Not even a newbie (yet). Have a question about speed.

[Bonham Rashleigh]

So I played Pirates of the Burning Sea and while this game is worlds away from a realistic/tactical standpoint I have a question about speed and am going to use a (perhaps poor) comparison.

I see this talk about 15 knots being the max speed and there being lots of ways to increase speed of ships to that max somewhat easily.  Meaning large warships would potentially be able to outrun small ships built for quick travel.

Now, maybe I'm ignorant of historical speeds and something like a Frigate could actually outrun something like a Cutter, and I do understand different ships will have different characteristics in relation to sailing into the wind and so on.

My question is this: In PotBS I was able to capture a Bermuda Trader Sloop (un-craftable/un-purchasable ship), which at the time was the fastest ship in the game.  I outfitted it purely for speed and used it specifically to avoid fights (move my own valuable cargo or even charge others to deliver theirs to dangerous ports).  I was never caught.  Rarely I'd get pulled into a fight instance, but I always easily sailed away.

Based on what I've been reading I'm wondering if a large number of ships will end up with the same top speed.  Again, obviously wind direction plays a roll, but still.  If this is true there's a good chance I'm not even going to bother purchasing the game.  I'm not a pacifist or anything, and love the fights, but this issue goes beyond my example above as I'm sure some of the more experienced players should know.

[Farrago]

I never played POTBS so I don't know how much physics of the ships were programmed. In NA cargo weight puts a big hit on speed. Weight and ship size also affects acceleration. Different points of sail matter.

Ship list in Naval Action

This list is for basic unmodified characteristics with no cargo. One could definitely build a trader that could escape just about any one ship it meets. One could also build a hunter that could catch just about any trader it chased. But will these two perfectly designed for the task ships ever meet each other and will they be captained by equally skilled captains. Rarely. So, you win some, you lose some.

Most traders that get caught are sailing AFK, overloaded, or victim of a wolf pack where you get pinned by more than one hunter.

I hope you give the game a try.

[Macjimm]

Just now, Farrago said:

One could definitely build a trader that could escape just about any one ship it meets. One could also build a hunter that could catch just about any trader it chased. But will these two perfectly designed for the task ships ever meet each other and will they be captained by equally skilled captains. Rarely. So, you win some, you lose some.

Most traders that get caught are sailing AFK, overloaded, or victim of a wolf pack where you get pinned by more than one hunter.

I hope you give the game a try.

Very eloquently worded,

It also nice to hear that there are other players who value the chase.  Trading and evading capture/destruction is a valid form of PvP.

Bonham, 

If you enjoy trading with other players and the thrill of slipping past a dangerous foe in a dynamic open world this game is worth a try.  I don't get a chance to sail everyday but trade and fish often in hazardous waters without cannon on my ship.  Last night I lost my first vessel to a pirate attack since before the big wipe in May.  I was not AFK but was preoccupied writing in the ship's log.   The pirate caught me with my head down in his fast small Prince, a vessel that may be just slightly faster than my Trader Lynx.   Once in battle he made short work of my demise.

It may be many months till I encounter the same situation of disadvantage again ... But I will be ready and look forward to the challenge of outrunning a similar ship.  Perhaps the weight of his cannon will slow him significantly or Mabey I will gain the better position as we enter the combat instance.  Or one of my allies my be near as an escort.

I would prefer if all of the speeds were not uniformly capped but NA is still variable and interesting.

[Sir William Hargood]

A point of note here would be sailing characteristics: In short how various ships perform to various points of the wind. The highest speed is only relevant to its best point of sail.

Any fore-aft rigged ship would easily be able to out-sail any square rigger on a close hauled tack. In other words you can safely assume that the Bermuda Trade Sloop you are referring to will out-sail square riggers to windward. Sloops like Yachts, Cutters, Lynxes, Privateers and Schooners, are rigged with fore-aft Gaff Rigs which are better sailors to windward.

Square-riggers are less adapt to windward sailing and are as such easily avoidable to windward in fore-aft rigged vessels. This data can be found in the sailing profiles as contained in some Naval Action Wiki pages: http://navalaction.wikia.com/wiki/Sailing_Profile      or     http://www.navalactionwiki.com/index.php?title=Sailing_Profile

So the short answer is it all depends on the sailing characteristics of each ship to various wind points and how best to out-sail these with what you have. I run around in my Trader Lynx and Yacht all the time, virtually immune to being sunk. Obviously gaff rigged trader ships have much smaller hold spaces. For good measure I remove all guns and add sailing speed mods, particularly to windward.

Buy the game its great!!

[IndianaGeoff]

And one can always sail cheap traders and accept the occasional loss.  You can mitigate that by learning the patterns of your foes.

[Bonham Rashleigh]

I completely understand types of rigging and point of sail/wind.  So no concerns there.  My fear was that it would be common for, let's say, a Ship of the Line to be able to keep up with a Frigate, all other things considered as equal as possible (i.e. I get that a heavily armed/armored Frigate build for brawling could theoretically be overtaken by a lighter armed/armored Ship of the Line build for speed).

It sounds like my fears in this area are mostly unfounded based on the replies.  Reading through the forums it seemed like it was a bigger issue than it appears to be.

Thanks all for the feedback.

[Sir William Hargood]

Ah okay I see your point. All ships have been hard capped to max 15kts. This may be a small issue and may require some tweaking by the Devs. Already been some resistance to the hard cap and suggestions for rather a variable % soft cap. Its the old issue of Battle Cruiser vs Armored/Heavy Cruiser. Faster than anything Stronger and Stronger than anything Faster balance.

Remember the game is still early access and I doubt the Devs would forgo realism in favor of fantasy. They will balance it out. There is no point in having Ships of the Line out-sailing Frigates or Corvettes. I believe the hard cap is a temporary measure before proper balancing.

[Hodo]

The problem with the current speed cap is just that, the cap itself.  It means all ships have the same top speed, so why go with a ship that was actually built for speed at a set profile, when you can take a heavier ship, set it up to go max speed at that same angle, and go. 

 

[EdWatchmaker]

Awesome community. Great feedback to Bonham. 

[IndianaGeoff]

On 10/16/2017 at 7:16 AM, IndianaGeoff said:

And one can always sail cheap traders and accept the occasional loss.  You can mitigate that by learning the patterns of your foes.

Funny thing, last night I paid the tax.  But it was a prime time run in a busy place with 300 iron.  The ganker didn't get it though.  He got a crap brig and some fish.

[Rigs]

On 10/16/2017 at 4:01 AM, Sir William Hargood said:

A point of note here would be sailing characteristics: In short how various ships perform to various points of the wind. The highest speed is only relevant to its best point of sail.

Any fore-aft rigged ship would easily be able to out-sail any square rigger on a close hauled tack. In other words you can safely assume that the Bermuda Trade Sloop you are referring to will out-sail square riggers to windward. Sloops like Yachts, Cutters, Lynxes, Privateers and Schooners, are rigged with fore-aft Gaff Rigs which are better sailors to windward.

Square-riggers are less adapt to windward sailing and are as such easily avoidable to windward in fore-aft rigged vessels. This data can be found in the sailing profiles as contained in some Naval Action Wiki pages: http://navalaction.wikia.com/wiki/Sailing_Profile      or     http://www.navalactionwiki.com/index.php?title=Sailing_Profile

So the short answer is it all depends on the sailing characteristics of each ship to various wind points and how best to out-sail these with what you have. I run around in my Trader Lynx and Yacht all the time, virtually immune to being sunk. Obviously gaff rigged trader ships have much smaller hold spaces. For good measure I remove all guns and add sailing speed mods, particularly to windward.

Buy the game its great!!

Not sure about removing guns on a trader, it's the weight of the cargo adjustment that has more impact. On a traders Lynx removing the guns only adds up a 0.04 kn.

Also, I have to say this, unless its a very bad tag, in a traders lynx you have almost no chance getting away from the Prince.

 

[DeRuyter]

4 hours ago, IndianaGeoff said:

Funny thing, last night I paid the tax.  But it was a prime time run in a busy place with 300 iron.  The ganker didn't get it though.  He got a crap brig and some fish.

You mean "privateer". Getting hit by a solo hunter is not a gank even if you are in a trader.

[Farrago]

4 hours ago, Rigs said:

Not sure about removing guns on a trader, it's the weight of the cargo adjustment that has more impact. On a traders Lynx removing the guns only adds up a 0.04 kn.

Also, I have to say this, unless its a very bad tag, in a traders lynx you have almost no chance getting away from the Prince.

 

Agreed. Although I don't know about the Indiaman since oddly enough I've never owned one, the speed cost to put guns on the other traders is negligible. I like guns on a trader. Yes, they are useless against a skilled hunter but against a lesser captain they can counter the speed advantage.

And not everyone who tags you is skilled. 

Edited October 17, 2017 by Farrago