks with the next higher rank…It’s just a crew hurdle at the moment only NAV.

All players should start on PvE. At Rank4 the game opens PvP access. This allows for Co-Op play missions and getting a feel for the overall game. We are probably one of the few MMOs that actually allow a First time Game launcher to drop into a PvP instance!

Here’s the issue, whether you agree with parts of my suggestions or not they should have happened a year ago. I doubt Game-Labs Dev’s can now code even three levels of AI aggression levels.

Lack of out of game content I agree with @Tom Farseer. Again, suggested over a year ago. Now we/Newbie relies on Yet Another Map and @Wraith new Wiki. This should all be Publisher owned and controlled, not Player driven (with all due respect to Wraith & Felix).

It seems a lot of extra work still needs doing here.

 

Norfolk

[Teutonic]

I don't know the other group missions.

But there are 3 levels of 5th rate ones.

1. A 4th and 4 5ths - doable, hard for newer players

2. 1 3rd, 1 4th, 2 5ths - really hard, never tried because it is not worth.

3. 1 st, 1 3rd - probably impossible, not worth.

The real killer? They all give the same rewards, so it's not worth doing any of them except the 1st one. Even then, it gives silver chests which can be lackluster.

There are others that also seem impossible. 

I think all group missions need a pass at them again and either the rewards need to get better, or the difficulty to come down depending on the type.

[Angus MacDuff]

1 minute ago, Teutonic said:

The real killer? They all give the same rewards, so it's not worth doing any of them except the 1st one. Even then, it gives silver chests which can be lackluster.

The best AI missions are the Search & Destroy.  Kill 5 Surprise's and get CM's and a Gold chest.  It doesn't matter what class of ship you use to kill them and it doesn't matter even if they are AI.  Player manned Surprise's are equally acceptable.  All newer players should be encouraged to run around with as many S&D missions as they can carry.  6th Rate S&D missions give a silver chest, which is pretty good for a New player.  If I am advising a new player, I tell him to carry a 6th rate hunt mission, a bunch of 6th rate S&D missions and leave a few spots open for cargo missions.  (I carry the PVP missions also and complain that there are not enough mission slots!)  The beauty of these missions is that you can actually get credit for 1 kill on 3 missions.  Kill a player on a Surprise and it goes towards your 5th rate PVP, 5th rate Hunt, and Surprise S&D.  I have never done a Kill or Group Kill mission.

[Koltes]

9 minutes ago, Angus MacDuff said:

The best AI missions are the Search & Destroy....

Thats not a mission mate. Its a passive reward for being active in OW.
Mission is when you are given certain area where you go and kill some AI. Its predictable grind. You know how much time it takes and can make a decision if you are gonna do it or not at any given time. Search & Destroy (while probably best option of course) is just that. Go, dont know where. Look for some targets. You may complete in a day. Or may complete in a week. Is it doable? Yeah of course, but how much of my gaming time do I dedicate to that to even remotely call it a grind?
Some say just take it and it will reward you. Then its not a mission. Its a passive "some day" reward

[Angus MacDuff]

2 minutes ago, koltes said:

Some say just take it and it will reward you. Then its not a mission. Its a passive "some day" reward

But you can use it for a very effective grind.  Using the Surprise mission as an example, there are multitudes of AI Surprises between Cuba and Jamaica.  Take the Surprise S&D and the 5th rate Hunt "Missions" and go there in the ship of your choice (using a Herc will give you more XP than an Endy).  Go on a Surprise killing spree and reap the rewards.  You are correct that it is not as predictable as a Kill mission, but it gives far more reward.  In my case, as you have pointed out, it is indeed a passive choice as I don't specifically hunt AI, but it could be.