Rebellions

[Bach]

9 minutes ago, Hodo said:

Letting them fight it out isnt going to do anything but create more salt.  Nothing good comes from fighting "blue on blue" in a game.

Gamers DONT let go of grudges.  

And all it would lead to is a promotion of the zerg guild/clan and the big snuffing out the small.  

I'm not so sure promotion of the biggest clan is a bad thing. Technically they are already the majority of the nation.  At the risk of giving Sir Texas a bigger head I would have to say BLACK is a proven example of what can be accomplished when main clans can enforce their will. Now some day BLACK might get toppled by a coalition of angry pirates. But until then the Pirate nation remains a smoother operation than say the USA or France. Mostly due to the fact the other nations have no recourse to end internal strife and toxicity on its own. It just builds up till collapse.  Had TF (just an example) been able to exert its will early in the USA, before total blow up, the USA might be running smoother for everyone.

Edited July 5, 2017 by Bach

[Hodo]

13 minutes ago, Bach said:

I'm not so sure promotion of the biggest clan is a bad thing. Technically they are already the majority of the nation.  At the risk of giving Sir Texas a bigger head I would have to say BLACK is a proven example of what can be accomplished when main clans can enforce their will. Now some day BLACK might get toppled by a coalition of angry pirates. But until then the Pirate nation remains a smoother operation than say the USA or France. Mostly due to the fact the other nations have no recourse to end internal strife and toxicity on its own. It just builds up till collapse.  Had TF (just an example) been able to exert its will early in the USA, before total blow up, the USA might be running smoother for everyone.

While this is true, it will constantly be in a state of internal war.  You cant sail anywhere alone or in small missions without risk of being attacked by your own nation.   Which is not the way things went back then.  

BLACK is a good example of two things, the right way, and the wrong way.   They have exerted a lot of control over the pirates in GLOBAL, BUT they have also forced out a fair amount of players too.    Imagine you get an absolutely toxic clan that is the biggest clan in that nation.  They could drive away more players from the game than from the nation. 

[Sir Texas Sir]

1 hour ago, Hodo said:

While this is true, it will constantly be in a state of internal war.  You cant sail anywhere alone or in small missions without risk of being attacked by your own nation.   Which is not the way things went back then.  

BLACK is a good example of two things, the right way, and the wrong way.   They have exerted a lot of control over the pirates in GLOBAL, BUT they have also forced out a fair amount of players too.    Imagine you get an absolutely toxic clan that is the biggest clan in that nation.  They could drive away more players from the game than from the nation. 

I would love to know who we ran out for no reason.  Every one that I know we ran off had very good reason cause they where very toxic players (attacking other pirates not just BLACK) or they where spy/alts of other nations and those guys where trying to cause a split in our nation.  You should hear our nation chat now that they are all gone.  It's very peaceful, folks ask for help and we are supporting each other.   We tell the smaller clans to go do what they want for the most part, but if they want to run up agro and expect our help they need to let us know before had, other wise they are on there own (they found out about this when they put agro on PnP without our help).   If we where so bad a clan than why is it when folks leave other nations they come to us to join, though many of those get butt hurt and become toxic when we refuse to let them join.  Why would we want some one that jumped ship so easily?

Not to point fingers but did any one notice that HELL clan broke up and certain players stayed pirates and formed with other clans, while the toxic players of that clan ran off to US (suspected US alts of that group and PvP1 alts before server merge).   Those same folks have now ran off to Brits with there suspected alt clans?  Cause maybe just maybe we where right about them being alts.   We have screen shots and proof of certain things, but they didn't do anything worthy of a tribunal so we didn't make one for them.  We handled it in house.

Now for one of the problems I seen with something like the Pirate vs Pirates FFA is that big clans can abuse it and pick on little guys.  Just like the old alliance voting system didn't solve anything cause it was all ways going to be the big clans with the numbers that won the vote even if most of the small clans wanted war. Some times having the biggest players/clans is not a good thing for a nation.  Just cause they are older and stable and been around for a long time doesn't mean it's good, just mean they don't run off to other things. 

 

 

[Koltes]

On 7/4/2017 at 11:12 AM, Bach said:

Reading the recent USA problems thread in global gave me this idea. We need Rebellions and revolutions.  The USA had them, the French had them, the British had them. Pretty much every nation has troublesom or often progressive evolutionary rebellions.

In NA we have teams that represent clan factions of Nations.  These clans don't always get along.  It actually hurts game play that they can't just fight it out and resolve their differences.  There are entire threads about it going on and on.  But if clan factions could actually rebel or otherwise fight for control of their nations things would not only work smoother but could get a lot more interesting and multi dimensional.

I propose adding Rebellions to the game.  A clan wishing to rebel purchases a grievance writ from the admiralty. On use the writ places a "Rebel" tag on all that clans players in game for 1 week.  It also allows green on green contests where that clan can attack nation mates and be attacked by other nation mates. At the end of the week a new grievance writ must be purchased or the rebellion ends.

This can allow nations to work out control issues and internal political strife on their own. Rebellion writs should be very expensive.

And this brings us closer to clan vs clan gameplay rather than nation vs nation, which what the OW game with independent clans should be in the first place.

+1

[monk33y]

Personally I think rebellions should happen in ports that are rarely visited 

**cough** gulf of Mexico **cough**

If a port receives under say 10 player visits it turns pirate for 48hrs then it turns neutral, so it's open to be captured 

[Skully]

2 hours ago, monk33y said:

Personally I think rebellions should happen in ports that are rarely visited 

**cough** gulf of Mexico **cough**

If a port receives under say 10 player visits it turns pirate for 48hrs then it turns neutral, so it's open to be captured 

Pirates should be able to bring undefended ports to Neutral / Independent.

 

[Elbizor]

The idea of clans rebelling and just being able to kill fellow countrymen is not good, its just got exploit written all over it (though it would be nice to kill alts)

However, I do like the idea that a clan or group of clans could split away and form their own country, clan lead, and take ports (from anyone)

If the Rebellion successfully takes a port it then becomes a nation that only clan members can be part of.  Clan lead and alt free.

 

I

[Hodo]

13 hours ago, Sir Texas Sir said:

I would love to know who we ran out for no reason.  Every one that I know we ran off had very good reason cause they where very toxic players (attacking other pirates not just BLACK) or they where spy/alts of other nations and those guys where trying to cause a split in our nation.  You should hear our nation chat now that they are all gone.  It's very peaceful, folks ask for help and we are supporting each other.   We tell the smaller clans to go do what they want for the most part, but if they want to run up agro and expect our help they need to let us know before had, other wise they are on there own (they found out about this when they put agro on PnP without our help).   If we where so bad a clan than why is it when folks leave other nations they come to us to join, though many of those get butt hurt and become toxic when we refuse to let them join.  Why would we want some one that jumped ship so easily?

Not to point fingers but did any one notice that HELL clan broke up and certain players stayed pirates and formed with other clans, while the toxic players of that clan ran off to US (suspected US alts of that group and PvP1 alts before server merge).   Those same folks have now ran off to Brits with there suspected alt clans?  Cause maybe just maybe we where right about them being alts.   We have screen shots and proof of certain things, but they didn't do anything worthy of a tribunal so we didn't make one for them.  We handled it in house.

Now for one of the problems I seen with something like the Pirate vs Pirates FFA is that big clans can abuse it and pick on little guys.  Just like the old alliance voting system didn't solve anything cause it was all ways going to be the big clans with the numbers that won the vote even if most of the small clans wanted war. Some times having the biggest players/clans is not a good thing for a nation.  Just cause they are older and stable and been around for a long time doesn't mean it's good, just mean they don't run off to other things. 

 

 

I didnt say you ran out anyone for no reason.  I just said if some more toxic clans became the big clan in that nation they could.  

[monk33y]

At the end of the day the big nations conquer large parts of the map, then the regions become deadzones. Some way of forcing nations to visit all active regions would be best in my opinion.

I'd like to see a rebellion take place on an empty (dead) region, turning pirate, open to any and all to capture! Even pirates 

[Sir Texas Sir]

53 minutes ago, monk33y said:

At the end of the day the big nations conquer large parts of the map, then the regions become deadzones. Some way of forcing nations to visit all active regions would be best in my opinion.

I'd like to see a rebellion take place on an empty (dead) region, turning pirate, open to any and all to capture! Even pirates 

That is why a lot of folks say they should have taxes and a degradation system.  If you don't upkeep a region it can fall into chaos/rebellion and can be easy to capture or go neutral.  Though these regions are easy target they tend to be way out of the way too.

[monk33y]

Totally agree tex, I just wish national missions would be introduced. Port x is on the verge or rebellion. You must take 8000 provisions, 10,000 sugar (beers running dangerously low) and 5000 muskets (to re-enforce the garrisons), 5000 British cheese, 9000 Dutch oats etc etc....

The mission last from the point of 'eve of rebellion'. (day of rebellion) to the next server restart. If the goods are not received by the next restart the region becomes neutral or pirate.

Or we use the currant system, showing contested by neutral (rebellion) port requires. List items. If the list is not complete on 24hrs the port goes neutral/pirate.

The items/resources the regions capital requires buys for 1g. Forcing players to either protect the region or make money, not both!

This would give short-term focal points for pvp etc. 

Edited July 6, 2017 by monk33y

[Bach]

We definitely need a mechanic to allow clans to work out their differences in game and with minimum Dev intervention if any.

[Slamz]

Random thought:

"Pirates" could actually be the rebellion mechanic.

1) Pirates are not longer a team. They don't own anything and you can't start as one.

2) At any time, you can choose to "rebel". This causes you to become a hybrid: you are still a member of your nation with all of the features thereof (you still use the same ports, have the same outposts, etc) but on the open world you are "pirate flagged" and can attack -- and be attacked by -- anyone (including other pirates).

3) As a pirate there is some mechanic where you can switch from being, say, a French-Pirate to a British-Pirate. You'll move your stuff from your French outposts into neutral ports, switch to British and then move your stuff into British ports but while you do this you are still pirate flagged.

4) There is some other mechanic for allowing you back into the nation.

This is all rather half-baked.

The idea is that Pirate is no longer a team but rather is a form of outlaw that doubles as a way to switch between factions and if you really have a grief with your nation members, it's something you can temporarily turn into. And some people who really just want kill-everyone lone-wolf play would go pirate and stay that way forever, but it's still playable because functionally they are part of some nation.

Getting out of being a pirate does not have to be easy, though.

Edited July 11, 2017 by Slamz

[Sir Texas Sir]

On 7/6/2017 at 11:12 AM, monk33y said:

Totally agree tex, I just wish national missions would be introduced. Port x is on the verge or rebellion. You must take 8000 provisions, 10,000 sugar (beers running dangerously low) and 5000 muskets (to re-enforce the garrisons), 5000 British cheese, 9000 Dutch oats etc etc....

The mission last from the point of 'eve of rebellion'. (day of rebellion) to the next server restart. If the goods are not received by the next restart the region becomes neutral or pirate.

Or we use the currant system, showing contested by neutral (rebellion) port requires. List items. If the list is not complete on 24hrs the port goes neutral/pirate.

The items/resources the regions capital requires buys for 1g. Forcing players to either protect the region or make money, not both!

This would give short-term focal points for pvp etc. 

I actually like a mission like that, but make it a national thing where it's not just one player filling the honey pot per say.  All those involved maybe gets a discount in that port for production and other things or a slight tax pay out.   There is so much they can do with missions and quest in this game to make it more interesting.  Though we expect those things to come later when and if the game ever gets to beta stage.  They need to get all the basic game mechanics worked out before going for the PvE mission stuff.  Even having decent kill boards missions would be nice too.  Get 10 PvP kills you get a reward.   Get 100 PvE kils and you get something.  They can be something like paints so it's not something folks will cheat to grind for.  The other thing this game needs is a proper reputation system.

20 hours ago, Slamz said:

Random thought:

"Pirates" could actually be the rebellion mechanic.

1) Pirates are not longer a team. They don't own anything and you can't start as one.

2) At any time, you can choose to "rebel". This causes you to become a hybrid: you are still a member of your nation with all of the features thereof (you still use the same ports, have the same outposts, etc) but on the open world you are "pirate flagged" and can attack -- and be attacked by -- anyone (including other pirates).

3) As a pirate there is some mechanic where you can switch from being, say, a French-Pirate to a British-Pirate. You'll move your stuff from your French outposts into neutral ports, switch to British and then move your stuff into British ports but while you do this you are still pirate flagged.

4) There is some other mechanic for allowing you back into the nation.

This is all rather half-baked.

The idea is that Pirate is no longer a team but rather is a form of outlaw that doubles as a way to switch between factions and if you really have a grief with your nation members, it's something you can temporarily turn into. And some people who really just want kill-everyone lone-wolf play would go pirate and stay that way forever, but it's still playable because functionally they are part of some nation.

Getting out of being a pirate does not have to be easy, though.

To be honest they could be used as such now.  The problem is the game tends to turn into every one vs the pirates.  To be honest if folks leave our zone/region alone on the RvR side we will not expand.  Though we will strike up port battles mainly to get PvP.   We could just as easily be hired out to screen battles and cause agro/chaos in a regions if a nation wants help with another nation.  Just about any nation can do this by hiring out a clan from another.  Say BORK and Purge hates each other (yah I know I'm picking on France).  Purge works out of one Region mostly.  Well BORK could hire us to flip that port into a Port Battle and it can be more there prime time than Purge players.  They can come and defend it and push ya'll out of the CM"s you where gaining from that region.  While we don't even have to show to the port battle.  We get paid and move on to our next adventure.

Though your kinda sounding like my proposal to drop the Pirate nation and make them Privateers.  Though while you don't have a letter of Marque you are a Pirate/Outlaw.  This way pirates/privateers can actually help nations (solo or clan base).  Like you said they won't have any RvR regions, but instead have permit Pirate/Privateer havens spread out on the map.  Mostly the free-towns, but a few historically Pirate Ports will be pirate havens for only pirates to use.  While they have a LoM they can use that nations ports, enter the battles and Port Battles.  They still can't craft in those ports, they have to gain there crafting by capture of prize or producing in Pirate Haven ports.   If you get enough reputation in that nation you can actually join it perm.  This is why we really need a reputation system.  To become a privateer if your a national you have to denounce your nation and become a pirate first.  Than get a LoM for a new nation (you will loose a lot of reputation with your former nation for leaving).  Than work up to get the reputation to join the new nation.  Effectively giving players an in game way to switch nations too. You can not create a char as a Pirate either from start, you must become one in game only.  This means all your pirates/privateers all have a home nation they started with.  The reputation system keeps you from having folks switching nations over night, you have to earn it first so that keeps from whole clans switching and making the balance uneven over night.  Even with a LoM any nation even the one that you have a letter with can still attack you.  That gives a down fall of being a Pirate/Privateer your not truelly ever safe until you join that nation.   The LoM just means you are fighting for that nation legally.  Though some one that attacks you from Spain while you have a LoM from Spain will prob loose reputation and has a chance of turning pirate himself cause he attacked you. 

Yah just a system I had posted up several times.  I think they need to step away from Pirates being a nation and have an actual interesting system for them that makes them something none nation like, but also links them to each nation.  This way the game is more about the Nationals and Privateers than about Pirates it self.  This isn't Pirates of the Burning Seas after all.  IT's Naval Action and privateer was a big part of Naval Wars.   While pirates was very small part of such things.  Most pirates where in truly just Privateers without a job cause there was no wars going on.  As soon as one struck up many got pardons and LoM's for one nation or the other.