A Controversial Subject.

[Beeekonda]

1 minute ago, HachiRoku said:

Hehe, if you read it you would know we covered that. You really must be stupid

 

Truth is somewhere there

[staun]

15 minutes ago, Slim McSauce said:

"In some multiplayer free-to-play games, players who are willing to pay for special items or downloadable content may be able to gain a significant advantage over those playing for free. Critics of such games call them "pay-to-win" (p2w) games. A common suggestion for avoiding pay-to-win is that payments should only be used to broaden the experience without affecting gameplay." 
Not sure eitherdlc ships gives an significant advantage any more. Not with the latest changes.

"Pay To Win. When you are paying for advantage which normal players don't have access to unless they either pay too or will have to grind very long (weeks and months)." 
How long would you have to use in game to get the mats and craft a ship with the same use in Na. Doubt we talk weeks. Proberbly in the start a bit more, but after short time you would actually could craft 3-4 egual ship a day,

"When money provides an objectively better experience when playing, meaning that if the purchasable content creates a noticeable distinction between the haves and the have-nots. 

Would that actually not be all cosmetic dlc.

“Better Experience” includes in game advantages, stronger in game gear or anything that makes the paying players stand above the free players. 
This is especially a major deal in games with competitions or PVP play." 
If we take the word of a decent skilled player like Hachi. Then the Dlc ships are not better than other ships. They are better against some and wors against others.
I personally prefer when a game offers only vanity and convenience items in the Cash Shop. I like this quote from Victor Kislyi, CEO and founder of Wargaming Public Co 
Isen't that what the Dlc ships are. Also think it goes against Hachi's definition.
"Establishing a competitive game that is skill-based is the key. If you’re knowledgeable about the game, you should be able to have a shot at winning, even against someone who has spent more money. It’s when the “wallet warriors” always win that causes other players to get frustrated and bail out." 
Will ppl actually claim that skill dosen't matter in NA. That better players that not are on a DLc ship, couldn't win over a unskilled player on a DLC ship.

Where did I get my argument wrong?

[Slim McSauce]

Your argument isn't "wrong", it just doesn't change the common definition of pay2win for most people.

Edited December 21, 2018 by Slim McSauce

[staun]

 

8 minutes ago, Slim McSauce said:

Your argument isn't "wrong", it just doesn't change the common definition of pay2win

Well you lost me there. Was that not commom definition of Pay to win. You even say my argumentation isen't wrong. Witch would mean the ships are not P2W. What commom definition is it you think I haven't responded to. 

You are right my argumentation dosen't change the common definition of P2W. I haven't tried to change them, I even accepted those you linked. I responded to those you linked, argumented why the Dlc ships then not could be P2W. You even accepted my argumentation. I guess we then can agree on the ships are not P2W.

It dosen't mean you wouldn't like another way to have DLc in game because you think I would give a better gameplay,. Just don't think the argument can P2W witch the ships appereantly isent.

Edited December 21, 2018 by staun

[Thonys]

my 2 cents

make for the 2 DLC Hercules and LeRequin,... only available as a permit 

where you have to build the DLC ship just like any other ship in the game with materials and LH, in that case,

it will be accepted far more easy in the shallow just like any other material build ship...

DLC ship >>>>  is a  permit . 

- so there is no issue with shipbuilders anymore and does not disturb the shipping market and building market

- the ship is not capturable and you can not sell it.

- you can only make 1 ship every 24 hours.

 

problems solved

[staun]

2 minutes ago, Thonys said:

my 2 cents

make for the 2 DLC Hercules and LeRequin,... only available as a permit 

where you have to build the DLC ship just like any other ship in the game with materials and LH, in that case,

it will be accepted far more easy in the shallow just like any other material build ship...

DLC ship >>>>  is a  permit . 

- so there is no issue with shipbuilders anymore and does not disturb the shipping market and building market

- the ship is not capturable and you can not sell it.

- you can only make 1 ship every 24 hours.

 

problems solved

With those changes give me one reason to buy a dlc ship. They are not better, they cost the same amount of material and LH. 

[Thonys]

5 minutes ago, staun said:

With those changes give me one reason to buy a dlc ship. They are not better, they cost the same amount of material and LH. 

because perhaps you like the ship

and that's all.  just like paint  .....you like it or you don't like it .

 

Edited December 21, 2018 by Thonys

[staun]

Just now, Thonys said:

because perhaps you like the ship

and that's all.  just like paint  .....you like it or you dont.

 

But why should it be restricted in permit to 1 every 24 hours, when it cost the same in materials and Lh as other ships. Why should It be non capturable an not be able to sell it, if it basicly is the same as all other ships in form of the work that is needed?

[Slim McSauce]

Just now, staun said:

But why should it be restricted in permit to 1 every 24 hours, when it cost the same in materials and Lh as other ships. Why should It be non capturable an not be able to sell it, if it basicly is the same as all other ships in form of the work that is needed?

huh, everyone has to buy their own permits/mats and craft their ships. It's part of the game.

[staun]

29 minutes ago, Slim McSauce said:

huh, everyone has to buy their own permits/mats and craft their ships. It's part of the game.

Actually thats not right. Just ask hachi. Ppl just give him ships.

So you argument is no longer P2W, but that ships should be crafted, use permits and so on. But to follow in the line of that, shouldn't all store ships be removed and ships that you can buy for dbl and ofc all the notes that falls in special events? Would we not also have to remove the possibility to capture Npc ships, unless they are crafted by a player? not to forget the yacht.

Btw it didn't answer my guestion why it should be restricted when his idea was it should be crafted as all ships, with materials, lh. Why should it be restricted?

Edited December 22, 2018 by staun

[Thonys]

10 minutes ago, staun said:

But why should it be restricted in permit to 1 every 24 hours, when it cost the same in materials and Lh as other ships. Why should It be non capturable an not be able to sell it, if it basicly is the same as all other ships in form of the work that is needed?

in that case, you are forced to play other ships as well (and a little bit punished for losing your ship perhaps?)

by the way : normal build ships  cost Reals

 DLC do not cost Reals ...

Edited December 21, 2018 by Thonys

[staun]

2 minutes ago, Thonys said:

in that case, you are forced to play other ships as well

by the way : normal build ships  cost reals

 DLC do not cost reals ...

So your argument is real? Does the other ships not give an insurrance when they get sunk. So you would put insurrance on dlc ships. Otherweise the real answer give no meaning.

Why do you think it is a good idea to force players to sail different ships. Is that only for ships ore overall you think the game should force you to play in a certain way?

[Thonys]

7 minutes ago, staun said:

So your argument is real? Does the other ships not give an insurrance when they get sunk. So you would put insurrance on dlc ships. Otherweise the real answer give no meaning.

Why do you think it is a good idea to force players to sail different ships. Is that only for ships ore overall you think the game should force you to play in a certain way?

ohw and i forgot to say indeed : no insurance for DLC.

sorry....you get enough already...(remember Hercules is a special.)

you dont have to pay reals so no reals in return by insurance (only normal ships were you have to pay with reals )

Edited December 22, 2018 by Thonys

[staun]

11 minutes ago, Thonys said:

ohw and i forgot to say indeed : no insurance for DLC.

sorry....you get enough already...

So you actually would punish players for sailling a dlc ship,

Dlc. same work in mats and Lh. No cost to build, but no insurrance, so you don't get covered the cost for mats.

Normal ships. same work mats and Lh. Cost to build but insurrance covers the cost of building the ship, both in mats an the real for building.

On top of that you will make them redeem only once a day, not be able to sell it ore capture it.

Is it just because it is a dlc ship it should be worse than other ship?  But you are right with your idea, the only reason to buy a dlc ship would be you like it,

Btw you haven't answered to the question on gameplay should be forced on players ore this also only goes for players that sail a dlc ship?

Can you plz specify  for me what you mean you get enough. I actually can't see it with your proposal.

Edited December 22, 2018 by staun

[Thonys]

2 minutes ago, staun said:

So you actually would punish players for sailling a dlc ship,

Dlc. same work in mats and Lh. No cost to build, but no insurrance, so you don't get covered the cost for mats.

Normal ships. same work mats and Lh. Cost to build but insurrance covers the cost of building the ship, both in mats an the real for building.

On top of that you will make them redeem only once a day, not be able to sell it ore capture it.

Is it just because it is a dlc ship it should be worse than other ship?  But you are wright with your idea, the only reason to buy a dlc ship would be you like it,

Btw you haven't answered to the question on gameplay should be forced on players ore this also only goes for players that sail a dlc ship?

look at it this way ;

why should normal players be punished 

and the DLC players get only the benefits 

in this game,

normal players  (no dlc players )have to pay for everything  (LH, Reals, materials)... making a DLC ship do not cost Reals. 

 

i have the dlc but brake a lance for the shipbuilders and the players who have to pay for everything in the shallows what most DLC players want is a ticket on the first row and easy life in comparison with the regular player, and i don't like that at all... equal monks equal heats

 

[staun]

11 minutes ago, Thonys said:

look at it this way ;

why should normal players be punished 

The punishment being they cant't craft the ship? They can easy craft equal as good ships. So your argument is dlc should be punished only because not all can make them

and the DLC players get only the benefits 

With your sugestion the only benefit they get is they can craft the  ship. In all other perspective they get punished,

in this game,

normal players  (no dlc players )have to pay for everything  (LH, Reals, materials)... making a DLC ship do not cost Reals. 

Nope but you neither get insurrance, And again with your proposal the the non dlc ships will cost less because of the insurrance. Plus you have a huge benefit in the posible profit in selling a ship. Even a store ship can you sell and trade. 

 

i have the dlc but brake a lance for the shipbuilders and the players who have to pay for everything in the shallows what most DLC players want is a ticket on the first row and easy life in comparison with the regular player, and i don't like that at all... equal monks equal heats

But with your idea why would an Dlc ship be an easy life? Where is the equality in your surgestion?

You still have managed to avoid to answer my question on forced gameplay. Guess you must have overlooked it somehow.

Edited December 22, 2018 by staun

[Captain Reverse]

again P2W

ahaha))

[Thonys]

6 minutes ago, staun said:

You still have managed to avoid to answer my question on forced gameplay. Guess you must have overlooked it somehow.

i am not forcing anybody, they can go play Tetris if they want.

also, Hercules is not a bad ship at all, it is actually a great ship. (if you lose it in battle you should be keelhauled by the Admiralty of your nation.)

or go down with your ship.(not uncommon).

[staun]

6 minutes ago, Thonys said:

i am not forcing anybody, they can go play Tetris if they want.

Pretty sure you wrote that players should be forced to sail other ships. Now you suggest if they don't want that they should play another game.

also, Hercules is not a bad ship at all, it is actually a great ship. (if you lose it in battle you should be keelhauled by the Admiralty of your nation.)

or go down with your ship.(not uncommon).

Yes it is a fine ship, so are alot of ships in the game. But right now you are actually not answering why Dlc ships should be punished worse than regulary ships. 

Is that a new feature you want to implement in to the game. That you get demoted ore your char deleted if you lose a ship. Ore do I misunderstand Keelhauled and go down with your ship?

Force players to sail different ships. You think like a rotation, so you have to go trough all ship before you can sail the first ship again.

Edited December 22, 2018 by staun

[Thonys]

9 minutes ago, staun said:

 

see it this way sinking your Hercules, has consequences (same as normal builds)

but this goes in another direction, doesn't it.

also, your DLC Hercules looks more like a  spawning repeat machinegun.

in my proposal, it is more in equal term with the normal player who has to build their ships what is also time-consuming (and that is an aspect you haven't discussed yet in comparison to non DLC and DLC players.

Edited December 22, 2018 by Thonys

[staun]

18 minutes ago, Thonys said:

see it this way sinking your Hercules, has consequences (same as normal builds)

First of all, it always have. You can only redeem one a day, Not sure with you. I had plenty of days when I was more active where I lost more than a ship a day. But we are talking about your idea. Why shold the lose of a dlc have bigger consequences than a normal ships, if they are build on the same terms.

but this goes in another direction, doesn't it.

No idea what you are aiming for. It is your idea that you have to start all over when you lose a ship?

also, your DLC Hercules looks more like a  spawning repeat machinegun.

Not sure what machinguns you have where you are leving. My knowledge tells me it shoots around 300 rounds a min, and you just put a new mag in when empty. Not sure the herc with a 24 cooldown would be a machinegun. Not sure it would be a good machinegun with only a mag a day.

in my proposal, it is more in equal term with the normal player who has to build their ships what is also time-consuming (and that is an aspect you haven't discussed yet in comparison to non DLC and DLC players.

Are you drunk? I have clearly based oure debate on your idea. Clearly showen you why with your idea, the dlc ship get punished by all you parameter., Only the dlc give acces to craft a ship another player can't. Is you idea to make it equal that you pay for a dlc ship but you can't craft it ore even if you dont pay for it, you should still be able to craft dlc ships?

I said, witch is a sum of what your idea is.

So you actually would punish players for sailling a dlc ship,

Dlc. same work in mats and Lh. No cost to build, but no insurrance, so you don't get covered the cost for mats.

Normal ships. same work mats and Lh. Cost to build but insurrance covers the cost of building the ship, both in mats an the real for building.

On top of that you will make them redeem only once a day, not be able to sell it ore capture it.

Is it just because it is a dlc ship it should be worse than other ship?  But you are right with your idea, the only reason to buy a dlc ship would be you like it,

Btw you haven't answered to the question on gameplay should be forced on players ore this also only goes for players that sail a dlc ship?

Can you plz specify  for me what you mean you get enough. I actually can't see it with your proposal.

 

Edited December 22, 2018 by staun

[Thonys]

32 minutes ago, Captain Reverse said:

again P2W

ahaha))

my last intel told me : you have around 6 million Reals, so you can afford it 😜 

[staun]

5 minutes ago, Thonys said:

my last intel told me : you have around 6 million Reals, so you can afford it 😜 

Then you intel guy is wrong. Think you should get a new one. I have way less. So if I have less real I get a discount on ships and if i have to much I have to pay more. Is that what you say. And again you actually do not answer to the fact of your own idea. Plz enlighten me to why you won't answer to fact on your own idea. Just trolling me till you have to go to bed?

Think around 455 k real and about 3800 dbl

Oh sorry that wasn't to me.

Edited December 22, 2018 by staun

[Thonys]

6 minutes ago, staun said:

 

just to give you an idea 

at some point i had four Hercules in my docks. (in 3 days)

 and it only cost me 12 clicks with the mouse.

now compare it with the normal player to get 4 surprises. (and the effort he has to do to acquire those 4 ships ) the difference is just not oke.

[staun]

Just now, Thonys said:

just to give you an idea 

at some point i had four Hercules in my docks. (in 3 days)

 and it only cost me 12 clicks with the mouse.

now compare it with the normal player to get 4 surprises. (and the effort he has to do to acquire those 4 ships ) the difference is just not oke.

Those 4 herc is with the system we have now. Is that the same system you suggest? No it is not. So go look on your own idea once more and tell my why dlc owner in your idea should be worse of than non dlc owner,