Christian

i just want them because they look good i like thicc bulges and i cannot lie

reminds me of this 500 ton flying boat

Muh tumblehome ships (rolls 180 degrees) Muh structurally sound japanese destroyers which dont loose their bows in bad weather Muh oxygen torpedoes which are completely safe Muh 460mm anti aircraft shells which are totally practical and will save our battleships Muh aircraft catapult on a destroyer Muh totally reliable british 16 inch hoist system Muh totally reliable french guns Muh never built a battleship since 1911

it would be nice to see historical ships floating around and fight them though it would be predictable i think each nation should focus on what they did in real life so the british go with either a KGV layout with quads or a full forwards armament like nelson or g3 and early on would have twin turret only until the 20-30s while germans dont use triple turrets (german hoist layout problem which they never solved) and the french use all forwards armament with quad turrets japanese would be more standard though preffering twin turrets and america would be a mix of quite a few layouts maybe 3 options like random, inspired and historical ? dunno just an idea

on one hand it makes sense because pre dreadnoughts were very inaccurate on the other hand torpedoes perform too well in hitrate but suck in damage it might have something to do with torpedo range id personally wait a bit until the next update to see how things change before making any large suggestions

generally speaking if you were fighting an enemy with torpedoes on them during ww2 and they had sufficient torpedo range it was expected those torpedoes would be launched example battle of sunda straight and the java sea (same source as below) they managed to torpedo the cruier java and de ruyter along with the destroyer Kortenaer each suffering 1 hit and sinking the japanese attacked with torpedoes against at sunda straight with 4 torpedoes striking perth and 4 striking houston both went down very fast source: http://www.navweaps.com/index_tech/tech-067.php

early torpedoes do seem to have quite a bit of range compared to the whitehead torpedoes in use in 1905 which did not have any significant range (700 meters) and their speed was pathetic at 26 knots also again the laser aim of the torpedo targeting teams http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WTUS_PreWWII.php only torpedo with above 900 meter range in 1904/1905 came in 1904 as the bliss leavitt torpedo

numbers of hits is number of hits before they were guaranteed dead i believe for example musashi continued to float for 4 hours before she sank after taking 20 torpedoes yamato took more than 13 torpedoes but by 13 torpedoes she was listing so bad the remaining torpedoes hit the bottom of her hull due to the list example those 6 torpedo hits on her belly were likely not counted (basically an intire torpedo plane squadron made it through because her aa defences stopped firing due to abandon ship order and so giant boom) generally the yamato torpedo hits are disputed but its said that (without counting the late flight coming in with a sledgehammer to nuke it) 13-16 torpedo hits were achieved best view of her wreck i could find torpedo hits can quite easily be seen (also notice the one right on the stern of the ship (also as can be seen with yamato except for the 3 pilots who did not get the memo and the late flight with 6 torpedoes) she was only hit on one side

couple of sources i use links because they are easy to use and have alot of information and most importantly THEY COME FOR FREE http://www.navweaps.com/ the big ol classic one has alot of information on almost everything regarding naval weapons and ships VERY RECOMENDED http://www.navweaps.com/index_nathan/index_nathan.php (sub category of the above) anything to do with armor and projectiles go here Facehard program also available from here https://francearchives.fr/fr/file/e8f62911efdd42614307a2af44a0757041a28f18/FRSHD_PUB_00000181.pdf french guns through history not alot of information on them but it states which guns existed http://seawarpeace.ru/index.html HUGE amount of information on basically all german ships but its in russian google translate does work https://iiif.dl.itc.u-tokyo.ac.jp/repo/s/hiraga/page/home Hiraga digital archives alot of japanese dreadnoughts and ship blueprints BUT its in japanese https://www.history.navy.mil/ shit ton of stuff like damage reports and so on also nice https://www.e-reading.club/book.php?book=1007030 (yet to read myself) book on british battleships through history http://www.dreadnoughtproject.org/tfs/index.php/Main_Page has alot of info but its a PAIN to dig too and its an absolute pain to navigate http://www.navtechlife.com/ bit about naval tech good site not a large amount of info but nice nontheless http://www.navypedia.org/ships_index.htm SHITTON OF SHIPS YO all with their specs refits and so on VERY RECOMENDED almost all nations navies and ships are there i believe the time period is from around 1850-present http://www.gwpda.org/naval/n0000000.htm again a bit of everything nice information and also some nice rare diagrams of turrets http://www.combinedfleet.com/kaigun.htm alot about japanese ships technology and so on mostly ww2 http://www.navy.gov.au/media-room/publications/wwii-damage-control damage control examples with british ships during ww2 and lessons learned from said damage interesting to read them pictures are a bitch to load (atleast for me) https://archive.org/details/TM9-1985-3/page/n11 nice archive of reports especially about explosives theres japanese german french and italian ordinance reports and also some british i believe also a bunch about explosives (havent looked alot at this one yet still reading most of it) https://pwencycl.kgbudge.com/Table_Of_Contents.htm nice for most things pacific war has some nice info http://www.uboatarchive.net/Design/DesignStudiesTypeXXI.htm TYPE XXI design study and report its very in depth http://www.fischer-tropsch.org/primary_documents/gvt_reports/USNAVY/USNTMJ Reports/USNTMJ_toc.htm US tech mission to japan alot of stuff about naval things pictures are sadly extremely dark it has ALOT of information though although some topics if feel are lacking (specifically japanese torpedoes) but its very good for basically everything else regarding japanese tech

yeah then i dont see why you were getting non pens

@Pedroig ive been considering buying the book on tsushima is it any good ?

regarding heavy/superheavy shells are superheavies worth it considering the extra punch they deliver?

yeah the hitrate for torpedoes seems very high right now while the torpedoes seem under-powered in terms of Bismarcks torpedo protection i meant in the immediate protection from the explosion her damage control against flooding is nothing amazing enemy ships also dont seem to make evasive maneuvers if they feel a destroyer has a torpedo solution or is doing a torpedo run which i find odd also it sometimes seems like destroyers have aimbot torpedoes (ps sorry for my bad grammar)

yeah that dosent really make sense its odd only 2 ladder shots are required when you would want 3 or 4 shots (depending on your gun layout) and for some reason the remaining guns are silent until the first one has reloaded (shouldnt they fire in pairs so if you have 6 single guns as pictured here they would fire 2 ranging salvoes in quick succesion of 3 shots each ? one salvo would be purposely aimed under another purposefully over while it would try and split the shots per group to be 3 or 4) realistically you cant really get a proper group out of 2 shots (also shouldnt it take a few salvoes for the firing ship to get a proper and solid lock or is locked in this case determined by the ship properly seeing the target and aiming ?)

good god that slideshow of the hulls is amazing also i noticed that one of the hulls with a 5x3 layout (i think) has a lower freeboard than the others is there gonna be a free-board slider ? also would it be a possibility we could get a sneak peek at quad turrets if we ask nicely ?

but it does back up the sources which state the rate of fire is 2-3 rounds per minute for the 12 and 11 inch gun which perfectly overlays with the footage this seems to indicate rate of fire was 2-3 rounds per minute for this gun every source ive read up on regarding the german 12 and 11 inch guns used at jutland states 2-3 rounds per minute both guns also have almost the exact same hoist layout although the 305mm has a hydraulically powered ram and the hoists are slightly larger generally speaking yeah you would want the hoists to be working at full capacity to determine rate of fire which is easier with ww2 vessels because they usually did not have ready rack ammuniton in the turret due to the flash fire problems which might be present timing the elevation sequence from 0 to 13.5 gives me slightly over 3 seconds all sources on this gun state 4 degree per second elevation from navyweps it is also to be mentioned that during the dogger bank incident she fired off almost all of her AP ammunition (87 rounds per barrel) it is quite likely as ammo was running low they began to preserve ammo and conducted more aimed salvoes and thus lowered the rate of fire to get higher hitrates

lyddite causes -50% AP penetration so yes powder is important if you were using lyddite no surprise you did not pen lyddite 2 "only" decreases pen by 25%

the reload part is all in one cut the rest is not but the rest does not matter all that matters here is 10:30 to 10:56 also footage being cut or not does not matter as long as it shows whats important in one clip if i wanted an example of recoil one complete cut of the gun firing would be enough same goes for reload just saying that is a cut together film SAYS NOTHING about its trustworthyness of course its cut together is hello kittying 17 minutes long and back then non clipped together films of that lenght were IMPOSSIBLE it has 27 seconds of pure reloading footage and NOTHING ELSE with 0 cuts from 10:30 to 10:56 THERE ARE NO CUTS and its not post war footage since all of these guns were lost in 1918 there is not a single cut from when the barrel starts to de elevate until it has reached full elevation again also i was wrong This is Kaiser these are 305mm guns but as can be seen only 1 spotting hole is present and it does not have the extended cloth over the barrels this seems to line up with the secondary placement this makes it likely the firing footage is from 305mm guns there is a possibility they cut from the turret footage to a 280mm gun reloading but if we assume they cut to the 305mm gun it would make sense (since thats the gun they show firing) the 305mm and 280mm gun both had a rate of fire from 2-3 rounds per minute if the guns fired at 0 degrees elevation the reload time would be 16 seconds thus almost a rate of fire of 4 rounds per minute what limits the gun is its slow elevation and de elevation rate which is only 4 degrees per second which means it took 3 seconds to elevate the gun to max and the same to de elevate it combined with the fact it takes slightly longer time for the crew to reload it as they need to wait until its at a standstill PS finding interior pictures diagrams and so on of the german 12 inch gun is not easy it seems the gun was kept somewhat secret this makes it more likely the picture is cut to a 280mm gun thats supported by this picture of the goebens 28cm breech this breech and interior layout LOOKS ALMOST IDENTICAL to the footage at 10:30 (keep in mind picture is flipped as the gun in the clip is from the right side of the twin turret while goebens breech picture is from the left gun in the twin turret) either way the steel bars and the small buttons/electronics look almost identical and so does the breech the only 2 nations to use this sliding breech were austro hungarians and the germans and the austro hungarian 305mm gun looks vastly diffrent as can be seen here

footage here seems to confirm that such a reload rate was not abnormal and a reload time of 25 seconds is achieved this is the german 280mm or 305mm gun as can be seen there is a midships mounted centerline with an aft superimposed turret over an aft turret this indicates its mostly likely its Moltke or Seydlitz class battlecruiser or its the konig class dreadnoughts with 305mm guns i believe its 280mm guns this is a 280mm turret as can be seen the guncovers (the cloth material) does not extend very far out on the barrel (same again as video one) in addition to this it only has 1 sighting hole in the side of the turret which is placed high up same as the video one this is the twin 305mm gun which has 2 sighting holes reload is timed from 10:30 gun starts elevating at 10:30 the gun reaches 0 degrees elevation at 10:33 brass casing is removed from 10:33 to 10:35 projectile tray is moved in at 10:38 projectile is rammed at 10:39 powder is moved in at 10:44 powder is rammed 10:45 rammer is retracted breech is closed 10:48 gun begins to elevate 10:49 reaches full elevation at 10:54 total reload time of 25 seconds at max elevation total reload time of 20 seconds at 1/3rd elevation

this would only increase the time it takes to elevate the guns not the maximum elevation the maximum elevation is determined by the amount of free space below the guns and how restricted the gunhouse is this does not get in the way of the gun any more than normal elevation would as there is no reason for the hoist to swing below the breech the only instance of fast reloading major naval guns having limited elevation and fast reload is the german 15 inch gun which could cycle at 2.6 rounds per minute but the hoists would suffer very frequent breakdowns and was thus limited to only be able to supply 2 projectiles and the accompanying full charges per minute a general trend was for nations with acces to the pacific having high elevation capability (40+) while european/atlantic nations usually had a limited elevation capability of 35 degrees the only nations to have 45 degree elevation on almost all their new ww2 battleships were the japanese and americans the british germans italians french and british all had 30-35 degree elevation limits though the british 14 inch gun for KGV and the nelson 16 inch both have 40 degree elevation as can be seen the holes for the guns is generally what limits how high the guns can elevate the internal space is also a great limiting factor for the german 305mm gun (as pictured) the elevation is limited to 16 degrees due to the turret floor which made the guns hit the floor when recoiling when elevated to more than 16 degrees thus damaging the projectile hoist spaces below (generally not good for the heads of crew and could knock the guns off their mounts or knock them slightly out of place no longer making the gun have its previous proper zero) the more free space the more elevation the guns have as can be seen the the gun has significant space for elevation here while in the second picture of the german twin 12 inch gun turret you can see that there is a floor preventing the guns from elevating further than 16 degrees the german 12 inch gun was limited to 13.5 degrees before a small section above the barrel was cut out which allowed elevation up to 16 degrees (in the area where the gun barrel sticks out the top part of the roof armor as cut out) (yamato turret) can also be seen in the technical mission to japans scan of the yamato turret as shown a large open space is given for the breech and recoil of the gun when it fires at high elevation (if you look behind the breech theres also an outline of the breechs position at maximum recoil lenght) according to these gun diagrams (pre ww2 and are the only ones release to my knowledge) in none of these EXCEPT ONE does the hoist seem to be in the way of the elevation of the gun said one turret is this one (right blow this text) as can be seen its elevation is bad and the hoist seems to obstruct it from elevating until the hoist has moved down also while some of these hoists seem to obstruct the elevation of the gun the gun when recoiling moves into the open channel of the hoist which can be seen by the 2 last pictures where while it looks like on the first picture the recoil of the gun goes right into the hoist the hoist space is in fact empty when the hoist cart (carrying the projectile and powder) is not in the up position for reloading (as can be seen in the top down picture) (this can also be seen in the yamato picture) i cant tell if this is saying A turret is heavier so gun traverses and elevates slower B reloads faster so the gunnery control crew has less time to adjust aim if A this shouldn't effect accuracy this should effect time per shot aka reload time the longer it takes to elevate (you train the turret while reloading) the gun the longer the reload time is (elevating and de elevating is considered in reload time) because its automatic reloading its assumed the elevation of the gun is fast thus the turret is likely controlled by hydraulics this means they have a generally good elevation and train rate B this could be a problem but again this would just increase the reload time and not the accuracy if it was gonna decrease anything it should decrease AIMING TIME NOT ACCURACY aka it would take longer to reach a good firing solution as the fire-control crew has less time to make adjustments BUT the guns would be equally accurate WHEN they have the firing solution currently automatic loading in game reduces accuracy does not increase or change aiming time when it should not increase or decrease accuracy severely increase aiming time i can agree somewhat with the elevation penalty on early guns (such as the french single gun diagram which i posted) (although it seems like a post ww1 tech) but it still makes no sense that accuracy is impacted yet aiming speed is untouched aiming speed should be effected NOT accuracy BUT there should be a higher chance of turret flash fire upon a penetrating turret hit with automatic loading as due to firing faster there is a higher chance for powder bags to be in the gunhouse when being hit due to faster hoist speed to maintain a faster reload speed thus flash fire chance should be higher in short keep elevation thing if its wished (although i could only find very few guns where it had an effect) reduce aiming speed of guns with automatic loading by 30-50% increase chances of flash fire by 10-15%

just a thing that i was reminded of and thought i would post an idea/suggestion it might be an idea to add Emergency power in some form this means you can squeeze 1-3 knots extra speed out of the ship for a short period of time (lets say 30-20 minutes) but after the time period the ships top speed would be permanently reduced by TWICE the amount it was increased by during the engine overcharge a suicide rush with engines where the engines die completely after a time period but the ship gains a 15-20% speed boost for a short period of time could also be an idea if the engines are hit during this period it has a high likely hood to blow up the boilers in the ship leading to the ship exploding and loosing all engine power engine also have a chance to explode on their own when forced over limits to produce extra speed thus have a chance to explode generally speaking engine overcharge could be held for several hours usually 1-3 hours depending on ship but the ship would suffer a top speed loss of around 20-30% of its top speed this would be a bit op for academy missions (as they are usually shorter than 3 hours) in the campaign however this means your ships have engine overcharge for that battle and once the battle is over (or the around 3 hour limit is reached) their top speed falls by 20-30% when not in overcharge mode using overcharge mode for a second time would only increase speed by 10-15% (before said ship ever used overcharge) but the speed will drop by a further 20-30% of the top speed achieved AFTER it has used overcharge (aka its gonna do 60% of its original top speed) running overcharge several times on the same ship without replacing engines could HEAVILY increase the chance of boiler explosions source for engine overcharge being a thing the engineering crew removed the pressure limiter from her engines this is from a yt comment but it seems to be accurate checking with wikipedia which also states as high as 17.5 i have also seen claims that Ziggy Sprague overcharged an escort carriers engines to escape a japanese submarine reportedly The chief engineer complained about the boilers overheating. Ziggy Sprague told him "piss on them then, those boilers may be the only thing left if we take a torpedo"

neither would i the damage a single shot would cause "its just a 2200kg shell they said" "it dosent have that much filler" "its not that much pen" laughs in 45 inch point blank penetration

hmm interesting il try gather some data from naval battles to asses the general damage caused by shells it might be interesting to dig into but considering british 12 inch guns had 12kg bursting charges yes this is most likely correct especially considering the general smaller sizes of ships il post an update once i find some sources for general damage and how many shells were required to sink stuff in ww1/pre ww1 engagements

i mean i personally would like 19-20 inch guns like the japanese 51cm gun but yeah thats just for my 90k superton dreams i mean the french did have a 17 inch (431mm) gun in development although it never went very far the french 450mm gun was prioritized over the 431mm gun so only the 450mm gun was produced https://cdn-live.warthunder.com/uploads/7e/ec/ca/b59ecd97d1871694d252833cbd6f9c467e_lq/450mm+2.jpg http://cdn-live.warthunder.com/uploads/62/84/73/1e12545b128bf7bdbfa1e02fdd175ab919_lq/450mm 1.jpg https://i.imgur.com/z3lruch.png pieces of the gun were still there in the 1980s (specifically a large piece of the breech barrel is missing) but they were removed at some point along with the rest of the guns

generally speaking spalling is a much larger thing on ships much larger projectiles are being dealt with than with tanks spalling just has much less of an effect since ships are quite open and have alot of air volume tanks dont and most of said volume is taken up by crew Though turrets can take alot of spalling damage incapacitating crew if hit but generally speaking there is alot of material behind the front turret place which obsorbs the fragments (steel bits and structural bits equipment and so on gun barrels breech and the things holding the guns) even if a shell hits the belt armor or turret armor it can still spall behind if it had enough energy it might also stun the turret crew or jam the motor and so on but generally speaking spallings should not happend as often as they do as far as i have seen