Victory Conditions

[Sam32120]

This is to provide a reason to actually fight a nation

1) all ports are conquer able

2) capitoles and regional capitols have significantly larger defences

3) capturing a capitol gives the occupier an increased xp per battle

4) nations without a capitol get less xp per battle but increased labor hr regen(to promote ship building)

5) when a nation is conquered its population is transferred to the next smallest nation

6) once a nation has captured all capitols the map resets people are returned to thief original faction and a 2 day peace treaty occures

7) the previous winners get -5% to gold earned in battle

[Wilson09]

Nce ideas...

[Galileus]

This is to provide a reason to actually fight a nation

1) all ports are conquer able

2) capitoles and regional capitols have significantly larger defences

3) capturing a capitol gives the occupier an increased xp per battle

4) nations without a capitol get less xp per battle but increased labor hr regen(to promote ship building)

5) when a nation is conquered its population is transferred to the next smallest nation

6) once a nation has captured all capitols the map resets people are returned to thief original faction and a 2 day peace treaty occures

7) the previous winners get -5% to gold earned in battle

 

1) First nation to get port wiped looses 75% of it's playerbase

2) Second nation to get port wiped looses 75% of it's playerbase

...

X) Two last nations now don't have enough population to force one another to get wiped.

...

Z) The map wiped itself as the last player leaves

[Sam32120]

1) First nation to get port wiped looses 75% of it's playerbase

2) Second nation to get port wiped looses 75% of it's playerbase

...

X) Two last nations now don't have enough population to force one another to get wiped.

...

Z) The map wiped itself as the last player leaves

Quite honestly if people care that deeply about the color of their nations flag then they need to wake up and realize it's a game and all games have a winner. Games without winners slowly bleed players because they run out of things to do and goals to accomplish. With these win conditions players can swap to whomever is getting steamrolled and try to rebuild tha nation to conquer the world.

[Hethwill]

I win every time I step into the deck and find some action.

 

Believe it or not the game is as simple as that and it never ends.

 

 

For the Nation level warfare I would suggest a more in-depth design rather than the Risk game.

At first we need to have a mechanic on how to play Diplomacy, given it is the main obstacle at the Nation level.

But let's see what the Land update bring and how the port battles evolve and how traders get affected when intercepted in the OW.

[Wilson09]

1) First nation to get port wiped looses 75% of it's playerbase

2) Second nation to get port wiped looses 75% of it's playerbase

...

X) Two last nations now don't have enough population to force one another to get wiped.

...

Z) The map wiped itself as the last player leaves

 

1) games who get overrun like sweden or Spain in PvP 1 loose x% of the playerbase???..

2) ofc, players might quit, but they can retire and restart at a new game

3) as I suggested, split the community, open sandbox and PvP - RvR with winning condition

4) there needs to be a DRAW if certain numbers agree on "a stalemate has been reached"...

 

The ideas are good...good start, constructive discussion welcome

and please not GALILEUS, "won´t work, I KNOW IT BETTER !"

 

Oh yes, and for sure

"switching nations not allowed during the contest".

Only after last port has been taken...

 

Personally, I believe there needed to be more "sophisticated" winning conditions implemented,

where there is no need to "kill off" one nation to progress.

 

Because, 7 can take out 1, then 6 another 1 and so on, until 2 remain....

Edited April 5, 2016 by Wilson09

[Sam32120]

I agree with your idea of no switching nations until reset

The goal of these conditions are to establish a way to win as it is the simplest one to put into the game

Other victory conditions could be implemented as they get developed

[Galileus]

Quite honestly if people care that deeply about the color of their nations flag then they need to wake up and realize it's a game

 

With all due respect - what do you base that statement on?

 

A lot of players decide to choose a nation for reasons. It's their team and this is what they choose. For me personally, when it turned out France has rather poor support for English speakers - I decided to hang the game for a time rather than to switch nations. And a lot of people will be the same.

 

Then there is problem of non-english speaking nation. France, Spain, Denmark-Norway... they all are dominated by non-english speaking people. Forcing their incorporation into other nations would mean they loose their regional chat and are forced to interact in english - for many a good reason to never again come back to the game.

 

Then there is the problem you force people to join the people they fought against. This means they will likely first grief and only then quit. And because you forced them to do that - they will never return.

 

And they would be right to do so - because forcing a nation switch on the player would be worst thing you can think of. We're not talking about "green or red" teams here, we're talking about nations - and some people are really hardcore when it comes to their choice of nation. You're supposed to play towards these strengths, not slap 90% of your playerbase across the wrists and tell then to play the way you want to.

[Wilson09]

Good points Galileus...

 

Solution ? If your nation gets killed...game over OR offer to switch to another nation.

 

Game over means you need a new game. Maybe, this type of war gaming can only work if you simply

can restart a new game (maybe wait 1-2 weeks) quickly on a new server.

 

Otherwise, one had to wait too long.

In the meantime, players can spend sailing in the open sandbox or PvE or training ground / duelling.

[SoulPYTHON]

I am opposed to set Winning conditions on an MMO(RP)G, i dont see the point really

 

Let say Nation x gets steamrolled by Nation z, the players in Nation x have a couple options

1. Give Up and Quit the nation and Re-roll (loose most of your stuff)
2. Dont Give up and fight the opposer, ask help from allies etc
3. Concede to Nation z and become a vassal state of Nation z until u grow stronger again and fight Nation z or anyone else

Why would u need to restart the game/server there is always a possibility in this game to conquer/pvp 

• Keep most of your stuff in a free town
• Capitals cannot be conquered, always the ability to buy a conquest flag from there

It is a self sufficient mechanic unless people that want Turn based style conditions and cannot deal with no conditions

 

Why would u want Winning conditions in a game like this ?

 

I can see that eventually with such a small map that a couple nations will have global control, but that is one big word, there are always those that revolt and start something

Edited April 6, 2016 by SoulPYTHON

[Wilson09]

Because I was grown up this way.

 

When I read the first rulebook to play boardgame with Gradma, it stated "you can win this game,

by being first there or you can win by killing Grandma."

 

I like winning / loosing and doing it all over again, learning.

I learn nothing from the grind and killing AI fleets all over again.

 

By the way, even if "loose" a game, does not mean you necessarily loose all stuff...game designer choice.

 

advantages:

- you can focus on meaningful goals to achieve

- you can take a break and restart

- PvP-players here seem highly motivated to beat the enemy

- finally, they will all be "sick" capturing port X again and again and again

- motivated players will suffer a burnout in an open sandbox

 

I see your points, we are talking of different game concepts. I have never been a fan of MMORPG games

like World of Warcraft. No one can dispute, this game has been highly succesful.

 

In the end, Choice.

 

As this game is in Alpha, I am trying to state arguments,

to influence a game not being finished yet.

 

Looking at the POLL

Overhaul of War & Peace mechanics and national relations, pirate role and national alliances (619 votes [54.44%])

it says to me, there is a great demand for some change....top priority.

 

OFC, I don´t have a say, but an opinion is always possible.

Maybe, the Devs read it.

Edited April 6, 2016 by Wilson09

[SoulPYTHON]

Most of the devs/mods read the post people put up on these forums

 

U are correct that u will learn nothing from chasing AI fleets or doing missions but the point there is not to learn from them but to grind for gold and xp which u can use then in getting a or more ships to go kill some other people in a group or solo setting from those winning/loosing battles u can learn or buy trade ships/resource ports/ship building/etc .

Whenever u have the chance of having large OW battles, join in them even with lower level ships winning or loosing it is still lots of fun to be had

 

u can take your point of winning/loosing here in this game to, trying different strategies on personal/clan/nation, surely if u are part of a smaller nation it will be harder to implement certain things but it can be successful or it can fail

 

The advantages u listed are still valid in a no conditions environment:

• you can focus on meaningful goals to achieve

When u newly start playing the game it is all about enjoying the game and trying to learn the beginning

When u getting used to it, trying to make yourself self sufficient

Organizing yourself/clan/nation for resource/ship building

• PvP-players here seem highly motivated to beat the enemy

I guess that counts for every game where there is RvR/PvP

• finally, they will all be "sick" capturing port X again and again and again

If they need to capture and recapture it over and over again then they are doing something wrong, and need to figure it out (learning process)

• motivated players will suffer a burnout in an open sandbox

Yes this is true and some of those players will come back after a while and some wont bother, that is the nature of any game

• You can take a break and restart

 

 

with the current game mechanic that allies on paper cannot join offensive/defensive PBs its a bit hard for the smaller nations on this server to keep their ports when there is a stronger enemy at their door steps, that is why the community voted for a rework of those mechanics + some other things in that package, and dont start about PB mechanics thats entirely different topic

 

But its like u said: choice of playing an MMO(RP)G or wanting a turn based style game, or just sailing on the blue water enjoying a fantastic game

Edited April 6, 2016 by SoulPYTHON

[Migui]

Games without winners slowly bleed players because they run out of things to do and goals to accomplish.

EVE Online with 12 years and thousands of players logging every day strongly disagrees. The only way to win it is to quit.

[Wilson09]

Yes, but this is NOT EVE online.

Think of the universe....

[Migui]

Yes, but this is NOT EVE online.

Think of the universe....

 

Why is people going to invest long term on this game if every X time everything goes back to the start?

[Xander Tyrann]

I've always enjoyed mmo style games where you have a victory and then a map reset. It creates various stages of gameplay which adds variety and for me a bigger sense of achievement.

Why is people going to invest long term on this game if every X time everything goes back to the start?

Sounds like you are asking for the meaning of life lol. Edited April 6, 2016 by Xander Tyrann

[Migui]

Sounds like you are asking for the meaning of life lol.

 

I am asking for a rich environment where politics and things that you do are meaningful and last.

 

Besides, if there is a  scheduled reset every X time why would people bother to join in the middle? That would hurt badly the stream of new players.

[Xander Tyrann]

I am asking for a rich environment where politics and things that you do are meaningful and last. Besides, if there is a scheduled reset every X time why would people bother to join in the middle? That would hurt badly the stream of new players.

I feel they are more meaningful and last longer in a game that resets as a victory is permanent while accumulated wealth is not. Just like in life you will end up in the ground one day

I've joined plenty of mmo style games where it resets mid way and enjoyed it. Not much different from joining mid way through a game with infinite length really.

Edited April 6, 2016 by Xander Tyrann

[eriks]

This is to provide a reason to actually fight a nation

1) all ports are conquer able

2) capitoles and regional capitols have significantly larger defences

3) capturing a capitol gives the occupier an increased xp per battle

4) nations without a capitol get less xp per battle but increased labor hr regen(to promote ship building)

5) when a nation is conquered its population is transferred to the next smallest nation

6) once a nation has captured all capitols the map resets people are returned to thief original faction and a 2 day peace treaty occures

7) the previous winners get -5% to gold earned in battle

 

 

So eventually a faction wins.

 

Then what? Pax Britannica? Pax Piratica? That is a boring game...

Edited April 6, 2016 by eriks

[Hethwill]

A reason to fight a nation ?.

 

Oh ! I know this one, I know this one

 

The Action part of Naval !?

 

[Galileus]

A reason to fight a nation ?.

 

Oh ! I know this one, I know this one

 

The Action part of Naval !?

 

 

There is only one reason to play games and win!

 

THIS:

 

 

Without this, there is no win, no reason, no game, no fun!