Adding new factions Russia / Prussia

[amosblanco]

If Prussia and Russia are both added (two of them never established an solid foothold in the Carribean Sea) , why not Italian? Polish?  They also have a solid player base.... Some even suggested adding Australia....  How about China, Japan, India? 

 

If we add nations based on the nationalities of players playing this game, i could not imagine what the game, which is heavily historical based, would look like. This is Naval Action, not the United Nation  in which every nation should get a representation.... LOL

[Wilson09]

If you mentioned the Duchy of Courland and Semigallia (vasall state of Poland-Lithuania)

I´d certainly investigate this issue with you any further. But "LOL" says me, you have no intention, right?

 

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“All truth passes through three stages: First, it is ridiculed;

Second, it is violently opposed; Third, it is accepted as self-evident.”
(A. Schopenhauer)

Edited April 13, 2016 by Wilson09

[Wilson09]

http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/4362-friedrich-wilhelm-zu-pferde-4th-rate-with-plans/

[Sir James Alexander Gordon]

Right, I think I want a nation for all the German small states then. I think the Holy Roman Empire consisted out of 300 small states.

 

No seriously! We don't need more nations, we need less. We all saw how the Danish demolished the Swedes and the French. They had simply to less players. So we need less nations to balance the game and the player base. For example Sweden and Denmark played a minor role in the Caribbean historically.

 

Without those nations the game would still have a lot of nations to choose from, but it would be more balanced. That is why we don't need Russia or Prussia in this game.

[Wilson09]

I agree.

If the game and combat mechanics are designed that way,

that more factions/states are not suitable, there is no point.

 

I am trying to figure out something here...wait.

I have not given up yet...

[Jahossi53]

adding more nations would just split the community even further. sweden and denmark would lose most of their players and those countries  acutally had colonies there

Edited April 13, 2016 by Jahossi53

[Wilson09]

adding more nations would just split the community even further. sweden and denmark would lose most of their players and those countries  acutally had colonies there

Agreed, I have a solution for it...I don´t want to come up with some suggestion,

which is of no use at all.

 

Right now, there are certainly other problems to be solved...

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Uvf, believe me. This is a lot of work to write it down. As I don´t want to repeat some existing ideas,

I need to check all the posts.

 

I give myself 2 weeks...we all have other things to do.

Edited April 14, 2016 by Wilson09

[Wilson09]

The Italian colonization of the Americas was limited to a failed attempt by the Grand Duchy of Tuscany 

to create a colony in the Atlantic northern area of South America in the early 1600s.

 

 

why not Italian? Polish?  They also have a solid player base.... Some even suggested adding Australia....  How about China, Japan, India? 

There is no reason to add a new nation into the game when the conquest mechanics do not support it. As a Spanish player on PvP2 where we were woefully outnumbered by our enemies, we were struggling for basic resource consumption against larger and more numerical foes.

 

In the future if conquest mechanics are more in favor of fewer, more meaningful engagements/changes on the campaign map then perhaps it may be more feasible to have additional factions.

 

Maybe even AI factions in the distant future?

 

You nailed it.

So, here we go. Check the link please....

 

http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/13343-conquest-mechanics-diplomacy-vassal-states/

[Slamz]

Anyone interested in the historical aspect of this game isn't going to be interested in seeing a map full of Russia.

 

I think at the point we are adding Russia, we might as well give up any pretense towards historical aspects and just allow players to create their own nations (which they may call "Russia" or "Bob's Empire" if they want to).

[daHeld]

I find this a very good idea. It strikes me as odd, that one of the biggest player bases, the Russians are deprived of any representation. It is somewhat unfair. Right now the Russians mostly play for the Danes (I don't know what the Danish players think of that...), which in the long run should only be a stop-gap solution.

 

As a German national, I think a German faction is not as necessary, but would still be nice. I play for the British right now and are quite content, except for that pirate menace. (Should they really be a full fledged nation?)

 

So I heartily support the OPs idea.

 

Of course, that deviates from the historical facts, and I'm normally a friend of the utmost accuracy, but in this case, it wouldn't hurt my feelings  ...

And after all, we already have at least three Russian ships in-game. So why not the Nation, too?

 

[Wilson09]

Russia will be in the game anyway. Later. As plans for this game head into the direction of "uprising"

and form new nations, or either linking it to new maps (Baltics, Europe), Russia will conquer colonies

in the Carribean (and Poland?).

 

So. In terms of "historical accuracy", it is vital to set a good starting point heavily linked to the historical setup

at this special point. THe information given:

"You can sail under the flag of nations that historically had presence in the Caribbean

(had at least one port from 1600 to 1830)" is too broad and open in my opinion. 

Further, there is a clear focus on ships in the late 18th centruy.

 

What comes after is in player´s hand (certainly leading to Spain´s fall, as there will be never enough players)

 

Another approach would be, to lead the game a "historical path", aiding certain factions with AI-events or fllets invading,

therefore forcing the game to "replay" a historical time period.

 

I believe, this is not on the list.

 

I put my money on it, that one day you will see

Brandenburg-Prussia / Courland and Russia in the Carribean....

Edited April 20, 2016 by Wilson09

[Thonaga]

As mentioned before there haven't been much german/prussian colonies in the region. But the german influence was still there. For example under the Regent Karl V (Carlos V) of the House of Habsburg who was Emperor of the Holy Roman Empire as well as King of Spain.

 

What was not mentioned before is that there where german colonizers before the brandenburgians or prussians got there. Between 1528 and 1546 there where some ambitions of an Trading-Company from Augsburg who found the colony of Klein-Venedig (Little Venice) at the coast of Venezuela. They founded the cities of Neu-Augsburg (Coro / the capital of Klein-Venedig) and Neu-Nürnberg (New-Nuremberg / today known as Maracaibo) and ruled over 900 km coastline. But in the end the spanish took their land.

 

So if the will to put a german nation in the game is there there would be enough historical presence to justify it. 

 

I would prefer to raise my flag for a german Nation in the future if the mechanics allow it.

[Razgriz von Preussen]

Hmmm..what might I, the guy with Prussia in his name, have to say here I wonder..?

 

I will never attempt to hide the fact that I think it would be amazing to raise the flag of Prussia or the German Reich from my ship as I let my cannon send some "aggressive diplomacy" towards the French...or anyone else in the way!

 

That being said, I see more justification in Portugal being added before any other "left-out" nation. Do I even need to argue that at this point? However, there is also justification for some Germanic representation here, as proven by the evidence of earlier posts. Also of note, I do not see any merit to limiting the Russians to force picking a Scandinavian nation, or a Dutch nation, when Russia is contributing ships towards other national fleets...it makes no sense at all there. If we can represent the ships they built, we should be prepared to represent the nation that built them.

 

Now, speaking on the "historical" aspect of these posts, allow me to add something that has yet to be said here...those of you wishing to fully immerse yourself in a historical reproduction, you will never get it in a MMO game. The very moment the game allows hundreds, thousands, or more to change the world around you, it no longer becomes historical anyway. If pirates can join together to claim half the ports of the Gulf of Mexico, why not imagine that Russia, Brandenburg/Prussia/Germany, or Italy sensed the grip of the current powers in the region start to weaken and attempted to send fleets to capture ports in the name of their respective empires? Each of these nations had the means and the motivation to set up colonies in the region, and had Britain, Spain, and France not been as strong here (and if Portugal were completely absent from the region), then history may very well have turned into Germanic caribbean, Russian NA, Italian SA, etc.

 

Please respect this game for what it is. This is NOT a historical movie, to be played out on a grand scale that holds your hand through the age of sail...it is a fully player created and player influence video game set in a world roughly based on the age of sail. Keeping this in mind, I see no reason why Portugal, Russia, Brandenburg, or any other European expansionist empire couldn't appear here.

 

TL;DR - Portugal should be in the game before any other nation. Germanic people (Brandenburg, Prussia, Germany) have legitimate reason for being in-game. Russia, Germany, Italy, and possibly others have a legit claim (imho) to be in-game based on the impact of piracy that is much worse than history leading to a "weakness" in the region that these other, "lesser" nations would have tried to capitalize on in order to gain a foothold in the New World.

[Eishen]

 That being said, I see more justification in Portugal being added before any other "left-out" nation. Do I even need to argue that at this point? 

 

I think I can argue about this  , If my history classess do not fail me portugal did not ever had presence in this map, see "treaty of tordesillas" .

 

     Even being a long standing british ally portugal and spain have been allways "comdened" to mutual understanding and tried for the most part of stay out of the others matters... war between the two countries being indeed mostly "fake" wars.

[Cmdr RideZ]

A nation for russians, or an option to filter cyrillic alphabets from chat.

[Razgriz von Preussen]

I think I can argue about this  , If my history classess do not fail me portugal did not ever had presence in this map, see "treaty of tordesillas" .

 

     Even being a long standing british ally portugal and spain have been allways "comdened" to mutual understanding and tried for the most part of stay out of the others matters... war between the two countries being indeed mostly "fake" wars.

This tells me that you indeed listened to your teachers...and are not applying practical reasoning here.

 

My logic is based on logistical practicalities of long-term voyages across the vast areas of sea. Yes, the treaty drew an imaginary line on a map and said "you get this side, you get that side" in a sense...however, that does not mean that ships would not be in these areas as they went across from Iberia to the Americas and back. Although during most of the period of this game, Portugal and Spain weren't the best of friends, the early 19th century saw them allied against France when France attempted to take over both countries. Why do I bring this up? To get to my next point...

 

Trade in the Caribbean wasn't exclusive to routes from the New to the Old world. Colonies often traded with each other for many reasons, including those of Spain and Portugal. It stands to reason that Portuguese trade ships (and pirates) would venture into NA's current waters.

 

Treaties are nothing more than paper, and in reality many rules and demands of various treaties were ignored often, especially by civilians. The treaty of tordesillas is no exception to this.