Using an alt to aid the enemy for Conquest Marks

[Skully]

For purpose of discussion over http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/21570-reporting-myself/ I'm creating this topic.

Conquest Marks are a valuable commodity, so players will try everything to obtain them.

Now if two Nations decide to flip a port, would it be allowed to use an alt to help out?

What if other Clans are against said port flip?

And what if the other Clan's objection comes through an alt?

 

[Sir Texas Sir]

I would say alts shouldn't be used no matter what.  That is pretty much cut in dry.  

[Guest]

Just goes to show the sorry state of the CM system. Unless you're part of the main clan/s you can neither contest a hostile port because you lack the ships for it, nor can you arrange the flipping of a port by someone else since you're not representative of the nation, nor does the main clan/s have to care as long as they have enough for themselves already.

Given the questions you've put forth it's too much of a gray-zone for alts to get involved, even for "benign" purposes. Best off with zero tolerance for it.

[Skully]

You can state this in the rules. But if it can not be enforced, it is useless.

Rather we would need to accept and find other means / mechanics to deal with such scenarios.

[Gaizka]

Just to clarify a bit more.

1.-We stopped when the port was at 66% hostility and it is still there.

2.-We were sure we were doing the right thing (we still are unless the devs say otherwise)

3.-Allowing friendly nations to flip your ports and forbiding alters doing so is useless. It cant be enforced. The only reason why everybody knows the alters are alters is because we said so. They are diferent Steam accounts with different emails. (in fact I used my daughter steam account. She is 8 and she loves playing Hello kitty games  )

I dont want to cheat, never did and never will. As I said, we stopped when we saw Ink´answer, but we still cant underestand how can this be ilegal, unless you make friendly port flipping ilegal too.

There is no way to avoid cheaters if they want to cheat using this "exploit".

4.-We (all people involved) are very frustrated with this because it was the only way out we saw to start participating in real port battles.

5.-We hope that at least it helps to solve some mechanics of the game.

[Mrdoomed]

How can anything ever be enforced even if using alts for soething was deemed inappropriate? Unless the player using alts in the wrong way is stupid enough to admit it it's all just hearsay and can't be enforced.  By allowing this game to be p2w they let the genie outa the bag. 

[Daguse]

6 hours ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

I would say alts shouldn't be used no matter what.  That is pretty much cut in dry.  

I agree, alts should only be used in econ. 

In addition,the punishment for using an alt in any way to manipulate a PB should be swift and harsh. Banning 1 of 5 of a players alts does nothing. If a alt is used to manipulate hostility or a PB, all players involved in the action should lose some rank. The risk has to out way the reward.

[Hethwill]

IMO, ban the alt account from the testing phases.

On game gold release, lift all bans.

But that's just me, Honest Heth.

[zaba]

It seems the devs decision:

They assume that the game it has become a total faliure, with tons of bad reviews on steam from people who has thousands of hours expended in the game and no plan to repair all the broken mechanics. They are afraid of that huge amount of bad revisions is going to sink his sales and the solution is... hello kitty this ungrateful people, we are  going to try with a distinct game and improve the NA mechanics to sell alt accounts, becouse we will not fool anyone new, so let´s try to get the money of all the fools we've ever caught, becouse there are some foolish enough to pay several times for something that does not work, with the promise that this is the solution.

Alts are cancer in MMO and becouse of that steam disapprove it. Alts will kill what little remains of naval action.

 

R.I.P.

[Gaizka]

You cant forbid Alters. It is impossible to do and no game in the market does it.

On the other hand a simple mechanic such as forbiding all trade between players of diferent nations would do the trick. That would make alters useless. 

Needing lots of hostility points to enter a port battle would prevent most alters influencing in port battles.

 

Just my opinion. I am not specially happy to use alters, but there are so many in the game I feel I am a step behind if I dont use one.

[Mrdoomed]

11 minutes ago, Gaizka said:

You cant forbid Alters. It is impossible to do and no game in the market does it.

On the other hand a simple mechanic such as forbiding all trade between players of diferent nations would do the trick. That would make alters useless. 

Needing lots of hostility points to enter a port battle would prevent most alters influencing in port battles.

 

Just my opinion. I am not specially happy to use alters, but there are so many in the game I feel I am a step behind if I dont use one.

That hardly makes alts useless lol.

[Sir Texas Sir]

1 hour ago, The Red Duke said:

IMO, ban the alt account from the testing phases.

On game gold release, lift all bans.

But that's just me, Honest Heth.

And than let it be a clean slate if they screw up again.  I'm all for this.

Than again I have three and they are all pirates for a reason. My current crafter was my Dane char before the patch, but it's to much a pain to support alts now with the cost of every thing it was more better to just put them all in one nation.  

 

[Norfolk nChance]

This area of the game, ALTs I’m very interested in even if the word is mentioned only in passing in the OP.  @Skully’s OP is very true and if I may say A typical problem that ALTs get dragged into the middle of for the wrong reason. Just look on the general title forums today and see how many times its mentioned in some way.

 

I don’t want to tell any of you how to “Suck Eggs” …

An ALT is an Alternate Player Character from your Main Player Character (PC). However, most players think of ALTs as sub-PCs and this is the problem. The ALT is a PC in everything that interfaces with Naval Action just as much as you’re main PC.

 

Norfolk nWay and Norfolk nChance have the same rights in NA

My ALT is Called Norfolk nWay is French and is in a Clan called [ELEET]. In no way shape or form does he have any less rights within Naval Action than “Norfolk nChance”. The ALT term is MY internal reflection ONLY. And this is the hard part to get one’s head around…

We should NOT use the word ALT here. It’s a Play Mechanic that’s not quite right and is open for abuse. Trying to “Ban the ALT” or enforcing an ALT rule that won’t allow the mechanic to be abused is looking at it (the problem) the wrong way around.

You cannot realistically police this. Get to the core of the problem. The ALT is the function by which the abuse takes place, the responsibility for that abuse is the PC. Don’t use the word ALT. ALT is an internal reflection not external. @Sir Texas Sir and his ALT Dane, Norfolk or GamesLab cannot tell the difference they are BOTH PCs.

 

This is Bad PC Behavior NOT Bad ALT Behavior…

Look at this “Experiment Two” I did back in February. Sir Texas will remember it clearly. The idea was reverse hostility missioning to pop PBs. The issue with this old mechanic focused around the ALT. Players and Dev’s at first couldn’t see passed the ALT abuse and not the underlying weak game mechanic. It took time to sink in.

At the time I had no ALT, using Sante Fe I locked out the Pirates from PBs as it triggered the 2nd one. I’m just 1 player yet locked out an entire Nation. Also, I could continue to do this…

 

So, how does this help us Norfolk…?

In EXP2 its clearly an abuse of the system mechanic so persecutes the PC. The OP by @Skully says…

 “Using an alt to aid the enemy for Conquest Marks”.

Re-read the “Reporting Myself” and quite clearly, it’s the weak mechanic that needs changing and nothing to do with any PC at all. We spend way too much time and energy looking at the wrong part of the problem. Too much energy is lost on focusing on the exploiters before this Game is launched. I know some of you won’t agree with this point of view…

 

Issues to Come…

This then hits other massive issues. PB grief_ing, Same Nation abuse and all the other problems that come with it. I’ve always stated we need an “ALT Rulebook” before launch, have done a Guide and threads like “What Is Bad ALT Behavior…?”

I sort of misled in the titles. It should be “What Is Bad PC Behavior…?”

Excluding Newbie Instances, you know full well what is bad PC behavior. Norfolk nChance failing six RA missions with no intention of completing them is a full-blown abuse. How do I know Norfolk had no intention of completing them? Time spent in each of the 6 missions…

 

In Closing…

This is really how we should be thinking in terms of ALTs. If you really want to solve these types of problems. We need a set of guidelines and rulebook on ALTs and abuses. With PC Behavior guidelines before launch.

In my opinion,

 

Norfolk

 

 

[Gaizka]

Alts are usually hated by many players because sometimes they do stuff that a normal player from that nation wouldnt do. (such as enter port battles just to take an spot). I hate that kind of behavor as much as everyone else.

But if an alter is doing stuff that has been declared legal (such as fliping friendly ports) how can something legal become ilegal just because of the person who is doing it?

Hostility still coming down after every server update and we are still waiting from an answer from the devs.