Return BR Limit variety

[Anolytic]

It is no secret that I and others with me are nostalgic about the good old days of 25v25 1st rate fights. This has two main reasons for me at least. First, with 25v25 1st rates, everything was equal at the start. Ships were equal, numbers were equal. It was all about what happened inside the battle instance, and all about sinking the opponent faster than they could sink you. Sure, we had kiting problems with the 1-circle system, but battles were at least decided on sinking or not sinking your enemy, not on passively acquired points.

Secondly, screening. It took some effort and risk to screen a 25 first rate fleet. Screening 5000 BR port battle fleets is child’s play, and with hopefully 2000+ players after release, screening is going to be a huge issue in RvR when clashes happen between large and small nations.

However, despite my nostalgia, I’m advocating to revise the current Port Battle BRs on the map. For a couple of reasons.

First of all, everything is the same. With deep water ports being only 3 different sizes, 10k, 20k and 25k BR, out of hundreds of ports all over the map there will quickly become only 3 metas. One setup for each of those sizes, with little variety. Once someone finds a meta that works reliably, others will copy it. There will be no surprises, no strategising before PBs, and most importantly no variety. This does put us on a more even playing field in some regards. Some nations have leaders with more or less ability to innovate strategy. But it also takes away a huge element of RvR. An element which I was against when it was introduced, and never really developed a fondness for, but which I still think ads an important dimension to RvR, which should not be overlooked. 

For the purposes of this discussion, I am leaving aside the issue of screening, which is helped somewhat by the new BRs, as well as the fact that planning and organising PBs will now be significantly easier and that DLC-ships will be less of a deciding factor in Deep Water Port Battles.

Speaking strictly about the experience within PB instances, I am advocating for more variety in BRs. 

• As 25v25 1st rate clashes can occur in OW just as well as inside PBs, and there is nothing really special about having 25 1st rates on each side compared to 18 1st rates and a 6 2nd rates, I am suggesting that no Port Battle needs to have a BR limit higher than 20k. Why even have a BR limit on a port if there is so high that 27 1st rates would fit in, even though the instance can only take 25 players.
• This highest BR limit should only be in Regional Capitals, and the largest/most important County Capitals. Most County Capitals should have BR limit between 10k and 18k.
• Non-county Capitals should have an average BR Limit of about 8k, and a span from 4,5k to 12k allowing smaller fleets to take part in RvR for those ports.
• Historically some harbours, like Gustavia or Christiansted, were put under occupation by just a single frigate, but that would equate in-game to undefended port-battles. However, to accommodate participation of smaller fleets, some 5-10% of non-capital PBs should have a BR limit of 4,5-5k BR. Meaning they are small enough for small PB-fleets, without being so small that kiting is a default win option for defenders.
• Most importantly, variety. Instead of every port being X000k BR limit. Creating a limited number of meta PB setups that we will eventually get used to. Having port limits return to limits like 8500BR, and 5340BR, and 12400BR like we had before, will make sure that almost every port battle is fought with a unique fleet composition.

[Socialism]

I'm not sure 25/25 man BR port battles don't have a place in NA.  Maybe the big dog ports like Santa Domingo / Carta / Whatever should be, but the vast majority of ports need to go back to something more manageable.  

Another thought would be the put rate caps on some of the lesser region capitals and bring back all 4th rate rights.  The cost of entry into port battles is currently way too high and smaller clans or nations simply will not be able to compete long term.  Bringing back rate limits would also help minimize this.

[Anolytic]

1 minute ago, Intrepido said:

Next time, think twice before doing proposals (based on your nostalgia) cause the BRs we have now are crap.

Wtf are you talking about?

You previously complained that my OPs are too long and yet you accuse me of not contemplating my proposals enough. 

It seems like you try to imply that the current BRs we have are based on my suggestion, they are not. I have only advocated for removing the absolutely lowest BR limits we had before, because they made it possible for defenders to win by default by kiting, something which I stand by still. Overall, the increased BR limits we have now are a good thing. We cannot design this game for the current playerbase numbers. We have to assume that after release we will have a much higher population, and it should be designed for that, or we might as well declare it DOA right now. For a couple of years now we've had cute little PBs of 5-10 players each side. But after release most PBs should give room to accomodate 15-20 players each side, with a few PBs for smaller groups. In a 2500 player dream Naval Action world a small(tiny) RvR-clan will be the size of the largest RvR-clans we have right now, and the really large ones will reach the 250 player limit and have to create secondary clans like several British clans had to back in 2016.

[Guest]

I suggested a BR mechanic for rvr that would make flexible fleet options where more players would be included because not everyone have a 1st rate and there would be more roles for different ships.

[Barbarosa]

Haha, it is nice to have the luxury to master 25 men's fleets with the best economy.

One fleet to rule them all, one fleet to find them

One fleet to bring them all and in the port battle sink them.

Increasing prerequisites will only serve few.

Making things more accessible is necessary as it happened with Sweden. None had the experience to deal with the mighty Danish fleet of lineships. 4th rate PB's put Sweden back on the table while Danes stop playing because the game becomes broken for them.

We need diversity and less 1st rates.

Edited April 26, 2019 by Barbarosa

[Guest]

21 minutes ago, Intrepido said:

The results are here.

 

We have what you asked for, an increase of the BR.

This game will have the same numbers few months after its release, thanks to all the feedback to make it so hardcore.

lol

[HachiRoku]

2 hours ago, Anolytic said:

Wtf are you talking about?

You previously complained that my OPs are too long and yet you accuse me of not contemplating my proposals enough. 

It seems like you try to imply that the current BRs we have are based on my suggestion, they are not. I have only advocated for removing the absolutely lowest BR limits we had before, because they made it possible for defenders to win by default by kiting, something which I stand by still. Overall, the increased BR limits we have now are a good thing. We cannot design this game for the current playerbase numbers. We have to assume that after release we will have a much higher population, and it should be designed for that, or we might as well declare it DOA right now. For a couple of years now we've had cute little PBs of 5-10 players each side. But after release most PBs should give room to accomodate 15-20 players each side, with a few PBs for smaller groups. In a 2500 player dream Naval Action world a small(tiny) RvR-clan will be the size of the largest RvR-clans we have right now, and the really large ones will reach the 250 player limit and have to create secondary clans like several British clans had to back in 2016.

he did not read your entire thread. It seems clear to me that he didn't

[William Death]

I've always suggested that BR limits shouldn't exist. Every port should default to 25v25. If you (the owning clan) want to have a BR limit, you can pay a daily fee to set your own BR for it (within reason).

 

I had honestly thought that way back when lower BR was announced, along with port timers, that this is how it was going to be implemented. I think it would work well.

[Shocktrooper Basteyy]

I think that we shouldn't have ports over 12k BR. I mean I don't want only 25 1st rate fights. You should be able if you see two fleets to say "this is the port battle fleet and the other one is screning". And np Port Battle under 5k BR because small br ports are boring af.