Hotfix for patch 9.97: Land in port battles

[elite92]

Just now, GeneralPas said:

well right now the port-battle starts at a fix time and defender can join asap from port so i dont see the defenders waiting for the wind to turn to join as it waist time

wut?

[Ned Loe]

Now all Devs have to do is make sure 1st-2nd rates are rare and hard to build, so we don't get 25 1st rates mess again. 

[GeneralPas]

Just now, elite92 said:

wut?

typo, i dont see attacker waiting for better winds as that waists time in the port-battle it self

[elite92]

1 minute ago, Wind said:

Now all Devs have to do is make sure 1st-2nd rates are rare and hard to build, so we don't get 25 1st rates mess again. 

why not a f... slots limit??? allow to enter 2-3 1st rate , 3-4 2nd rate , ecc 10-15 frigates... that would be awesome ffs

[admin]

First post updated 

[admin]

1 minute ago, elite92 said:

why not a f... slots limit??? allow to enter 2-3 1st rate , 3-4 2nd rate , ecc 10-15 frigates... that would be awesome ffs

We have not yet found an elegant solution for ship limitations in pb without the lobby and without griefing potential.

[elite92]

1 minute ago, GeneralPas said:

typo, i dont see attacker waiting for better winds as that waists time in the port-battle it self

uh ok, well its all about preparation of the pb , i think that the the logout-login in front of the swords now it wont happen cause u need to wait 120 seconds to join the cirlces, and maybe also the defender have to wait 2 mins. so attackers have to sail in ow again and have to choose the very right moment or they will be screened or they will enter against the wind

[GeneralPas]

2 minutes ago, elite92 said:

why not a f... slots limit??? allow to enter 2-3 1st rate , 3-4 2nd rate , ecc 10-15 frigates... that would be awesome ffs

no it would not be awesome as it would create a huge problem dictating who takes what ship in the PB
Only way to do that would be to make PB via lobby what is a terrible bad idea

[RaimundoJoe]

Finnaly, an event that rewards everybody who take part. "Thought this day would never come!"

Tks.

[admin]

Just now, GeneralPas said:

no it would not be awesome as it would create a huge problem dictating who takes what ship in the PB
Only way to do that would be to make PB via lobby what is a terrible bad idea

exactly this. 

Lets say BR limit for PB is 5000 pts. Your clan wants to win a PB. Due to harbor capture zones your fleet need several fast ships and mortar brigs in addition to first rates. If the limit for PB is 5000 you plan to take 2-3 first rates, 3-5 third rates to control passages and use fast ships to cap points and mortar brigs to destroy forts. 

Now when you sail to PB you found that 10 friendly santisimas (who also earned the hostility points) already entered the port battle from the OW reaching 5000 limit (10*500). Completely locking you from bringing frigates to cap and mortar brigs to destroy forts. Battle is lost as a result. 

[elite92]

1 minute ago, GeneralPas said:

no it would not be awesome as it would create a huge problem dictating who takes what ship in the PB
Only way to do that would be to make PB via lobby what is a terrible bad idea

what about more hostility u have, bigger ship u can use in pb? suggestions on how not to have 25v25 same ships?

[admin]

23 minutes ago, Angus McGregor said:

Do the two join circles remain open for the entire duration of the PB?

same rules as right now. Battle is open for attackers and defenders for some time. They will spawn where they enter based on their position in the circles.

[elite92]

1 minute ago, admin said:

exactly this. 

Lets say BR limit for PB is 5000 pts. Your clan wants to win a PB. Due to harbor capture zones your fleet need several fast ships and mortar brigs in addition to first rates. If the limit for PB is 5000 you plan to take 2-3 first rates, 3-5 third rates to control passages and use fast ships to cap points and mortar brigs to destroy forts. 

Now when you sail to PB you found that 10 friendly santisimas (who also earned the hostility points) already entered the port battle from the OW reaching 5000 limit (10*500). Completely locking you from bringing frigates to cap and mortar brigs to destroy forts. Battle is lost as a result. 

in the same way now the first who get to the swords, enter and steal the spot . i can simply run with my renomee to the 1st rate pb and steal a spot

[Ned Loe]

11 minutes ago, admin said:

We have not yet found an elegant solution for ship limitations in pb without the lobby and without griefing potential.

Like I said, make 1-2nd rates rare and expensive. People can take them, but in this new slaughter house mechanics, heavy losses are going to happen on both sides. This will make sure SoLs sink and quantities drop. Taking 1st rate will be questionable from now on. Mortar Brig Group is a must. 

[The Spud]

4 minutes ago, elite92 said:

read patch notes pls. attackers choose the wind when they first enter the pb. obviusly they wait until ow wind is good, then it will stay good for some time in pb and then it will be random as usual.

ps: btw i like the new system to enter the pb that mantains both position and wind of the ow, good job here

I read the patchnotes obviously, but I do think the attackers will not wait on wind to change before entering, because:

- The 90 minute timer is running while the defenders have time to take position on the objectives.

- If you wait for wind to change, you're basicaly sitting ducks for screeners.

So I don't believe attackers will be "waiting" to join a PB till the wind changes in their favour.

On PB's like on the image, attackers can enter from best wind angle, but in a PB like Salamanca, belize, and many others. The angles of approach are limited of non existend (salamanca especialy) so you can have situations where you need to sail upwind or risk having to wait 20 minutes for the wind to become reasonably good.

I think it'll take some PB's till the best tactic is found.

[Ned Loe]

4 minutes ago, Hodo said:

So this should be interesting to test.  I can already see some problems that may pop up with alt abuse as per usual.   But it may change the current shift of fighting tactics, for the better, which may be worse for the game.   As most of the current fighting population seem to be only oriented towards arena fights and not actual sailing.   

Well here is hoping this is fun.  But ultimately it is the standard Conquest mode from Mechwarrior Online, or CoD.

Battlefield all the way

[Ned Loe]

5 minutes ago, The Spud said:

I read the patchnotes obviously, but I do think the attackers will not wait on wind to change before entering, because:

- The 90 minute timer is running while the defenders have time to take position on the objectives.

- If you wait for wind to change, you're basicaly sitting ducks for screeners.

So I don't believe attackers will be "waiting" to join a PB till the wind changes in their favour.

On PB's like on the image, attackers can enter from best wind angle, but in a PB like Salamanca, belize, and many others. The angles of approach are limited of non existend (salamanca especialy) so you can have situations where you need to sail upwind or risk having to wait 20 minutes for the wind to become reasonably good.

I think it'll take some PB's till the best tactic is found.

I think this waiting on wind thing is not good. Just add Dice Roll and make random wind spawn happen. Surprise for both sides like nature likes to do it. 

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/dice/dice.htm

[elite92]

1 hour ago, admin said:

from this screenshot seems that the attackers are able to join directly in 2 conquest zone, or am i missing something?

[Angus McGregor]

6 minutes ago, elite92 said:

from this screenshot seems that the attackers are able to join directly in 2 conquest zone, or am i missing something?

You can't see the large attack join circle without zooming in on the screenshot. It is around the lower zone (crossed swords).

Edit: LOL... I missed the really huge attack circle around all 3 control zones.

Edited December 19, 2016 by Angus McGregor

[admin]

1 minute ago, elite92 said:

from this screenshot seems that the attackers are able to join directly in 2 conquest zone, or am i missing something?

no.. there are 5 circles on the screen. large outside one.. smaller inside one. and 3 capture zones. 

Attackers will be able to join anywhere outside of the large circle. its just not showing well due to fog.

[DeRuyter]

14 minutes ago, admin said:

We have not yet found an elegant solution for ship limitations in pb without the lobby and without griefing potential.

Elegant solution is also the hard solution = shallows and drafts. But as you said not in, too complex programing 

Still we need to test. I think new system will still add to ship variety - capture circle close to large fort = hard for 1st rate to stay there without Mortar Brig. Capture circle far upwind - need fast small ship to get points quickly. We shall see.

[The Spud]

Just now, Wind said:

I think this waiting on wind thing is not good. Just add Dice Roll and make random wind spawn happen. 

Well the wind is the only thing we have that might disencourage logging out in front of port. Cause in this PB situation it is extra favourable to log out, caus you can set up a good formation. Where if attackers would sail in, the chances of having a good formation/timing is very slim.

[Angus McGregor]

23 minutes ago, Wind said:

I think this waiting on wind thing is not good. Just add Dice Roll and make random wind spawn happen. 

The only way the attackers can afford to wait on the wind is if the PB duration timer doesn't actually begin until the first attacker enters the PB (edited). *IF* that's true there will need to be a limit on how long this waiting for the wind can go on.

Edited December 19, 2016 by Angus McGregor

[elite92]

2 minutes ago, admin said:

no.. there are 5 circles on the screen. large outside one.. smaller inside one. and 3 capture zones. 

Attackers will be able to join anywhere outside of the large circle. its just not showing well due to fog.

maybe i misread the patch notes so... attackers can join anywhere OUTSIDE the bigger circle? and defenders anywhere inside the smaller cirlce? so no ships can join between the circles?

[admin]

1 minute ago, elite92 said:

maybe i misread the patch notes so... attackers can join anywhere OUTSIDE the bigger circle? and defenders anywhere inside the smaller cirlce? so no ships can join between the circles?

yes. 

the size of the circles is a draft and will be tuned during testing.