Darmand Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 As title. This trying to work both pvp and pve into same rule sets and mission rewards if not working very well IMO. We have missions on PVE server. That is about it. Trading will be reworked so no need to discuss that right now. All other options for PVP players to do things and make cash are not open to us. Trying to balance the needs of PVE and PVP on same rules and mission rewards is a losing battle for the PVE server people. If you want to keep things going this way then you really need to warn PVE players that their game is going to take a back seat to PVP servers and their players. Not very fair selling this as a PVE game when it is not. Just having a server called PVE does not make the rules made for pvp work well in a PVE game. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justme Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 This game is primarily pvp. Why should the devs sacrifice progress in the primary focus of the game. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galileus Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 I agree. You need to buff PvE gains. it's not fair that the PvP guys get the best possible and most efficient way of getting XP and gold - that is missions, and PvE guys get them too! Wait... What? Also, what's with the hostility of PvE players? I see time and time again someone wanting PvE to have boosts and bonuses. If you think PvP has it better, join PvP. No idea why you guys feel the need to be superior and get more stuff. We don't. Hunting Ai fleets is still less risky and more optimal way of farming. PvP is fun. That's that. This is our grand secret and superiority. Join up, we don;t have entrance exams, you know? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikedaBike Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 This game is primarily pvp. Why should the devs sacrifice progress in the primary focus of the game. That may be so, but it would seem that about 80% of the people playing on the PVP server are in fact playing PVE and have no actual PVPing in mind. That being the case the PVE side is a far bigger side than PVP, except a large number of them are trying to pretend they are not scared to lose their ship by using the PVP servers rather than the PVE one....! Game offers both options, it should do them fairly, OP has a fair point in my mind. Having been on the PVE server when unable to log into my PVP 1 server the lack of options other than missions there is a real issue, and what ever side of the fence you prefer to play on PVE players are still customers. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galileus Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 That may be so, but it would seem that about 80% of the people playing on the PVP server are in fact playing PVE and have no actual PVPing in mind. That being the case the PVE side is a far bigger side than PVP, except a large number of them are trying to pretend they are not scared to lose their ship by using the PVP servers rather than the PVE one....! Game offers both options, it should do them fairly, OP has a fair point in my mind. Having been on the PVE server when unable to log into my PVP 1 server the lack of options other than missions there is a real issue, and what ever side of the fence you prefer to play on PVE players are still customers. Lack of content is a fact. More missions will come. But how is this unfair? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darmand Posted February 13, 2016 Author Share Posted February 13, 2016 This game is primarily pvp. Why should the devs sacrifice progress in the primary focus of the game. Because they sell the game to people as PVE? LIke i said...warn people if that is the way it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darmand Posted February 13, 2016 Author Share Posted February 13, 2016 I agree. You need to buff PvE gains. it's not fair that the PvP guys get the best possible and most efficient way of getting XP and gold - that is missions, and PvE guys get them too! Wait... What? Also, what's with the hostility of PvE players? I see time and time again someone wanting PvE to have boosts and bonuses. If you think PvP has it better, join PvP. No idea why you guys feel the need to be superior and get more stuff. We don't. Hunting Ai fleets is still less risky and more optimal way of farming. PvP is fun. That's that. This is our grand secret and superiority. Join up, we don;t have entrance exams, you know? Acting like the rules they apply to make PVP server and players game work better do not have adverse effects on PVE does not make that true. The change to the way people could join missions because pvpers were hiding? Remember that? Not being hostile here...i am simply pointing out that trying to make the pvp rules and balance work for PVE servers and players is a losing battle...for the PVE players. Every change that needs to be done for PVP does not need to be applied to PVE server. This is the issue. A small thing like the above changing missions for PVP was a disaster for a lot of PVE players. Less work in the long run if they do not mess up PVE servers and players by trying to make the same rules apply to all servers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galileus Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 Oh. So you need to get more XP than the other guys to sweeten the deal? Closing missions was a temporary remedy that HAD TO be done on both servers, because it's not worth the time to separate. It's early access game, it changes a lot, sometimes hotfixes are not fun. And believe you me, we got it even worse on PvP, where you can get jumped by enemies if you're taking missions close to borders. And you know what? It's fine. There was no change to gameplay, there was a temporary hotfix. And no-one will be giving you goodies because you feel cheated by the bad-bad PvP players. We got it worse, mate. All this is about some kind of twisted belief that there is a war between PvE and PvP servers. There is none. You're seeing enemies where there are none. There is no "PvP players forcing changes", the game is in a state of flux. If you cannot deal with it and need "more bonuses and goodies" because you feel bad, well... don't buy early access games, mate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justme Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 Because they sell the game to people as PVE? LIke i said...warn people if that is the way it is. There is only 2 things in aware of you can't do. Fight other players( PVE so um yeah) And Port Battles. Everyone on PVP is stuck with the same boring missions, except you don't have to worry about being ganked with no option for help. Such a rough life. Trade is the same. Sailing time is the same Combat mechanics are the same. Travel time, navigation, etc , etc, etc are the same. What's your point again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darmand Posted February 13, 2016 Author Share Posted February 13, 2016 Oh. So you need to get more XP than the other guys to sweeten the deal? Closing missions was a temporary remedy that HAD TO be done on both servers, because it's not worth the time to separate. It's early access game, it changes a lot, sometimes hotfixes are not fun. And believe you me, we got it even worse on PvP, where you can get jumped by enemies if you're taking missions close to borders. And you know what? It's fine. There was no change to gameplay, there was a temporary hotfix. And no-one will be giving you goodies because you feel cheated by the bad-bad PvP players. We got it worse, mate. All this is about some kind of twisted belief that there is a war between PvE and PvP servers. There is none. You're seeing enemies where there are none. There is no "PvP players forcing changes", the game is in a state of flux. If you cannot deal with it and need "more bonuses and goodies" because you feel bad, well... don't buy early access games, mate. What is with the hostility here? And the made up demand for goodies? I never requested anything except rules made for PVE. There is no need to screw up pve servers and players adjusting things that are only happening on PVP servers. This one rule set for them all is not good for both PVP and PVE. Never has been in any game and will not be here. Do the mission rewards still need to be tweaked? Hell yes. That is for everyone. Really is simple. If you sell a game as PVE then let it be a PVE game and not a second class server of people that get treated like they do not matter or are not paying customers as well. Wanting to be treated like a PVE customer... oh ya if that is asking for too much then let a dev come here and say so. If that is to be the way of things, best to let people that want a pve game know up front yes? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darmand Posted February 13, 2016 Author Share Posted February 13, 2016 There is only 2 things in aware of you can't do. Fight other players( PVE so um yeah) And Port Battles. Everyone on PVP is stuck with the same boring missions, except you don't have to worry about being ganked with no option for help. Such a rough life. Trade is the same. Sailing time is the same Combat mechanics are the same. Travel time, navigation, etc , etc, etc are the same. What's your point again? Really you need to read up on what happens on PVE server maybe. Players of my faction can join my OW battles and cause all kinds of grief. That is the definition of PVP (another player causing me issues in a battle) The "fix" to stop PVP people from hiding in missions caused me and many others to be bothered in missions for days by other people...again PVP. And a fix that was applied that was not needed on PVE server by the way. So the "point" of my post was quite clear yes? We need to have separate rules and patches and fixes as needed from the PVP servers. And this is an early access game yes? Where we are talking about what would be good for this game going forward? I kind of think that this applies quite nicely. Making the life and gameplay of PVE players better should be as important as any other customer, right? We paid out cash for the game as well. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoarmurath Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 A perfect example of how the pvp ruleset adversely affect pve server is with the fleets... Yes, we know, in pvp you don't like them. However, it seem utterly ridiculous that you can command a fleet as an ensign, but not as an admiral. On pve server, having fleet at all levels would be nice. There's also the fact that npc have reduced aggro. I understand that on pvp server players were concerned about npc hindering their efforts for starting and fighting port battles. PVE server don't have port battles, and most pve players find it fun to have to dodge npc. (BTW, when i see how many port battles are going on everyday on pvp server, i think that they need npc aggro restored too). Too many features were toned down for pvp purpose, and i hope some will be restored for pve server, along with brand new features (pacific coast not suited for pvp purpose? Don't care, perfect for trading/exploration). And the good news is that i have the feeling that the devs have projects for making the pve server different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balsafer Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 Because they sell the game to people as PVE? LIke i said...warn people if that is the way it is. Wrong they sell the game as pvp. The game originally never was intended to be pve but a few people wanted pve during Alpha so Devs caved and gave you all a pve server. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeBoiteux Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 And the good news is that i have the feeling that the devs have projects for making the pve server different. Yeah, let's dream of a total Player Vs. Environment server where players actually fight against each element of their environment : weather conditions causing ship dommages, uncharted territories to explore, fog and rain hiding the presence of very aggressive Pirate bots, sandbanks and shallows causing shipwrecks, breakable or imprecise navigational tools making you lost, unruly crew to manage... Now let's wake up. Admin told both PvE and PvP would have identical features (at least for the moment). PvE will certainly be better when some features (such as Bots aggressiveness and mission RoE) are tuned but it's not a priority. Game is still under EA. Btw, PvE XP / gold rewards need not be changed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoarmurath Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 Yeah, let's dream of a total Player Vs. Environment server where players actually fight against each element of their environment : weather conditions causing ship dommages, uncharted territories to explore, fog and rain hiding the presence of very aggressive Pirate bots, sandbanks and shallows causing shipwrecks, breakable or imprecise navigational tools making you lost, unruly crew to manage... Now let's wake up. Admin told both PvE and PvP would have identical features (at least for the moment). PvE will certainly be better when some features (such as Bots aggressiveness and mission RoE) are tuned but it's not a priority. Game is still under EA. Btw, PvE XP / gold rewards need not be changed. Well, the devs are very lucky that you are here to remind them of their priorities... You're right, no need of using the suggestion forum if it is not going to be done tomorrow... Or even better, yesterday... Maybe we should rename the forum "Priorities suggestions" to make it more clear? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeBoiteux Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 Well, the devs are very lucky that you are here to remind them of their priorities... You're right, no need of using the suggestion forum if it is not going to be done tomorrow... Or even better, yesterday... Maybe we should rename the forum "Priorities suggestions" to make it more clear? You seem to have absolutely misunderstood what I meant (or pretended so). And I dislike your aggressive and sarcastic tone. So I won't directly reply you and won't add more fuel to the fire. I'll just point out that : - it was not the devs I reminded of development priorities (but that was clear enough). Btw, here is the link : http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/7978-development-plans-prioritization-proposals-and-feedback/page-1 - the following quote was genuine suggestion for a distant future : (...) a total Player Vs. Environment server where players actually fight against each element of their environment : weather conditions causing ship dommages, uncharted territories to explore, fog and rain hiding the presence of very aggressive Pirate bots, sandbanks and shallows causing shipwrecks, breakable or imprecise navigational tools making you lost, unruly crew to manage... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuisalsega Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 Totally agreeing on that matters. And it's nice to see people who play on the pve server start to talk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aetrion Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 The problem is honestly that an open world game that is purely PvE can't really work, since the whole point of open world PvP is to have the opposing players create the content and challenge of the game for you. At the same time, the PvE server is very obviously an outgrowth of people wanting to experience more of a swashbuckling adventure in the age of sail rather than be stuck in a perpetual cutthroat conflict where they need to be part of a clan or just get ganked all day. What we really need isn't a server that doesn't allow PvP at all, what we need is a server that has rules of engagement that make PvP palatable to more people. For example, surrendering should be a way to protect yourself from the worst consequences of a losing battle, not simply a way of skipping the fight straight to being destroyed. To me it would make a lot more sense to run a server where you are forced to accept a surrender, get to take someones cargo but then they get to go in peace, than a server where you are artificially restricted from attacking people at all for example. Enforced honor instead of enforced pacifism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuisalsega Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 Well what if we dont want a server like that, you can't speak for other people and what they want. And yes ofcourse pve works in an open world game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aetrion Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 (edited) Well what if we dont want a server like that, you can't speak for other people and what they want. I think you just spoke for other people yourself. And please, explain how a PvE game is supposed to generate content that doesn't eventually get boring? How can a PvE game ever create a real threat that needs to be confronted without having a situation where there is a possibility that no player at all walks away the winner? Edited February 13, 2016 by Aetrion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoarmurath Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 The problem is honestly that an open world game that is purely PvE can't really work, since the whole point of open world PvP is to have the opposing players create the content and challenge of the game for you. At the same time, the PvE server is very obviously an outgrowth of people wanting to experience more of a swashbuckling adventure in the age of sail rather than be stuck in a perpetual cutthroat conflict where they need to be part of a clan or just get ganked all day. What we really need isn't a server that doesn't allow PvP at all, what we need is a server that has rules of engagement that make PvP palatable to more people. For example, surrendering should be a way to protect yourself from the worst consequences of a losing battle, not simply a way of skipping the fight straight to being destroyed. To me it would make a lot more sense to run a server where you are forced to accept a surrender, get to take someones cargo but then they get to go in peace, than a server where you are artificially restricted from attacking people at all for example. Enforced honor instead of enforced pacifism. It's because pvp players were against any kind of regulation that we ended with different servers. The initial plan was to have a pve/pvp flag. Since this idea encountered all kind of resistance from some alpha testers, it was finally abandoned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galileus Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 Well what if we dont want a server like that, you can't speak for other people and what they want. You also cannot expect PvE to become a full time development branch. PvE was separated from PvP because people wanted to have it, not because the game aims to provide a full PvE experience. Aetrion provided a very interesting "out", that - honestly - sounds much more plausible than Game Labs going out of their way to make PvE a separate game. If you don't want that server and you don't want the server you got... well, it might just end up with you getting no servers. Compromise is a wonderful thing, you know...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valetudin Arian Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 I personally do not mind anything to do with mission rewards, both before and after the changes because to me it is not a priority. Enjoying the experience is the crux of it. My main beef is with some of the pvp player base being the douches they are and playing the game like it is them against everyone, win at all costs, and personal satisfaction can only be gained by the suffering of anyone in your way. This has lead to the abuse of game mechanics that preceded the content being withdrawn. Of course pvp is fun, who does not enjoy lan parties with friends/family? The only time pvp is not fun is when the weirdos who would never be invited nor welcome at a lan party infest servers, and start talking like they are what make the game great. Now some people are either thick skinned or dull witted enough to not care or notice but those of us who prefer having fun in an environment that does not foster as many douches will play on the pve server. IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BallsOfSteel Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 PVP is real PVE is convoluted I am still on PVE but going over soon, the randomness and real fights will make me a better player Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kuisalsega Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 I think you just spoke for other people yourself. And please, explain how a PvE game is supposed to generate content that doesn't eventually get boring? How can a PvE game ever create a real threat that needs to be confronted without having a situation where there is a possibility that no player at all walks away the winner? Why does there need to be a real threat. And yes i think it is possible to create that even on pve. And with the adding of more mechanics new missions there will be more content. And for the most part what i see is that pvp players are the one who are against all of this while it wouldn't have a big affect on them. I mean why do you care about the pve server if you dont play on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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