Yar Matey

I admire your effort in trying to keep PvP2 alive, but at this point, with an overwhelming amount of players going pirate after witnessing their overwhelming dominance and most new players going USA, I think its safe to say that PvP2 has evolved in a 1v1 USA noobfest vs Well organized battle-hardened and experienced Pirate nation. Eventually Pirates will drowned out the the other nations. PvP2 needs to break up the USA and Pirates to promote a healthy server balance, or the server will die.

I am resurrecting this thread, because I stumbled across this relevant video about the 2 minute timers. I think the developers and supporters of the 2 minute timer really need to rethink the combat mechanics of this game. This 5v1 ganking has become the new norm. This needs to change or this game will not last. This video illustrates perfectly the average player in this new ruthless 2 minute timer world.

The thing is though, the group I used to play with all went pirate, and I don't want to be a pirate. I was loyal to my clan and Nation until my clan bailed for pirate. I am not mad at them, I understand their reasons, but there really was no one left for me to play with except NPG. No offence to NPG, but they don't have what I am looking for in a clan. I would really like to switch to another faction other than USA to add balance, but I cannot build up a nation without help. I am just 1 person with no group who wants to play a nation other than pirate or USA. So I went PvP1 and found a group of guys that are Swedish. Its nothing personal against PvP2, I just don't want to be USA or Pirate. Also, pirate has had way too many defectors as Cpt. Blackthorne has pointed out several times. You pirates need to diversify yourselves amongst the other nations and promote a healthy server of competition between the different factions. As it stands now, it looks like there is only going to be USA and Pirate soon. Griefing has been exacerbated by the developers game development decisions. With 2 minute timers and no safe zones near nation Capitals, it is a ruthless world out there for small faction players and new players. I know that there is a tiny safe zone near the capital, but it really is not enough. Drama is part of what makes these types of games so fun. There has to be drama to promote conflict in a pvp game. The thing is though, people need to realize that it is just a game and at the end of the day, losing your pixel ship doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things. You can always buy or build a new one.

No, I want to eat my popcorn and read this forum. But seriously, I may be playing on PvP1 for the time being, but I like to keep up with the politics of PvP2. I was there for about 1/2 of this drama unfolding at the time. I would like to come back and play there at some point when the dust settles down. I kind of understand were Rebel Witch is coming from because I was at the negotiations between Cordova and the United States. When we found out he was double dealing, my guild went on the offensive against Britain and took a few ports before the Alliance was formed. There was some drama/infighting between my clan and several other clans for attacking Britain. My clan ended up fracturing because of it and our best players went Pirate. As for me, I went PvP1 for a fresh new start. My personal opinion on the matter, BLACK should seriously back off and let Britain have some of its ports back. US should back off Spain and let them have more ports. You want to promote a healthy server and not wipe nations down to 1 port.

I got a better idea; how about the dev's improve the game by adding a user interface, adding pvp event hot spots where you can get rewarded with extra gold and better upgrades for winning, make port battles good instead of 3 magically floating towers out in the middle of the water, and then advertise the game so people know about it. Then we wont be having these discussions about merging the server. We want to grow the player-base, not make people who are having fun on PvP2 angry. I am currently playing on PvP1, but come from PvP2, and I still think merging the server is a bad idea.

Nonsense! Large battles requires a lot of skill as well, probably more the bigger the battle. Organizing 25 ships to stay in formation. Getting them all to focus fire.A well organized clan that have been working together for months will always destroy a PUG group. I seen a 10 man fleet that was well organized destroy a 25 man PUG fleet with more first second and third rates.

Mrdoomed: "I like to gank traders with impunity with zero chance of the traders I gank being saved from friendlies joining the battle" FIFY

I have heard players on more than one occasion complain about not being able to join battles. Claiming that it was "stupid", "dumb", "retarded". Its is not a lie. It is what it is. Exhibit A: http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/15206-ganking-squads-not-solved/

Look, a game like this where it has an open world that relys on Realm vs Realm for its combat system must have open and available battles for players to join, or this game will fall flat on its face before its even released. The people on this forums that are supporting 2 minute timers are not your average every day player. These are you well organized, most experienced players with Teamspeak or some other chat program to communicate. The average player that is sailing around solo either trading, looking for pvp battles, or doing missions is the MAJORITY of your player base. If they are sailing around and see that battle is closed every time they run into the PvP swords, they will just stop playing the game. If they are sailing around close to the nation capital and constanlty find themselves in 5v1 battles losing their ships, they will just leave and go play something else. They do not have the time or patients to go looking for PvP the way these well organized 5-10 man squads do. Your average everyday player logs in does a mission or 2, maybe does a port battle or wants to join a PvP battle or 2 in open world, then log off for the night. The only way to really balanced the RvR in this game and make it work for everyone is to have all PvP battles open for the entire duration of the battle, and have new players joining spawn farther and farther away from the point at which the battle started. Every 1 minute = 500 meters away from the battle. Its that simple. If you join 10 minutes late, you will be sailing a long time in the battle realm to get to where the action is. Also, when you are close to a port, within a few hundred meters in open world, players should not be able to attack each other. You should have to sail a certain distance away from the port and the enemy must have sailed a certain distanced away from port in order for either player to tag the other for combat.

The problem is, when I explain the situation, people on this forums dismiss it and then put up a wall by "claiming" that it is some flaw with me. They refuse to see any other aspect or any other point of view. Many, but not all, of the people posting here are like this, and it makes it difficult to explain the situation at hand. But, I will try anyway, because I want the game to succeed. 1) Having closed battles is BAD for a game like this because it prevents players from participating in battles. Now, I know that battles need some sort of timer before they close so that the whole server doesn't congregate in 1 battle, but 2 minutes stops pretty much everyone in the immediate area from participating except the few players in that immediate area and in open world. This creates an environment where the attacker almost always has the advantage, and this should not be the case. The attackers will always chose battles that look as though they are in their favor, and will run from battles that are not in their favor. With the 2 minute timer and the 2 minute no attack out of port, the attacker has zero risk whatsoever of losing. Usually the attackers are well organized and looking for prey when this happens. Since the 2 minute timer has been introduced, I have been in ZERO winning battles from being tagged in open world. Why? Because if my side had the advantage, we are the ones initiating the attack, and thus, I have been in ZERO losing battles if my group initiated the attack. Now that we have established that the attackers always have the advantage and will almost always certainly win, lets look at reason number 2 as to why 2 minute timers are BAD for this game. 2) Since the attackers always have the advantage, they can pretty much go anywhere at any time with very little risk while the people getting attacked will almost always be on the losing end. This means, they are attacking players right outside of nation capitals, free ports, pretty much anywhere. This is BAD because solo players, who are almost always new players, who have no experience, cannot build good ships because of crafting level and cannot make any headway in the game economically because as they are sailing around doing their thing, exploring, trading, doing missions they are constantly being attacked and losing their ships. Telling them they should not have brought out (insert ship here) is not an excuse to dismiss point number 2! 3) Since attackers can attack people anywhere anytime with impunity and no repercussions for their actions, there are zero places on the map that are safe. Players that are in port at a nations capital cannot exit port and come help you as you are getting ganked. This is bad because new players, no matter what ship they are in, have no real way to learn the mechanics of the game, do missions to get their foothold economically, and are always going to be outmatched by gank squads with their exceptional ships, with exceptional upgrades. Most likely the new guy soloing out in the open world is using an exceptional ship if he is lucky and most likely using basic and common upgrades for his ship. Telling the new guy "well, you should be rolling with a crew so you do not get ganked" is not an acceptable answer. The new guy should expect a certain level of security and saftey in what I would call, "the newb zone" where he can do missions, and trade, and just enjoy the game the way he wants to. This is a recipe for disaster because new players will never be able to get anywhere, and will quit the game. You guys dont seem to comprehend that. Now, I am not saying that 5 minute timers were the best solution to the problem, but at least with 5 minute timers, if a 5 man group tried to gank a player in a SOL right outside of a nations capital, they would get stomped by all the players poping out of port and joining the battle. The 5 minute timer was the only fail safe to protect new players. Now that is gone, and it is destroying this game.

I'll be brave enough to say it... You are a shortsighted fool and you and MrDoomed and several others on these forums are some of the most toxic players I have ever encountered in a video game. You offer little in the way of meaningful content and do nothing but troll the forums. You disrespect anyone who has a differing opinion than you and you are closed minded.

well, you fought for something that ruins the game for the majority of the games player base. Blocking people from joining battles in a game like this is a recipe for a fail game. People play this game to fight in battles, 2 minute timers take that away for most players. whats left for your average player is a gankfest for them. I never had a problem with 5 minute timers I was able to play the game just fine, sometimes I manage to get to battles, sometimes I didnt, but 2 minutes is absurdly low and it really should be rolled back at the very least to 3 or 4 minutes.

Sorry Hodo, I was typing these posts from a phone. I edited it for you so it says bear now. In my humble opinion, the 2 minute timers is the number one worst thing to happen to this game. It has made ganking far worse than I have ever seen before. I do not like the 2 minute timers and cannot stand this game with them. I want 5 minute timers. I expect a certain level of safety sailing off the coast of my nations capital. I used to do missions with my St. Pavel all the time solo with no problems before 2 minute timers were introduced before the buc ever existed. I am sorry you guys are too shortsighted to see why the 2 minute timers are really really bad for this game.

You play on a care bear server (PvP2) with no player pop and you accumulated your wealth with care bear 5 minute + timers and no crew costs. Come to PvP1 and try to build yourself up. There will be an enemy sitting in every free port you travel by just licking their chops to take your ship as soon as you sail close by, 4 more guys will pop out and happily take your ship from you.

I have logged 1300+ hours in this game all on a pvp server. On pvp2 I have so many ships and recourses. I can build any ship I want. I accumulated all this wealth mostly doing missions out of Tumbato and I lost a lot of ships in the process. But I didn't always lose because back then if I was in distress, a bunch from my nation could join the battle and help. The fact of the matter is, you got well established when it was much easier. No crew cost and no 2 minute timers. Go ahead I challenge you. Delete your account and start from scratch on pvp1. You have no mods no money and a basic cutter. Once you get into a decent ship you will go out do a mission and then lose it to a gank squad with green and basic upgrades, 2/3 to half your crew, half your armor because you just got out of a mission and the gank crew comes along and takes your ship just outside port because they were there waiting for someone to gank all day.

No I am a pvp player that is forced to do pve to get an economy going to build ships to pvp with. Now, I don't mind having to do a little pve to get money to buy recourses to build ships. But when I am forced to do pve to get recourses to craft I don't like getting ganked. I pvped all the time when I had stocks of ships to use.

You see, that's the problem, there is no nowhere that is safe. There are enemy ships everywhere I sail.I take missions that force me to venture out far from where I get them and I am always running into enemy ships.

So I just lost my ship from a group of guys in an elite gank fleet right next to a port. I am not salty or mad about it, but what I am is without a ship to even play the game. I told them that I was new and was trying to get established by doing missions but they do not care. They wanted blood, and of course they won easily as I was outnumbered 5 to 1. I just started a new faction on PvP1. I have no ships and no gold and was given a starter 1 durability Bucentaure to try and get established by doing missions. Well, I just got tagged right outside of a port before I could get my ship in, Guess I need to WIGGLE WIGGLE a little harder to get the option to join port to show up! Now I am down to a basic cutter. Because I lost this ship right outside a port that I couldn't get into before getting tagged and pulled into combat, I am no longer able to do missions to acquire money to get my economy rolling; I am down to a basic cutter. Why this is a problem is that the 2 minute timer caters to the hard core well established player and is relentless, brutal and unforgiving to new players. These gank fleets stalk waters that should be almost assured death if they sail in, instead, they get to gank with impunity with almost no risk. Also, I was 1-2 ports away from my Nation's capital. Anyone who thinks the 2 minute timer is a good idea, your a fool, and this game will die. If I an experienced level 50 crafter at max rank cannot get his economy rolling because of viscous and relentless gank fleets, no new player will stand a chance. Now, I am probably not going to have much difficulty recovering from my lost ship because I have a clan that can easily replace the the lost ship. But for the new players who finally just got their constitution, or 3rd rate, how long do you think their patients will last as gank fleets keep taking their ships from them that they are unable to replace over and over right outside ports that are literally a 2-5 minute sail away from the capital?

If anything, this idea will result in less ganking. You would have to wait 2 minutes to join a battle after leaving a free port, meaning the minimum distance from the battle you start when the battle starts is 1 KM away. The out of port ganking can be controlled by adjusting the no join timer, or by adjusting the distance you spawn away from the battle for every minute of time that passes in Open world. If the no join timer was upped to say 4 minutes, then you would be out 2 km on top of having to wait 4 minutes to join the battle. Overall, ganking would be much more difficult with this type of battle timer because: 1) the 5 man fleet that attacks the solo guy would have limited time to get him 2) If reinforcements join the battle to where the ganking fleet knows that the odds are stacked against them, they can sail away from the reinforcements and most likely escape the battle with ease due to the vast distances away the ships would spawn. This is nothing more than a troll comment and adds zero value to the discussion. I would greatly appreciate it if you would stop with these 1 liner smug comments. Just because someone has a different opinion than you do, does not make them a dishonest person. I have ganked in the past, but I do not go out of my way actively looking to gank players. 9 times out of 10, if I see a ship in open world that is easy prey, I let them go, unless it is someone who either has a bounty on their head or is someone who has irritated me previously.

Could you elaborate on what this 2 circle tagging is all about? I am not 100% sure on the specifics of how this is supposed to work.

Well, I think we can agree on one thing, whether you support the 2 minute timer or the 5 minute timers, the timer system sucks and a new options is needed. Preventing players to joining a battle should never be an acceptable solution to any open world game with realm battles. This makes for a bad experience for players just looking to have some fun in battles out in open world. I like this idea that has been proposed before; the later you join the battle, the farther you spawn from the action. For every 1 minute in open world time that passes once a battle has started, the spawn point is moved 500 meters away from the center of where the action started. If you arrive 10 minutes late, then you will be 5 kilometers out and the guy getting ganked will need to sail towards the friendly ships to guarantee that his help arrives in time to save him. This would create a race between the guy getting ganked and the gankers. The gankers would need to kill the ship before the reinforcements get within range. Simple math: If a ship joins 5 minute late, he will spawn 2.5 KM away from the battle. If he is sailing 10 knots, it will take him 8 minutes to get to the point where the battle started. Assuming he is sailing down wind and the player getting ganked is sailing upwind at 5 knots to get to his friends who are tying to get their to help, this would cut the time down to ~6 minutes. So in total, it will take your reinforcements a minimum of 11 minutes to come to your aid, including the open world travel of 5 minutes. Assuming battles never close, at some point, people will join battles and realize that they are just way too far away from the action to make any significant difference. Sure, they could join, but if you are joining a battle that has been going on for 30 minutes, good luck getting there to make any meaningful impact, you will be 15 km out at sea in the battle realm.

Is it possible to enable/disable this option in the game settings for people with better/worse PC's?

Again, I have logged over 1,200 hours in this game, and not once have I complained about the timers until it was changed to 2 minutes. You are just throwing out a strawman's logical fallacy. Then you resort to calling me lazy. How exactly does wanting to sail solo equate to being lazy? I like doing missions solo once in a while and I usually do my trade runs solo in a ship that has been tagged many times but never been caught in battle, and that's about the extent of my solo play. On the contrary, I find solo trade missions quite adrenaline pumping because the risk of getting caught is always there. I have transported as many as 20 high grade notes in my exceptional fir traders lynx from my capital to a free port for transport to another free-port where I do my ship building, and there has almost always been enemy ships around looking to steal my precious cargo. That does not mean however that I think 2 minute timers are healthy for the game.

Because there was lots of PvP and there were big battles all over the place. That is reason enough for me to advocate for 5 minute battle timers even though they come with their own problems. look, I am not saying I have not had fun with 2 minute timers. I have found myself in closely matched 1v2's, 3v4s, 5v5's. But when we had 5 minute timers, we had much bigger epic battles, 10v10's and higher. I do not think 5 minute timers is the answer to all the games problems and flaws, but I think 2 minute timers is probably the most damaging change to this game I have seen. Maybe deadman's chest is a little bit more damaging? IDK. What has not been tried? How about 3 minute timers, 4 minute timers? How about 1 hour timers, where you just spawn farther and farther away from the action the longer it takes you to get there in open world?

look, just like Æthlstan, I have logged 1377 hours in this game. I have seen the rise and fall of many guilds, been in guilds that rose and fell, been in 25 man port battles and empty port battles, been ganked when there were 5 minute timers and 2 minute timers; I have seen it all. I am telling you the game was better with 5 minute timers. When I first started playing this game, I would leave port and there would be PvP everywhere. I could join and get into the action quickly. I have never once complained about timers until 2 minute timers were forced on us. I know personally people who have left because of the lack of PvP that came with the 2 minute timers. When you sail out of port and there is battle after battle closed because of a timer that expired, it blocks people from playing your game. The largest drop off in player base I have seen is when 2 minute timers were implemented. Now you can make the argument for 2 minute times all you want, with your realism arguments, about how in RL you couldn't participate in a battle 3 ports down, or how it makes grossly lopsided 20v1's, or how you could plead in your nation chat that you got attacked and get reinforcements or how at this particular battle back in 1877 this happened. But the fact of the matter is, your average every day player wants to log in and get into the action as quickly as possible. I am sorry that with 5 minute timers you don't get to gank traders and lone wanderers with your organized TS gank squads, but what you gain is PvP everywhere with lots of players participating. I personally do not find ganking traders and lone ships at sea with a 5 man gank squad enjoyable. I do not enjoy getting ganked by 5 guys outside of ports either, and I do not think the majority of your players who left enjoy it either. All the 2 minute timer does is make the game less noob friendly and caters more to the hardcore TS organized players. The 2 minute timer is a broken combat mechanic for a game like this and your game will die a slow painful death as the player-base dwindles more and more. This needs to be addressed ASAP to bring big combat battles back to bring back the player base that just wants to get into the action. The open world adds the immersive experience of trading and sailing from port to port, and I enjoy that aspect of the game, but without a good combat system, your game sucks for the majority of gamers out there.