Ruthless4u Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 Oh please... -.- Well it does, even says it on the title page. http://www.navalaction.com/#ageofsail Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jodgi Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 The game is flooded with ships of every description Except those you actually want. The idea of this Topic is really horrible. First of all, the creator of the topic has clearly no idea of how an MMO economy works.Thank you for your contribution. It is not eve or world of warcraft with a skill or perk system. So happy it isnt in here. Most time's those kind of system only benefits for the players that played this game for a long time. The crafting system will also benefit long term players not casuals because the best stuff if kept for friends and "winning the war". Also tell the people in this thread that have mentioned they play this game to craft it isn't gameplay, as there have been many in here that have said they play this game to craft.I craft, level 34 now. It's not gameplay. Crafting is the most vital part for such a game.Satan, is that you? Well he knows it all better. They should lock this topic. People are getting confused when this topic is so hot. One guy one opinion no one agree's do this in private chat. Thank you for your contribution. I'm fear Na isn't for you mate....Thank you for your contribution. ಠ_ಠ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llewellyn Jones RN Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 I think the OP judgement is clouded we all know this game is a work in progress especially the economy as right the only thing driving the economy is ship building. There is no economy atm we the players can't craft properly because we can't produce resources in ports there is no port control that might require trade with other ports for resources that you might need to expand your port make it a better place. There are several things that we need to consider. ship building port construction Port defences Damage over time building degradation Ship degradation over time Economic buildings All these things will result in the economy ingame finally working because atm we only have Ship building in game which is being driven by ship losses and the need to build bigger ships to fight in. With regards to the OP he really does not have a very good grip on reality in the game players don't quit because they are losing ships they quit because of being continuously killed because they don't learn how to be a better player and just keep on doing the same thing every battle ergo rage quit I died again and I need to buy a new ship oh I havent got any gold because I have to keep buying new ships. I hate losing my ships but I know enough to be able to hold my own without suffering to much and to even win a fight or two, if you want to just play WOW that's what your asking for go ahead this game is not broke just not finished yet. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aubrey Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 Well it does, even says it on the title page. http://www.navalaction.com/#ageofsail Oh Lord... *bitestable* Dude the point is that you simply claim it is not because you claim that 2/3 of it is based on economy. First of all, this is - again - nothing but a lie, since it is 100% up to you what the game will be fore you. Trader, Fighter, Crafter - 100% up to you and depending on your choices, you can flat out ignore the games economical aspects, so cut out the BS! Second, you totally ignore the fact that "exciting" is a completely relative and subjective term. What is exciting to me might not be exciting for you. No rocket-science whatsoever! Some people here should really cut the BS and start to deliver real arguments, otherwise this thread is yelling for moderators, since this is not how discussions work. You have a suggestion? Bring it across and when 99% of the participants tell you it's moot, move on, accept it. This constant back and forth with nothing but claims and even lies is getting ridiculous and sad. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aetrion Posted February 12, 2016 Author Share Posted February 12, 2016 The amount of threads and replies as well as users in a game forum does not represent more than a very small part of the entire playerbase. Even more so for this game (and others) that are on Steam where those who engage in the forum discussions are split between the main forum (here) and the Steam discussions which, personally, I find to be of worse / lower quality than the discussions on the main forums... but that's just my opinion. Yea, I mean you have to consider that right now this game has two highly populated PvE servers that are full of people who are probably looking at this entire discussion going "Ship loss? What's that?" If I felt like an open world game can survive on PvE alone, which I personally don't, I probably would just go to a PvE server and not worry about ship loss much as well. Personally I just feel like I'd miss out on way too much of the real action if I'm on a server where everything is completely static and safe. For me personally some in-between of the two types of servers where there is conquest and PvP but also a reasonable expectation of just building up your ships and not worrying horribly about losses would be ideal. Imo the skill system in eve is the worst part of that game. You have to spend months skilling into a specialization before you can ever fly it effectively. Meaning that you never actually get to learn how to play the role you are specializing foruntil you have the skills. Not to mention how long it takes for a newbie character to learn the "core" skills needed to even fly a basic none specialized role effectively. The thing that makes eve great is the player driven nature of the game. Just look at the battle of B-R58B, or the battle of 6VDT (i was at that one), these are the reasons that a player driven economy/RvR are a good thing. I would agree that the skill system in Eve would benefit from a "learning by doing" approach more than it's current approach where you have to train the skill before you can actually learn the ship. But that doesn't mean there isn't something compelling about the idea that a drone expert is an entirely different character from a ECM specialist, or a mining barge captain. If you could simply use all those ships perfectly right out of the box there would be no element of dedication to those facets of the game anymore. And yes, the big battles in Eve are very impressive and cool, but let's face it, only a hand full of players in the game actually participated in them and stuff like that doesn't happen every day either, there are months or even years between them, which means as cool as they are, they are not serving a large portion of the playerbase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beagleplease Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 And yes, the big battles in Eve are very impressive and cool, but let's face it, only a hand full of players in the game actually participated in them and stuff like that doesn't happen every day either, there are months or even years between them, which means as cool as they are, they are not serving a large portion of the playerbase. Well 6VDT had over 4000 players in the system and 1000s more around the outlying systems it probably involved about 15-25% of the total online players across the many many hours that the battle raged on for. Battles like that attract players to the RvR. I was online when B-R started, i couldn't get involved really cause i'm not a capital ship guy. I was really tempted to skill for a dreadnaught after this battle though, i stayed up for ages for news of how the battle was going, ended up going to bed assured that my side was winning decisively. Jumped up in the morning to find out what happened to be greeted by news that we'd crushed them utterly, it was pretty epic. The funny thing is though, actually being in these battles is boring as fuck in eve, in 6VDT i dropped my sentry drones assigned them to our drone bunny and went afk for 2 hours. Then when i came back i dropped more sentry drones and assigned them to the new drone bunny and went to sleep, woke up 5 hours later, still alive drones still firing, at this point the battle was wrapping up however and as expected our side lost heavily and i eventually got popped by a dreadnaught. Somehow despite this though its still great to be a part of these big battles, and what naval action does so much better than eve is the combat so the battles can be more epic just by also being fun to fight in. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoarmurath Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 Yea, I mean you have to consider that right now this game has two highly populated PvE servers that are full of people who are probably looking at this entire discussion going "Ship loss? What's that?" If I felt like an open world game can survive on PvE alone, which I personally don't, I probably would just go to a PvE server and not worry about ship loss much as well. Personally I just feel like I'd miss out on way too much of the real action if I'm on a server where everything is completely static and safe. For me personally some There's only one PVE server, and people know perfectly well what a ship loss is. That's why they can avoid it... Most of the time... Because sometime, no matter how good you are, no matter how much stronger you are than opposition, you can still sink pretty fast... Capsizing, magazine explosions, collisions happen even on PVE server, you know. And some npc are very aggressive. You don't always chose what the opposition will be. It's kind of pathetic to see how little you know about the game, but still want so bad to change it to your liking. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aetrion Posted February 12, 2016 Author Share Posted February 12, 2016 (edited) The funny thing is though, actually being in these battles is boring as fuck in eve, in 6VDT i dropped my sentry drones assigned them to our drone bunny and went afk for 2 hours. Then when i came back i dropped more sentry drones and assigned them to the new drone bunny and went to sleep, woke up 5 hours later, still alive drones still firing, at this point the battle was wrapping up however and as expected our side lost heavily and i eventually got popped by a dreadnaught. Somehow despite this though its still great to be a part of these big battles, and what naval action does so much better than eve is the combat so the battles can be more epic just by also being fun to fight in. I played Eve for two years as well, about 6 months of which I was serving in an alliance as a carrier pilot. And yea, the stories that come out of Eve sound interesting, but actually doing all that stuff is incredibly boring. 90% of the use of the carrier was for jump hauling super expensive cargo around the galaxy in order to place them into dead end lowsec systems were pirates wouldn't be trying to waylay alliance shipments. The other 10% was sitting at a POS and assigning fighter groups. (This was back when fighters were warp capable and the fighters were the reason to use carriers) So much of what I did in Eve was absolutely no fun at all ultimately. Fueling stations, grinding beltrats, hauling ore, spending hours chasing some random ganker who was messing around in our systems... That kind of stuff just seems like such a huge waste of time now, which I guess is one of the reasons why I'm just not excited for that type of gameplay anymore. There's only one PVE server, and people know perfectly well what a ship loss is. That's why they can avoid it... Most of the time... Because sometime, no matter how good you are, no matter how much stronger you are than opposition, you can still sink pretty fast... Capsizing, magazine explosions, collisions happen even on PVE server, you know. And some npc are very aggressive. You don't always chose what the opposition will be. Ugh, you really think my point was that nobody on a PvE server ever loses a ship? Edited February 12, 2016 by Aetrion 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jodgi Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 (edited) What is exciting to me might not be exciting for you.True and when things are balanced both sides are provided for and allowed to have their own fun. Thats why I'm here and say things that obviously annoys some people, to help find the right balance. Some people here should really cut the BS and start to deliver real arguments, otherwise this thread is yelling for moderators, since this is not how discussions work. You have a suggestion? Bring it across and when 99% of the participants tell you it's moot, move on, accept it. This constant back and forth with nothing but claims and even lies is getting ridiculous and sad. I have my faults too. When I get riled up I usually make jokes that are too colorful for some. You want some to "cut the BS" and use "real arguments" or else you want moderators to silence those you disagree with. Is that how discussions work where you come from? If a minority speaks up about how they view things (and in our case, we're simply branded a minority by those who disagree with us) you want them to submit to the majority view? Is that how discussions work where you come from? I've seen more thorough explanations and follow-up elaborations from OP than from you. Honestly, your contribution is mostly yelling and bullying. Is that how discussions work where you come from? ... edit: It's kind of pathetic to see how little you know about the game, but still want so bad to change it to your liking. What about me, then? Would you say that to me? OP obviously knows a lot more about eco stuff than I do, as I've been able to avoid eco games up until Naval Action trapped me in. Actually , why even say things like that at all? "Pathetic"... "how little you know"... Is this a thing for you guys?! Edited February 12, 2016 by jodgi 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dedlox Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 What about me, then? Would you say that to me? OP obviously knows a lot more about eco stuff than I do, as I've been able to avoid eco games up until Naval Action trapped me in. Actually , why even say things like that at all? "Pathetic"... "how little you know"... Is this a thing for you guys?! Oh, you want some attention also? lol I don't think anyone cares to convince the OP, there have been multiple reasons and arguments made on why loss is needed yet nothing takes and no serious rebuttals are made. Plain and simple truth is, you guys are playing the wrong game because it isn't going to fundamentally change. The uproar that happened when durability was added was twice the nonsense put out in this thread, I can't imagine if they remove it. And I think others are right, time to let this post die.....GL, I'm out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beagleplease Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 That kind of stuff just seems like such a huge waste of time now, which I guess is one of the reasons why I'm just not excited for that type of gameplay anymore. Oh for sure we don't want that kind of shit in naval action. As much as i hold up eve as an example of success it is far from perfect. Naval action has the opportunity to fix the things that are broken in eve and make great sandbox for its players without the tedium and boredom that eve tends to generate 80% of the time. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aubrey Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 More claims and assumptions, even twisting my words to create a nice straw-man. Nice, nice! OP has not delivered a single argument that was able to withstand the counter-arguments, not a single one. All he wrote, all his points, were based upon claims about the game. Claims he failed - or ignored to - prove when asked to do so. Claims, multiple people took the time to debunk, yet he chosen to ignore them, like a challenged child that refuses to face reality. And that is what I meant with "this is not how discussions work". You can't just create your own cute reality and throw out wild claims and assumptions to twist things how you need them so your silly suggestions have something like a foundation. Well of course you can, but as we can see, most people don't fall for that kind of BS. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aetrion Posted February 12, 2016 Author Share Posted February 12, 2016 Oh for sure we don't want that kind of shit in naval action. As much as i hold up eve as an example of success it is far from perfect. Naval action has the opportunity to fix the things that are broken in eve and make great sandbox for its players without the tedium and boredom that eve tends to generate 80% of the time. I agree there, but one of the biggest culprits in making Eve boring is that for the most part people will avoid fights that aren't hugely stacked in their favor. In 2 years of playing Eve, one of which was in 0.0 I only ever lost one single ship, and that wasn't even to players, but because I had been grinding belt rats for hours and zoned out so much that I just simply forgot to turn my energized plating on. I'm perfectly confident that I could replicate that kind of record in Naval Action as well, by being extremely careful and only ever engaging the enemy when I'm part of an overwhelming force. However, that kind of success at retaining ships comes at the price of avoiding fair fights and taking no risks. Eve is a game where you can kill hundreds without ever losing a single ship if you're sufficiently cowardly about it. Problem is that that's neither really fun for the people you're killing nor for yourself. To me there needs to be some level of risk the game allows for without cost. Some kind of margin between recklessness and cowardice that you can play in for fun. Given that I personally really care for highly customizable personal ships I don't think that margin should be contained in how many ships you can easily replace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghroznak Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 Oh, you want some attention also? lol I am not in agreement with everything Aetrion has suggested, and have put forward my own arguments with regards to that debate. And that is what it has been, a discussion, where we disagree on points, ergo a debate. A sensible debate, and a civil one, with solid proposals, arguments and reasoning added to it. Perhaps there are more people, on the forum anyways (which in no way represents even a remote amount of the complete playerbase), that are in disagreement with what Aetrion has suggested. That does not make them right any more than he is right. It's a discussion. We bring up points, opinions, and ultimately it's up to the developers to decide which direction to take their game, not us, regardless if we think we are right or wrong. However, in the past few pages of this thread and the content of the one and two liner replies where certain individuals seem to find it appropriate to jump onto some kind of "lets make fun of the OP" bandwagon where they add absolutely ZERO valuable input to the thread and discussion in it self, reminds me more of the attitude found in kindergarden and elementary school where children who doesn't know any better think it's socially acceptable to point at the person stating an opinion different from the rest and make fun of them. Any human intellectually capable of tying their own shoelaces should know better, act and behave accordingly. I'm disappointed to say the least. Many of these gremlin replies is what you might expect to see in the Steam discussion forums. Until now I wrongly assumed that this forum was largely above such childish behaviour. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dedlox Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 I am not in agreement with everything Aetrion has suggested, and have put forward my own arguments with regards to that debate. And that is what it has been, a discussion, where we disagree on points, ergo a debate. A sensible debate, and a civil one, with solid proposals, arguments and reasoning added to it. Perhaps there are more people, on the forum anyways (which in no way represents even a remote amount of the complete playerbase), that are in disagreement with what Aetrion has suggested. That does not make them right any more than he is right. It's a discussion. We bring up points, opinions, and ultimately it's up to the developers to decide which direction to take their game, not us, regardless if we think we are right or wrong. However, in the past few pages of this thread and the content of the one and two liner replies where certain individuals seem to find it appropriate to jump onto some kind of "lets make fun of the OP" bandwagon where they add absolutely ZERO valuable input to the thread and discussion in it self, reminds me more of the attitude found in kindergarden and elementary school where children who doesn't know any better think it's socially acceptable to point at the person stating an opinion different from the rest and make fun of them. Any human intellectually capable of tying their own shoelaces should know better, act and behave accordingly. I'm disappointed to say the least. Many of these gremlin replies is what you might expect to see in the Steam discussion forums. Until now I wrongly assumed that this forum was largely above such childish behaviour. Then you haven't followed this thread very closely, the one liners you see...go back and look at the thorough posts made by those folks to the OP discussing it, then see that the OP did not respond too a single post that was thoughtfully written. You can not claim it's a nonsensical debate if you don't respond to anyone who disagrees with you while continuing to spout nonsense. That's the problem with forum debates, one can just choose not to debate and keep repeating their point of view, over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over.......hope you understand now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aubrey Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 Then you haven't followed this thread very closely, the one liners you see...go back and look at the thorough posts made by those folks to the OP discussing it, then see that the OP did not respond too a single post that was thoughtfully written. You can not claim it's a nonsensical debate if you don't respond to anyone who disagrees with you while continuing to spout nonsense. That's the problem with forum debates, one can just choose not to debate and keep repeating their point of view, over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over.......hope you understand now. This. I can only speak for myself. I tried, I was constructive. However, I ceased all this when it was clear that it was futile from the very start. What followed, was frustration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jodgi Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 Oh, you want some attention also? lol...Don't laugh at me, it's a base need I have next after breating air, food and sleep. ...you guys are playing the wrong game...Thank you for your contribution. The uproar that happened when durability was added was twice the nonsense put out in this thread,Yes, and they listened to the massive uproar from the legion of posters wanting 1 dura ships. They made it so some ships were only available with one dura. Remember what happened?... Statistically speaking nobody wanted to sail the 1 dura ships. Strange, isn't it? Look at my sig for "proof", you put so much emphasis on proof and truth. Oh for sure we don't want that kind of shit in naval action. As much as i hold up eve as an example of success it is far from perfect. Naval action has the opportunity to fix the things that are broken in eve and make great sandbox for its players without the tedium and boredom that eve tends to generate 80% of the time. Beagle, please! I like you, no, I think I love you. But know what you're getting into. Nine out of ten times something tedious is suggested or defended, posters use EVE as proof it needs to happen. They say "EVE" like it's the name of The Lord. So when you come waltzing in here saying things can be done to avoid tedium and boredom and the result might be better than EVE, you might get quite a bit of attention from the angry young men. yet he chosen to ignore them, like a challenged child that refuses to face reality. Is this how discussions work? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dedlox Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 (edited) Yes, and they listened to the massive uproar from the legion of posters wanting 1 dura ships. They made it so some ships were only available with one dura. Remember what happened?... Statistically speaking nobody wanted to sail the 1 dura ships. Strange, isn't it? Look at my sig for "proof", you put so much emphasis on proof and truth. Less risk does not equal no risk and I think at least an agreeable compromise has been reached. Sail all day long on 5 lives but if you want to be the biggest and baddest on the block, it will take some work and effort, which may actually be easier in a clan, crazy thought. I think that's the point of this whole thing, it's been decided, you can preach all day that it's alpha, beta, pre-release, or whatever, they aren't going to revamp the entire game for no loss ships. And, just to add, I can go through and quote all of your quotes of one liners and following sarcastic remarks that added nothing to the conversation but I think you're smart enough to realize what you did so I don't have to show you. Edited February 12, 2016 by Dedlox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aubrey Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 Is this how discussions work? No, they don't. That's the point. I delivered facts, he countered with "well you had no good arguments" - but he didn't say why - so it was just a cheap (and rude) way to evade the debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jodgi Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 No, they don't. That's the point. I delivered facts, he countered with "well you had no good arguments" - but he didn't say why - so it was just a cheap (and rude) way to evade the debate. But you'd never be rude, like him, would you? His offense was: "but he didn't say why" You know what you said. Let it sink in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aubrey Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 But you'd never be rude, like him, would you? His offense was: "but he didn't say why" You know what you said. Let it sink in. I never claimed I wasn't rude, but that is just again a nice straw-man - you sure are the master of straw-men, congratulations! Rude or not, I simply have no time or understanding for bullshit. It is a waste of everyone's time. He made his post, some people debunked it - that should have been it. But no, let's make it worse, make up more crazy fantasy 'facts' to desperately try to force some crazy idea upon others and if they don't agree, just call them "narrow minded". le sigh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghroznak Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 le sigh. Sounds like a great name for my next Pickle 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrdoomed Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 Last night i bought a merc , my first one and tbe server crashed 2 times in battle and i lost 2 durability. ...not happy BUT still love ship loss . Its part of the fun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justme Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 Last night i bought a merc , my first one and tbe server crashed 2 times in battle and i lost 2 durability. ...not happy BUT still love ship loss . Its part of the fun Not fun if you lose it due to things beyond your control. Speaking in general terms, as I do realize it's still in testing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mansen Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 Sorry - I just don't agree with you OP. I am a fervent supporter of the near-EVE style economy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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