Complete redefinition of Naval Action

[The_Scipio]

Well even though I'm not active in this game anymore and haven't been for quite a while now. (But I truly want to return, if they find a way to make the game fun, again)

I'll try give a shot at proposing something which might cater both the RVR player and the WOWS player style. People keep talking about the style of the game, should it be OW RVR focused only?, thereby only catering for the hardcore players? Or should it be more arcade like just like WOWS catering for the more casual players? That discussion leads nowhere other than a continued arguing about rights and wrongs, combining both concepts in this game should be possible, in fact the foundation is available already.

OW - RVR

What I suggest is, keep the OW RVR, but improve it (That has been said numerous times, and even louder since patch 9.96 which was horrible imo.) anyway, OW should be OW but without much meaning other than creating an OW environment, which would cater traders, smugglers, PVP'ers and all other types of players including PVE'ers.

Now before everyone starts screaming "we have it all now" Why say it again, let me quickly say, yes OW does exist today, but is it fun? Everyone is using and abusing exploits, each new patch introduced a new exploit option for abusing.

Below I have tried to summarize what I believe could make Naval Action fun again, and keep it fun!

 

Teleporting ships (Skip it entirely, but increase OW speeds by 100%)

The title says it all, no more teleporting, but increase speed in OW by 100% or let the player pay for a transport of he’s ship to a wanted destination where the player has an outpost, with the risk of the escort fleet being attacked and the ship captured. This effectively means that either way implies a risk of losing the ship either by sailing it yourself or having it sailed as an AI. A large payout for the transport means a bigger AI fleet up to a certain limit only, a smaller payout means a smaller AI fleet. Only the transported ship can be captured and only in battle will it be visible which ship can be captured. However even though the playership is in fact now an AI ship, it will fight harder and hence be harder to capture since it can carry various upgrades etc., but it can be captured though, whereas the AI fleet ships hired to escort the playership cannot be captured. Should an attempt to capture fail, the AI fleet will respawn at a random point, so that it cannot be planned to just continue to attack until the fleet is sunk and the ship is captured.

OW: BR / Battletimer (Skip it!)

Skip everything that can be abused, skip the battle timer, skip the 20 sec. wait timer when you tagged or got tagged, if you are alongside a ship and press attack, you are alongside that ship when battle starts!, if people are close and want to join the battle, let them - and that goes for both sides, which means no BR limit - this will effectively deal with ganking fleets - but then again, superior fleets was a natural thing in those days, so why whine about it? Having no BR limit, and no time limit, gank fleets can be countered, if wanted.

OW: Personal fleets (Skip it) / introducing convoys instead.

Skip the option of personal fleets for all players, do you want a fleet to escort you, either get someone to help you, or pay for the escort fleet, this includes AI fleets, but here with a max no. of ships and BR allowed. One option here could be, that you put out a tender or hire someone, just like you once did for materials (Sorry guys, it's really been a long time since I played this game....).

Convoys could also be included, an announcement was made in a specific harbor, that at a certain date / time, a convoy will leave with a certain destination, then a player or trader can either sign up for the escort role or being escorted (If he sails a trader). The convoy can consist of several nations, but once in the convoy you all sail under the same flag and can be attacked by others and not attack your fellow convoy sailors. In order to avoid exploits the information of the convoy, and destination should be kept confidential. And all who’s interested should pay a fee to participate (players wrongfully abusing the convoy principle should have a penalty / fee to pay….not really sure how to avoid exploits here. Maybe by giving the convoys a random start point, so when you are in the convoy and ready to sail and a timer counts down, the convoy will spawn in a random point within a certain distance from the harbor (Could be an option) so an immediately attack can be avoided and thereby give the convoy a fighting chance.

 OW: Logging off in battlescreen (allow 30 min. then you will return to OW no matter what)

First of all, increase

the overall battletimer from 90 min. to 120 min

It has been proposed before, that when you are in battle, sometimes a huge enemy fleet is waiting just outside the two crossed swords, meaning you will exit battle basically on top of an enormous revenge fleet. This usually results in people camping in battlescreen. Instead provide these people with options!

A way to counter this battlescreen camping is that the distance you travel while in battle shall be linked to the open world, so that once you exit battle it wont be at the predictable spot X, but instead at point Y or Z, based on what direction the player headed inside the battle, and the speed he was sailing at - this also means, that now it will be an advantage not to exit battle instantly, but instead use whatever time there's left to sail as far away as possible from where the battle started, meaning the player could actually have a real chance of escaping now.

If you on the other hand decides to exit battle instantly and sit in battlescreen, you can do so while you go to the toilet, get something to drink etc. but you have only 30 min. in battlescreen then you'll get kicked, HOWEVER! a third option should be introduced, hence the increase of the battletimer from 90 min. to 120 min.

Instead of only having two options stay in battle and spend the time sailing trying to escape by creating a greater distance from whatever you expect to be on the outside waiting for you, or log out into battlescreen, a third option should be introduced, give the option of logging back into the now empty battle from the battlescreen (This option gives the player the option of doing some personal things after battle like getting something to eat, drink, toilet visits etc.) and still providing them with an option of a escape.

Also in regard to the crossed swords, make them increasingly smaller depending on where the battle goes (though the crossed swords should disappear once the battle is ended. Could also solve the battlescreen camping because of revenge fleets.

OW: Map coordinates (Get rid of them)

Map coordinates as they are now, helps navigation, but also makes it too easy, to report enemy ships and their position, return to how the map looked before summer 2016 e.g. no coordinates.

OW: Special ships /Special perks / upgrades

Make these so-called "hard-to-get" ships / perks / upgrades available for everyone. OK by participating in tournaments, you get them faster, but still, they should not be exclusive as they are now.

Every crafter in this game who is dedicated enough should be able to obtain these blueprints etc. without participating in tournaments or whatever, but it should be a hard job for them to get them this way.

OW: AI fleets (Reduce size and make them more diversified)

AI fleets should be aggressive and have the role of a more stationary / predictable form of patrolling territorial waters. Meaning if a player from a hostile nation is within a certain distance, the nation AI fleets will attack the player. However in this instance no other human players from the outside will be allowed to join the battle on neither side, unless the player under attack was sailing in a group with another player or more players from the same nation, then these players will be pulled into battle as well.

Officer and officer perks

You hire an officer for a type of ship, you train him but you cannot retrain the officer to fulfill other roles without losing experience on the officer. This approach counters how officers today also are being exploited but giving them different perks. Once a perk is chosen it will cost you severely to reset a perk and chose another one. Also you cannot use an officer trained on a SOL on a frigate, or a trader, each officer have special abilities and skills. And likewise, if you have an officer who is not being used actively for a certain time, he will slowly lose some of he’s skill (he will grow old). Maybe also skip the officer lives? Regardless of your ship being captured or sunk, the officer always lives, but you MUST pay a tribute to the player who saved your officer in order to get the officer back (The tribute should be fixed and reflect the officers skills / perks / level) and governed by game mechanics, however once the officer is back he will have lost some of he’s skills or perks, meaning he will come back demoted. So if you have an admiral, he will only be a commodore now. The officers skills could in fact also be linked to how the ship he’s commanding performs (independent of the perks he has)….

The tribute thing could be expanded to also include captured ships, so if a player loses he’s ship, he could have the option of buying it back………….from the capturer.

WOWS style arena battle

Change small / large battle into the arena style we see in WOWS. This means PVP, but with no risk of losing your ship like now. However the earnings from such battles should therefore also be decreased. Also no upgrades etc. will be allowed in these battle types.

Small / Large battles will be fought on equal terms / setups, the only difference would be the different wood types of the ships participating. And the officer you have on board the ship. Also there should be a mix of ships in each battle, meaning you could chose to enter a large battle in a Cerberus, because even though it’s a large battle each fleet would consist of groups of each ship classes just like historical naval battles. So the Cerberus joining would have to fight ships of its own size, or larger depending on where the player sails.

[The_Scipio]

18 minutes ago, sruPL said:

You think Devs will read / response to it?

Actually no, I don't expect them to read it - maybe read, but not to comment, anyhow the devs. asked for contributions and ideas, this is what I had of ideas to make the OW more open, by providing more alternatives and roles to the OW. right now options and roles in OW are limited. My idea could bring new life into OW and more action.

OW: BR / Battletimer (Skip it!) - hell no, defensive tags everywhere that one could be tweaked,

 

[Jean Ribault]

Every one of these things has been suggested in other threads.  Nothing new in this one.  Some may have some merit, but there are discussions related to them if you search.

Edited November 30, 2016 by Jean Ribault

[Angus McGregor]

2 minutes ago, Jean Ribault said:

Every one of these things has been suggested in other threads.  Nothing new in this one.

I think the suggestion to get rid of the map coordinates was new.  I completely agree with the "Oh hell no" reaction, but it was a suggestion I haven't seen before.  

[Jean Ribault]

Even the map coordinates was discussed after being implemented (suggested by some to eliminate, those that would see NA more true to history and not have GPS added in).  Without offering my opinion on that one, since I don't really have a problem with or without the coordinates, either way works for me, my observation is that they will probably stay as-is for final release.  Just based on a lack of input from devs after the change was made.

Edited November 30, 2016 by Jean Ribault

[The_Scipio]

These are my suggestions, maybe they have been suggested in other threads buried deeply in them, hence why I haven't paid attention to them, Anyways off to Armored Warfare to get some action. So long sailors

Edited November 30, 2016 by The_Scipio
spell

[Anne Wildcat]

Maybe make map coordinates an officer perk?

Map coordinates, I believe, were added to help find shipwrecks. I loved the feeling of getting lost and having to find my way when I first started playing with no coordinates. Or, I think someone suggested, give 1 ordinate as either latitude or longitude (can't remember) was easy to figure out. 

Edited November 30, 2016 by Anne Wildcat

[Blaatand]

10 hours ago, Anne Wildcat said:

Maybe make map coordinates an officer perk?

Map coordinates, I believe, were added to help find shipwrecks. I loved the feeling of getting lost and having to find my way when I first started playing with no coordinates. Or, I think someone suggested, give 1 ordinate as either latitude or longitude (can't remember) was easy to figure out. 

Really???

I have met a few motor sailors lost but that's it.

As an IRL circum navigator I couldn't disagree more

Lat long should be exactly that LATITUDE, Longitude - I often get confused with the unconventional layout in NA!!!!

Many treat 1700 hundred navigation as if it was primitive but I have actually entered ports on pacific islands using charts marked in the bottom with "last updated by captain cook" (Latest edition English charts). I also used sextant on my first circumnavigation and found that precision would be as good as 2NM on clear days

 

OW: Personal fleets (Skip it) / introducing convoys instead.

NO. But make it to protect traders only:

player AI fleet if ONLY warships for a trade ship or traders for a warship (these traders can carry goods)

Edited December 1, 2016 by Blaatand
added a comment

[Rebel Witch]

13 hours ago, Hodo said:

I am not going to quote but respond to the points I don't really agree with.

OW speeds increase by 100%.  That wont fix the issue, but setting it for 2x ships listed speed would help.  Right now to sail from Turtle Cay in the Bahamas to Wilmington NC, takes about 30-45min real time in a trader lynx doing an average of 14kn.  When that ship is capable of 10kn at the same point of sail in battle.  

I do not think increasing open water speed will save the game in the long run. people will only get bored with that speed and expect faster eventually.

 

I really hope the dev's give my "fast forward" spots a shot because that keeps the integrity of OW speed as it is, keeping the vastness of the open world bigger. It really is a special thing. However with "fast forward" spots players have options to teleport quickly to a connected spot, if they so choose. Those spots would also be breeding grounds for PVP action so if you want pvp, you know where to go.

 

 

[Rebel Witch]

5 hours ago, Hodo said:

I went and played Star Trek Online (STO) for a few, and found that they have slower travel speeds than we do.  But it can be increased through mods and such.  But it is still about the same speeds as here. 

The idea of "trade wind" spots would be nice, but would break the emersion factor for some including myself. 

Ultimately fixing the OW speeds to double listed speed of the ship, would help a great deal.   Now it makes no sense that a 12kn Constitution can run down a 14kn Trinc in OW, but in battle cant even stay near it.

 

I like the term Trade Winds. That sounds better than Fast Forward spots.

 

I think even if they were to add Trade Wind spots (similar to jump gates in EVE Online) to cut down time spent on really long distance travel. People would still have the option to manually sail it by just avoiding the Trade Wind spots. Which many would likely do if they dont have escort or a scout since Trade Wind spots may be camped by PVP'rs

 

Whatever they do i hope it makes the game more fun.

[admin]

On 11/30/2016 at 5:44 PM, The_Scipio said:

Actually no, I don't expect them to read it - maybe read, but not to comment, anyhow the devs. asked for contributions and ideas, this is what I had of ideas to make the OW more open, by providing more alternatives and roles to the OW. right now options and roles in OW are limited. My idea could bring new life into OW and more action.

OW: BR / Battletimer (Skip it!) - hell no, defensive tags everywhere that one could be tweaked,

 

dont listen to haters Captain

we always read good structured posts and always jot down ideas from them. Some of which could be done in this game, some wont and will have to wait for the next.

[Koltes]

First of all we are on a same mission and desire to improve the game. The trouble that you have with your summed ideas is that they are parts of different game mechanics and would need a new gameplay system to fit. It is totally fine if you have such game mechanics thought through and proposed. But right now are are fixing holes of a barrel that just faintly holds together. We need the gameplay system that everyone is generally happy about. It is definitely doable. In fact such system has already shown signs of existence though on paper only. Just needs to be heard

Answering your post specifically:

 

Teleporting ships (Skip it entirely, but increase OW speeds by 100%)

If you mean no teleporting of your ship from OW then definite NO. This mechanic is not abused and gives non-uber option to skip frustrating sail ones in a while. Less frustration = more fun.
If you mean teleport ships from battle screen then again NO. This needs to be regulated by gameplay mechanics.
1. Player can only take so many crew on board. Extension can be reached by having Marines who can be transferred to crew if needed;
2. Players are allowed to have multiple officers on board;
3. When crew dies they are not magically replaceable from Free Crew, but rather reduced number restored from Doc perk, after battle recruiting etc.;
4. From battle screen ship can be sent to your outpost IF: a.) min required crew assigned to sail the ship; b.) an officer assigned to sail that ship to outpost; c.) "teleported" ship does not appear at the outpost instantly, but it takes few hours for it to get there;
5. By sending ships to outposts player reduces his own crew that is currently sailing with him.

 

 

OW: BR / Battletimer (Skip it!)

You mean Attack timer not battlescreen timer right? I agree with that. Why have a timer? If you see something in the open world just get into the action like you would in real life.
HOWEVER! There are people on the other side of the planet who play this game (like me for example) who have much longer loading time due to distant connections. The time allows to give people with distant connections or slow computers to catch up. The attack timer issues needs to be address later, but right now not a priority. Its fine as it is.
BR on the other hand needs to be removed. Instead sailing characteristics of a ship needs to be properly reflected in OW.
Two Renommees of different construction, speed and sails while have different speeds in battle they also needs to be different in OW. Players themselves will create ship setups usable for the intended job.
 

 

OW: Personal fleets (Skip it) / introducing convoys instead.

Do not skip fleet. Fleet needs to be crew regulated. Having ships in fleet should allow to carry more crew to the battle. Instead when loading the battle give option to send fleet ships away and keep distance (not participate in battle). They will still appear on the battle screen after the battle, but not going to be in the actual combat. Also if feel ships have minimum crew this should also affect how AI performs. In fact crew damages needs to have higher penalties on AI. Right now if AI is ordered to demast there is like a rain of chains coming in non stop. Reduce AI shooting performance that is all that is required.

Re Player convoys.
Should be organized by players themselves. Give merchants more profit and increase value of goods hauled. Make it possible to pay others to provide security.
What you are proposing (sign up through game means) can be exploited real easy. Any pirate alt will take the job with pleasure.

Re: deliveries
On the other hand player made delivery missions needs to be implemented. Like in EVE, player creates delivery contract. He packs his cargo (only he can unpack it) and creates delivery contract and sets the security bond that is payable by person who accepts the contract and refunded upon delivery and the payment for completing contract.
I'm personally not a delivery guy, but if I know I'm gonna travel A to B, then I will look up delivery contracts I cold take on my way there.

 

 

 OW: Logging off in battlescreen (allow 30 min. then you will return to OW no matter what)

30 mins for battle screen timer is too much. It would still allow to be abused such as ambushing in battlescreen outside capitals. Battle instance is there only to reduce lag and should not be used as means to get in or avoid combat. All that needs to be done in OW itself (running/chasing).
Battlescreen timer - 3 mins. That's enough to take a leak or dump, have a cigi, sort your ships and crew in the battle screen, grab a drink etc.
If player has closed the game while in battlescreen, then his ship should immediately get out of battle screen to the OW and normal 3 min loggin off timer starts (yes loggin off timer needs to be increased to 3 mins). During this time the ship can be attacked and capped all the same as of now when you close the game while in OW. This will stop player from logging off from battlescreen.

2 hours for the battle itself seems to be ok. 1.5 hours sometimes not enough.
Agree that in battle travel needs to be reflected where you are getting out of combat in OW too.

 

 

OW: Map coordinates (Get rid of them)

I agree with the identification of the problem, dont agree with the solution though.
Keep coordinates, instead remove GPS.
Introduce mini game that represents sextant that will give you approximate location like a size of a square. It should take couple of minutes or so to tell your location. At night this feature will be switched off.
- Stop abusing GPS during chases - sorted.
- Still allow players to find way home and not to get lost completely - sorted

 

 

OW: Special ships /Special perks / upgrades

Its OK to grant players one of a kind ships as special rewards. Those ships needs to be sinkable / captureable though so continues to be a trophy.
It is NOT ok to give player a BP and solo ability to craft such ships.
It is NOT ok to make those ships available to everyone either. They are rewards. They should be unique, but BP instead of a ship is just wrong and disbalancing the game.

Everything else should be craftable by everyone yes. Like L'Ocean and H.Rattle.
Premium ships needs to be introduced in the game. 5-4 rate. Those ships have no use in PVP and are generally of average quality, but allows to sail with lesser number of crew and generates more XP and gold from killing AI. So they are good for lower rank players to earn extra cash and level faster doing missions.
The premium ships cannot be added to fleet neither they can be sailed with fleet.

 

 

OW: AI fleets (Reduce size and make them more diversified)

YES to general idea. NO to details.

Re: AI fleet should be aggressive and patrolling the area.
It is not as simple as it may appear as touches too many other game mechanics. This needs to be a part of different conquest / hostility mechanic system.

Yes. This needs to be done as a replacement of current coastal defenses. Size and strength of the fleet needs to be dependent on nation influence level it has in the region (part of different conquest mechanic introduced earlier on forums) ala EVE security level of the system, so there are areas that are pvp free as there is no security, but higher rewards for missions, trading, crafting.

Re: AI agro
Needs to be dependent on player hostility status (also part of different conquest mechanic introduced earlier on forums).
AI argo triggers if:
- players is at war with AI nation;
- player's hostility has reached level allowed by the region's security status;
- player has black flag and no letter of marque granted by the nation of the AI;
- AI agro can be triggered if player has meet any of the above and within distance from the AI fleet;
- AI agro can be triggered outside distance from AI fleet (forcing AI patrol come looking for the player) if player's hostility level has reached maximum

 

Officer and officer perks

What you are proposing is like a mini officer game. Might have some merits, but with all the honesty not gonna be implemented due to being whole other game. There are too many other things to worry about right now and too many "easy fixes" for officers not to do above that.

To make usable, but easy to implement there should be 2 types of officers.

Those who sail with the ship (hired for a specific ship and remain on the ship in form of upgrade):
- Carpenter
- Surgeon
- Master Gunner
etc

Those who are players own officers and transferred to the ship with the player (follows the player) :
- Quarter Master
- Boatswain
etc

Those who are "with the player" (Quarter Master, Boatswain etc) are the ones that are sent to sail ships to outpost from the battle screen. You get the ship in the end, but loosing officer bonuses while you currently sailing.

 

 

WOWS style arena battle

Proper mechanics for OW game that requires lots of sailing should target both MMO type and pub type player. However, if you create WOT type pub matches this will kill the OW completely. Players will get their PVP fix quick and easy and walk away from the game.
PVP evens might not be such a bad idea if done properly. So let them implement it and see how its gonna work. I don't want to speculate on this as no one has the right info yet.
it will most probably fail or be very unbalanced, but should gives us more ideas to work on.

The ultimate type of OW will be dev driven map of permanent nation land and free-for-all land that is capturable and that gives best cream.
Conquest mechanics needs to encourage pvp by creating conflict zone, high value loot spawn zone, great trade routes ala Spanish Silver Route where you know people will haul high profit cargo which also means they will be hiring player convoys.

 

[Koltes]

4 hours ago, admin said:

dont listen to haters Captain

we always read good structured posts and always jot down ideas from them. Some of which could be done in this game, some wont and will have to wait for the next.

@admin Good to hear Sir.
Part of frustration players have is due to uncertainty of where the next of development is gonna take them.

If I take my time and do a full write up of a complete game mechanics that is not too far off from what you currently have, but keeps the game interesting and fun and has support of many players will you read and confirm what will you consider to implement and what will not even be looked at?
I just need reassurance that few hours / days of my work will not be wasted for nothing and will be heard.