A Controversial Subject.

[staun]

16 minutes ago, Slim McSauce said:

Except there they were for a while dominating shallows being the only 5th rates amongst 6th rates until someone had the bright idea to bring light frigates in to combat the hoards of DLC ships which drove people out of shallows, and the game.

Well not all players ore? Personally I didn't spend a day in the shallow before the dlc ship. Right now the actually have kept me in the game. If we look at the stats from steam I also have a problem to read the numbers to support your claim.

Last 30 Days	298.9	-53.6	-15.20%	584
November 2018	352.5	-0.2	-0.07%	693
October 2018	352.7	-26.2	-6.92%	696
September 2018	378.9	-8.0	-2.06%	765
August 2018	386.9	-34.1	-8.10%	701
July 2018	421.0	+93.7	+28.63%	786
June 2018	327.3	-7.2	-2.14%	715
May 2018	334.4	-68.5	-17.00%	630
April 2018	402.9	-31.1	-7.17%	756
March 2018	434.1	-33.8	-7.23%	874
February 2018	467.9	-6.3	-1.33%	951
January 2018	474.2	+59.8	+14.44%	927

Dlc ship hit in July 18 and patch 27 november 18. I might read the numbers wrong. But to me it looks like the Dlc ships actually brought some live back to the server, where as patch 27 had a crushing effect. Don't think there was any dlc ship in that patch. It was a new interface, with should be a good thing. Then there was a change in cost of ship and reward, wittch should be a good think, because ship above 5 rate got more expensive, witch was demanded by the players.

 

Edited December 21, 2018 by staun

[HachiRoku]

39 minutes ago, LeBoiteux said:

So :

• DLC ships are not OP
• They allow ppl who don't have much time available to play NA in nice ships
• They add PvP
• DLC ships fund new ships in game

Thus they are bad ?

My answer is 'No. On the contrary'.

There's more important considerations than the dictature of 24 hour/7 day gamers who don't want others to play their game.

No you do not understand. 

DLC are not OP true but the requin is also not really underperforming is she? Maybe all the people crying on the forums about her are just wrong I dont know....

Sure, reward people that do not play the game and punish the players that do.

Do you have any evidence they add pvp to the game? Even if they did at what price? Destroying shallow rvr and trolling noobs in greenzones? You can only catch a requin with a requin and non dlc owners do not have any other option other to quit the game because they cannot defend greenzones. 

Edited December 21, 2018 by HachiRoku

[HachiRoku]

25 minutes ago, Wraith said:

I definitely think the availability of any daily, noncrafted ship has driven up casual PvP, but I don’t necessarily qualify it as fun PvP (PvP zone spam, etc.). So I’d take issue with that statement.

And as a bit of a connieusseur of 6th rates I can tell you that perhaps the worst ship to kill a requin in is another requin.. since its front chasers will always lose out to its rear chasers in throwing chain. You’re much better off chasing and killing in a prince/privateer combo with its built in control. You’ll at least be able to force a fight that way.

Back to regularly scheduled ranting....

But you are quite unlikely to kill a requin with them since you are outgunned. Chasers are a problem for ever ship when you are chasing. It is impossible to catch a surprise unless you are about 1-2 knots faster for example. 

[HachiRoku]

27 minutes ago, Wraith said:

I definitely think the availability of any daily, noncrafted ship has driven up casual PvP, but I don’t necessarily qualify it as fun PvP (PvP zone spam, etc.). So I’d take issue with that statement.

Thats fair enough but how exactly do you know it? Sure when the ships were first available people played more but the players that pvp with them now would be pvping in another ship if it wasn't for them.

[Beeekonda]

Utter bullshit

they are convenient,fun, stupid and etc,  but not op/p2w 

I have both ship DLC and lately I was not sailing on them much. They were new(kinda), fresh and very attractive at the beginning, especially pre-crafting patch. Now its way better to craft big boi Endy/Indifat/Trincos - those are better and have ship insurance.

Captain Reverse for example: He used to sail on Herc all the time, now he doesn't. 

proof links:

https://www.twitch.tv/lreversel/videos

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMkE6Q8wUuD2kkrHyE5NO6w/videos

 

Banished claims he uses Herc Notes he hoarded for ages, and he does not have DLC. Sails on regular ships - not on those so called PAY-2-WIN ships.

https://www.twitch.tv/banished_privateer/videos

https://www.youtube.com/user/sruPLCC 

 

And what about notes? Are they OP too? They were in game for ages btw and I have a lot of them.

 All of those notes (except 1 Hercules note from tutorial) I got from new mission rewards and I redeemed a whole bunch of those. List of notes (Connie is in the bottom its bugged)

Ingermanland 
Indefatigable 
Endymion  
Rattlesnake Heavy
Endymion
Hercules
Indefatigable
Connie

I also bought Santisima note, is it OP too?

 

Combat performance Sum:

> Has better craftable counterparts for OW battles

> Has better craftable counterparts for shallow PBs, Patrols, and OW battles

> Higher BR for requin that you can counter with 2 Niagaras (Hercules BR is now 170, down from 220. You still counter them with 2 niagaras)

It feels like "DLC = OP/P2W" theory ran out of combat performance arguments and went down on logistics and resource accessibility.

This is stupid point for reasons:

• DLC owner can redeem a ship in a free town, put meds on it and sail? You can tow ANY ship to a free town with ANY guns you want. You also can buy stock ships and use meds on it.
• DLC ships does not require grinding? When they sink they don't give you ship insurance back - which lowers the grind level. According to my calculations every 5th rate I crafted payed back 100% of its value in insurance (guns,mods, and repairs are not included)
• No objective proofs that DLC ships are game breaking (in any aspect) 
• Objective proofs that DLC ships DID brought back players back into the game and DID brought PVP content
• Even if you sail on 5th/6th rates only someone with DLC would save roughly around 1.5 - 2 hours a day on hauling resources
• By buying DLC ships you don't buy instant access to PVP/PVE matchmaking. You still have to sail in OW in search of a combat, just like you would do on a regular ship

 

 

 

 

 

[HachiRoku]

2 minutes ago, Beeekonda said:

Utter bullshit

 

they are convenient,fun, stupid and etc,  but not op/p2w 

I have both ship DLC and lately I was not sailing on them much. They were new(kinda), fresh and very attractive at the beginning, especially pre-crafting patch. Now its way better to craft big boi Endy/Indifat/Trincos - those are better and have ship insurance.

Captain Reverse for example: He used to sail on Herc all the time, now he doesn't. 

proof links:

https://www.twitch.tv/lreversel/videos

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMkE6Q8wUuD2kkrHyE5NO6w/videos

 

Banished claims he uses Herc Notes he hoarded for ages, and he does not have DLC. Sails on regular ships - not on those so called PAY-2-WIN ships.

https://www.twitch.tv/banished_privateer/videos

https://www.youtube.com/user/sruPLCC 

 

And what about notes? Are they OP too? They were in game for ages btw and I have a lot of them.

 

 All of those notes (except 1 Hercules note from tutorial) I got from new mission rewards and I redeemed a whole bunch of those. List of notes (Connie is in the bottom its bugged)

Ingermanland 
Indefatigable 
Endymion  
Rattlesnake Heavy
Endymion
Hercules
Indefatigable
Connie

I also bought Santisima note, is it OP too?

 

Combat performance Sum:

> Has better craftable counterparts for OW battles

> Has better craftable counterparts for shallow PBs, Patrols, and OW battles

> Higher BR for requin that you can counter with 2 Niagaras (Hercules BR is now 170, down from 220. You still counter them with 2 niagaras)

It feels like "DLC = OP/P2W" theory ran out of combat performance arguments and went down on logistics and resource accessibility.

This is stupid point for reasons:

• DLC owner can redeem a ship in a free town, put meds on it and sail? You can tow ANY ship to a free town with ANY guns you want. You also can buy stock ships and use meds on it.
• DLC ships does not require grinding? When they sink they don't give you ship insurance back - which lowers the grind level. According to my calculations every 5th rate I crafted payed back 100% of its value in insurance (guns,mods, and repairs are not included)
• No objective proofs that DLC ships are game breaking (in any aspect) 
• Objective proofs that DLC ships DID brought back players back into the game and DID brought PVP content
• Even if you sail on 5th/6th rates only someone with DLC would save roughly around 1.5 - 2 hours a day on hauling resources
• By buying DLC ships you don't buy instant access to PVP/PVE matchmaking. You still have to sail in OW in search of a combat, just like you would do on a regular ship

 

 

 

 

 

Last time I checked notes require you to work for them. I have never just found a free note in port. I think I explained in quite some detail why convenience is P2W so maybe you should explain to me why it is not. What bannished and reverse sail has nothing to do with this subject. 

This is stupid point for reasons:

• DLC owner can redeem a ship in a free town, put meds on it and sail? You can tow ANY ship to a free town with ANY guns you want. You also can buy stock ships and use meds on it.
• You still need use a tow, did not even think of that advantage. Thanks. You also need to craft a ship and use materials for that. Stock ships cost money and have terrible stats and captured ships are time consuming to capture. 
• DLC ships does not require grinding? When they sink they don't give you ship insurance back - which lowers the grind level. According to my calculations every 5th rate I crafted payed back 100% of its value in insurance (guns,mods, and repairs are not included)
• If you consider 10 clicks of buying cannons and redeeming them a grind a agree with you. I have never insured a ship so I do not know how it works but it does require you to make a ship in the 1st place and insure it doesn't it? 
• No objective proofs that DLC ships are game breaking (in any aspect) 
• Lack of shipyards required, less time consuming to produce, Less resources to build, can be "build" in any freeport. 
• Objective proofs that DLC ships DID brought back players back into the game and DID brought PVP content
• For how long? Judging by the current numbers of players they sure did not help keep the returning players around.
• Even if you sail on 5th/6th rates only someone with DLC would save roughly around 1.5 - 2 hours a day on hauling resources
• Exactly
• By buying DLC ships you don't buy instant access to PVP/PVE matchmaking. You still have to sail in OW in search of a combat, just like you would do on a regular ship
• That is like saying a P2W game still requires you install and play the game. 

 

[Angus MacDuff]

1 minute ago, HachiRoku said:

I have never insured a ship so I do not know how it works but it does require you to make a ship in the 1st place and insure it doesn't it?

Insurance is automatic.  If a ship has been crafted and it sinks, you will receive a nice email with your pay out.

[HachiRoku]

43 minutes ago, Angus MacDuff said:

Insurance is automatic.  If a ship has been crafted and it sinks, you will receive a nice email with your pay out.

does it go back to port? I got a mail once but did not notice a ship

[Angus MacDuff]

Just now, HachiRoku said:

does it go back to port? I got a mail once but did not notice a ship

You just get Reals for it.  No ship.  I think I got 3k reals for a Sab/Mah Snow.

[HachiRoku]

Just now, Angus MacDuff said:

You just get Reals for it.  No ship.  I think I got 3k reals for a Sab/Mah Snow.

so if you still need to get the materials for it, it still requires way more work than a redeemable. I have never really crafted much and to be honest have no idea how the new money works. I just get ships from people I know  

[Angus MacDuff]

1 minute ago, HachiRoku said:

so if you still need to get the materials for it, it still requires way more work than a redeemable. I have never really crafted much and to be honest have no idea how the new money works. I just get ships from people I know  

Crafting 5th rates and below is really not that time consuming any more.  Yes, if you want the good stuff (T/WO) you may have to make a bigger effort (or steal them), but gathering or buying mats for a 5th or 6th rate is very easy.  I know the argument here is that DLCs are even more convenient, but the delta is not that big.  And you can in fact make several ships with a couple of clicks once you have the mats. 

[HachiRoku]

1 minute ago, Angus MacDuff said:

Crafting 5th rates and below is really not that time consuming any more.  Yes, if you want the good stuff (T/WO) you may have to make a bigger effort (or steal them), but gathering or buying mats for a 5th or 6th rate is very easy.  I know the argument here is that DLCs are even more convenient, but the delta is not that big.  And you can in fact make several ships with a couple of clicks once you have the mats. 

If you have to play more time to get the same result it is p2w. There is no doubt about that. Sure if you gather the mats like my clan mates did I just needed to log their alts in and craft a dozen ships a day but they did alot of work. I bought them sandboxi because I never did a thing to help them. Sure you could argue that I myself did alot of damage with abusing alts and you are right. If there was a solution to it I would be the first to point it out even though I abused the system for my personal convenience. Atleast with alts they still require players to work for things. 

[Angus MacDuff]

1 minute ago, HachiRoku said:

If you have to play more time to get the same result it is p2w. There is no doubt about that. Sure if you gather the mats like my clan mates did I just needed to log their alts in and craft a dozen ships a day but they did alot of work. I bought them sandboxi because I never did a thing to help them. Sure you could argue that I myself did alot of damage with abusing alts and you are right. If there was a solution to it I would be the first to point it out even though I abused the system for my personal convenience. Atleast with alts they still require players to work for things. 

You have a very strict definition of P2W.  Redeeming a ship every day and farming noobs till you get revenge ganked?  Okay, that's P2W.  Redeeming a ship, spending a couple of hundred thou on mods and sailing it every day?  Yes, it may be more convenient than crafting a Trinc or Endy (both superior to Herc), but if it's P2W there, it's just over the line.  And I don't buy it really.  My definition is if it's P2W, then I should always win and that's just not the case.  Anybody that I have beat in my Herc, I could have probably beat in another ship.  Plenty of Players have either beat me or chased me off because I am not as skilled as they are (and losing still sucks).  P2W should trump skill.   

[Beeekonda]

I still don't see in what way DLC ships are P2W

And what ship DLC should be like?

And since grinding part is the main issue in DLC why there is not a single mentioning of Admiralty Connection DLC?

 

Edited December 21, 2018 by Beeekonda

[staun]

1 hour ago, Beeekonda said:

I still don't see in what way DLC ships are P2W

And what ship DLC should be like?

And since grinding part is the main issue in DLC why there is not a single mentioning of Admiralty Connection DLC?

 

That is covered a bit back. It is clearly P2W. Only flag is an acceptable Dlc right now. Only cosmetic is not P2W. So flag, paint, But they need to be account bound so they can’t be used for trade. Name change would be an acceptable Dlc, But not nation change.

We don’t need to worry about funding the games. The cosmetic Dlc will flood the game wirh money. With only cosmetic Dlc player will come back in numbers and raise the pop of the server. All will be good again.

[Beeekonda]

37 minutes ago, staun said:

That is covered a bit back. It is clearly P2W. Only flag is an acceptable Dlc right now. Only cosmetic is not P2W. So flag, paint, But they need to be account bound so they can’t be used for trade. Name change would be an acceptable Dlc, But not nation change.

We don’t need to worry about funding the games. The cosmetic Dlc will flood the game wirh money. With only cosmetic Dlc player will come back in numbers and raise the pop of the server. All will be good again.

Can you prove that DLC is p2w first please or gtfo?

 

[staun]

17 minutes ago, Beeekonda said:

Can you prove that DLC is p2w first please or gtfo?

 

Well the definition ppl want to count is. 

- If it gives you acces to things for real money, that ppl that havent paid for don’t have and it is not cosmetic, then it is P2W.

I linked one that I thought was better a bit back, it took also account for skil. But the concesus. was  it didn’t matter. You might not haven gotten it. It dosent matter if it is real P2W, as long as all ships can be label P2W. 

[HachiRoku]

42 minutes ago, Beeekonda said:

Can you prove that DLC is p2w first please or gtfo?

 

there are 10 pages of proof. It is not our fault you are to lazy or just not smart enough to understand it. 

[Beeekonda]

Just now, HachiRoku said:

there are 10 pages of proof. It is not our fault you are to lazy or just not smart enough to understand it. 

 

5 minutes ago, HachiRoku said:

 I might be right I might be wrong

I am too lazy to read all that because there is none, otherwise you would have a clear idea on why its P2W and would be able to clearly state it in one single post. 

You say that DLC ships are P2W because of econ reasons meanwhile ignoring econ related DLC.

 

[staun]

47 minutes ago, Beeekonda said:

 

I am too lazy to read all that because there is none, otherwise you would have a clear idea on why its P2W and would be able to clearly state it in one single post. 

You say that DLC ships are P2W because of econ reasons meanwhile ignoring econ related DLC.

 

Actually he dosent. He has allready said that the admiralty Dlc is P2W and he regard alt account P2W too. Even admittet he have used alts him self. He just have no idea to fix alt account. The only thing talking for alt is that it takes a player. 

Fair is fair. 

Edited December 21, 2018 by staun

[Slim McSauce]

1 hour ago, Beeekonda said:

Can you prove that DLC is p2w first please or gtfo?

 

"In some multiplayer free-to-play games, players who are willing to pay for special items or downloadable content may be able to gain a significant advantage over those playing for free. Critics of such games call them "pay-to-win" (p2w) games. A common suggestion for avoiding pay-to-win is that payments should only be used to broaden the experience without affecting gameplay." 
- Wikipedia 

"Pay To Win. When you are paying for advantage which normal players don't have access to unless they either pay too or will have to grind very long (weeks and months)." 
- Urban Dictionary 

"When money provides an objectively better experience when playing, meaning that if the purchasable content creates a noticeable distinction between the haves and the have-nots. 

“Better Experience” includes in game advantages, stronger in game gear or anything that makes the paying players stand above the free players. 
This is especially a major deal in games with competitions or PVP play." 
- Game-Wisdom 

That's all, hope it was informative!  

I personally prefer when a game offers only vanity and convenience items in the Cash Shop. I like this quote from Victor Kislyi, CEO and founder of Wargaming Public Co Ltd: 

"Establishing a competitive game that is skill-based is the key. If you’re knowledgeable about the game, you should be able to have a shot at winning, even against someone who has spent more money. It’s when the “wallet warriors” always win that causes other players to get frustrated and bail out." 
- IGN 

[Beeekonda]

^

classic shitposter, one of the reasons I don't wanna read the whole thing

 

[Slim McSauce]

u just don't want to see the truth mate

those aren't my opinions, but opinions of many editorials, players, and CEO's on pay2win in video games.

if u don't like it try to get the definition changed

Edited December 21, 2018 by Slim McSauce

[Beeekonda]

 

According to Slim:

A single player mobile game that lets you buy stuff is P2W

A game, single or multi player based, that rewards pre-order with extra content and/or earlier access is P2W

I play DOTA2 and there is Frosthaven Event going on. People with DOTA PLUS subscription ($3.99) can receive extra rewards and buy extra consumables for that event. its a 5man team PVE. I guess thats pay to win too

 

 

 

[HachiRoku]

56 minutes ago, Beeekonda said:

 

I am too lazy to read all that because there is none, otherwise you would have a clear idea on why its P2W and would be able to clearly state it in one single post. 

You say that DLC ships are P2W because of econ reasons meanwhile ignoring econ related DLC.

 

Hehe, if you read it you would know we covered that. You really must be stupid