Wagram

Blame treacherous Louis XVI (not as harmless as he's usually being described) for the failure of this experiment. HE was not satisfied to be a constitutional monarch but wanted to be an absolutist sovereign ("by the grace of God") again. To reach this end he and the reactionary part of the nobility were ready to sell the nation and even convey away large territories of the kingdom of France. And yes - horrible! - it was not the "Constitution" but the "Convention" ("la Terreur") which - for the first time in the history of mankind - introduced the motto "one man, one vote". Yes, still imperfect, as women were still denied the same rights (I'm an advocate of: "one adult, one vote"), but definitely a lot more than what was offered by the anti-democratic system of census suffrage that prevailed in the few "democracies" elsewhere. Typically, the census suffrage was reintroduced after the fall of Robespierre ... ☹️

La seule date que je vois et qui pourrait être la date de l'agrément et de la signature du document c'est le 20 germinal an II = 9 avril 1794.

Another interesting point - the signature at the lower right seems to read: "Vu et approuvé par le Représent ...[... ant (en mission du Comité de salut public)] Jeanbon [Saint-André (or St. André)?]" Compare with his signature here (first on the upper left): Other suggestions?

No, I'm not talking about a direct relation between Burgues Missiessy and the "Droits de l'Homme". I'm just referring to the fact that his treatise "Installation des vaisseaux ..." - dated 1797 - is accompanied by a drawing of a 74-gun ship with one-storey galleries as well (see above). So, the design as such was still topical under the Directoire.

D'accord, il se peut bien que l'idéologie ait également joué un rôle, mais, en tout cas, la conception était de même d'utilité pratique (apparemment). Je pense que l'amiral Burgues Missiessy fut un homme très terre à terre ....

Yes, that just came to my mind as well: camouflage, low profile, solidity. This may well have been ideas underlying this design.

The one-storey stern and quarter galleries are an interesting feature. Perhaps an attempt to lower the costs of the ornaments? A handful of Batavian Republic ships-of the-line show the same characteristic (e.g. the 80-gun "Erkentenis" of 1799). https://www.maritiemdigitaal.nl/index.cfm?event=search.getdetail&id=100023979 https://www.maritiemdigitaal.nl/index.cfm?event=search.getdetail&id=100023990 It seems the design was not very much liked and soon abandoned ... I don't know whether the ornaments were executed as planned. Contemporary British and mid-19th century French images of the "Droits de l'Homme" show the usual two-story galleries but I doubt very much that the authors of either had ever seen original plans of the ship, not to speak of the original ship. They may just have known that it was a Téméraire class ship and represented the known type of galleries for the majority of those ships. So, in my opinion, the ornaments may indeed have been executed as seen on the Musée Carnavalet drawing.

I'm perplexed. Apparently, the Musée Carnavalet holds a drawing of the ornaments of the 74-gun ship "Droits de l'Homme", launched at Lorient in 1794. Curiously, they look more like those of a frigate than of a Téméraire class ship-of-the-line. http://parismuseescollections.paris.fr/fr/musee-carnavalet/oeuvres/reproduction-d-un-dessin-de-la-sculpture-du-vaisseau-les-droits-de-l-homme#infos-principales The nearest that comes to my mind is the design of the 74-gun ship in Burgues Missiessy's "Installation des vaisseaux..." (1797). https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k8596353/f439.image Any comments?

Ah, I see. Thanks for the elucidation.

Le Boiteux I'm confused. This last photo of yours, looks like a model ship. Is there a model of "Redoutable"? When was it built? Where is it preserved? If there is a model there must be a figurehead, too. This discussion regarding the figurehead we had over there in the thread on the "French ship Redoutable" ... did you post this photo there? Can't find it. Do you have more photos of this model?

For the sake of completeness, I would like to draw everybody's attention to Clarkson Stanfield's painting of the battle of Trafalgar. The figurehead of the Redoutable is a full figure. Could be a cloaked Greek or Roman warrior with cuirass and crested helmet, but I'm not sure. Also, the painting is not contemporary (dated 1836) and I don't know whether Stanfield is reliable in this respect. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/88/The_Battle_of_Trafalgar_by_William_Clarkson_Stanfield.jpg

In the French navy, simple busts were not used as figureheads for ships-of-the line until after the Napoleonic era. So yes, a Restauration era piece at the earliest. As there existed no ship-of-the-line named "Duquesne" under the Restauration, the bust probably was just an isolated product of workmanship, perhaps a study, perhaps intended for a projected but never realized "Duquesne". Under the Empire, there was a training vessel rebaptized "Duquesne" in 1811, the former Russian ship-of-the-line "Moskva" (74, 1799, Arkhangelsk), sold to France in 1809 at Toulon. According to a watercolour by André (or Andrea) Moretti, dated 1812, her figurehead was a full figure (representing either a human or an eagle, I'm not sure), and not a bust.

Regarding the figurehead of the "Redoutable", ex-"Suffren", this may well have been a full figure of "Suffren", in my opinion. Of course, the name of the ship was changed for political reasons in 1794 but, still, as an admiral, Suffren served as a role model for the successful French naval hero even during the Republic (and certainly during the Empire). And that was what the Revolutionary navy needed badly. Allegedly, the British had called Suffren - who had outmanoeuvred and defeated them on several occasions - "Admiral Satan". So, maybe, the "Suffren's" figurehead was left in place when it was rebaptized "Redoubtable", not as a representation of Suffren the man, but as a representation of the redoubtable, awe-inspiring "Satan"? As no official document representing or describing the figurehead of the "Suffren"/"Redoutable" appears to have emerged so far, two of the four views of the "Redoutable" in the heat of the action during the battle of Trafalgar by Louis-Philippe Crépin, dated 1806, at least indicate that its figurehead actually was a full human figure. Too bad that it is not possible to clearly recognize whether or not it represented Suffren. https://www.christies.com/lotfinder/Lot/louis-philippe-crepin-paris-1772-1851-four-views-of-5835082-details.aspx There is, however, one point that would rather exclude that the figurehead of the "Redoutable" represented admiral Suffren in 1805. In 1803, another 74-gun ship was launched and baptized "Suffren". Logically, the new ship's figurehead should have been provided with a figurehead representing Suffren. As a matter of fact, there is a contemporary watercolour showing this second "Suffren", and its figurehead appears to represent (sort of) admiral Suffren. "Redoutable" was refitted for the last time in 1801-1802. If the figurehead of the first "Suffren" had been kept until this date, it would probably have been replaced - or altered - on this occasion at the latest?

Yes, I agree.

The Implacable figurehead has nothing to do with the original French figurehead, it's British throughout. Gérard Delacroix posted an extract from a French document - apparently contemporary and, possibly, some kind of instruction from the administration destined for the master sculptor responsible for the ship's decorations? - a few years ago here (entry of 29 Nov 2011, 17:01): https://5500.forumactif.org/t610p125-le-duguay-trouin-de-1800-alias-hms-implacable So, the original French figurehead was a full figure representing a c.1700 French "warrior" - commanding officer. Rough translation into English: "... The figure will represent a warrior dressed in the French fashion at the time of Duguay-Trouin. He will wear a belt tied on the left side from which will hang a sword on the hilt of which he will rest his left hand. The right hand extended forward will indicate by its position the action of issuing an order." .

An interesting treatise related to the subject of French naval signals during the late 18th and early 19th centuries, including modern graphic renderings in colour of 1778 Du Pavillon and An IX (1801) Consular era signals (in French) : https://archimer.ifremer.fr/doc/2007/rapport-3419.pdf

The Malta Maritime Museum at Birgu owns a model of an 80 gun ship-of-the-line of which they say it represents the French "Le Bucentaure". https://artsandculture.google.com/exhibit/vwJS_knH3-niJA I don't know when exactly the model was manufactured and how it came to Malta, or whether it was perhaps made there. It could be contemporary and French made, in my opinion. But, anyway, I cannot imagine how one could identify this ship as "Le Bucentaure" as there is plenty of contemporary evidence that the figurehead of that ship actually was a bucentaur. The model's figurehead, however, is a human figure holding an object in the left. The object looks like a navigation instrument but the figure itself is dressed in what looks like typical alpine costume, to me. Therefore, I wonder whether the sculptor didn't mistake a crossbow for some nautical instrument? (Or, perhaps, he deliberately assimilated crossbow and nautical instrument?) If so, I'd say that the ship represents the 80 gun ship "Le Guillaume Tell" which would make perfect sense as "Le Guillaume Tell" managed to escape to Malta after the battle of the Nile (Aboukir) in 1798, took part in the defence of the island against the British in 1800, and was renamed "Malta" after its capture. So, there is a direct historical connection between "Le Guillaume Tell" and the Island of Malta. A plan of "HMS Malta" is kept in the National Maritime Museum but, if I'm not mistaken, it's not the plan of the ship "as taken" but "as fitted" (i.e. modified). Opinions?

I don't know whether this issue is of any interest to anybody here but on another forum (of which I am not a member) someone appeared to be quite interested in getting a serious answer: http://theminiaturespage.com/boards/msg.mv?id=515549 Just in case someone here happens to be a member of the said forum, I'd like to point out that there is a contemporary document which not only includes a colour scheme of all telegraphic signal flags used by the French navy during the Napoleonic wars but also explains how they were used, including the code-key: https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k65481789/f4.image Note: The telegraphic signal flags system was supplementary only to the ordinary signal flags system used for fleet communication by day. It was designed to transmit news or advice of special importance which could not be communicated with the ordinary system. The ordinary system and flags apparently were those developed by the Chevalier du Pavillon in the late 1770s. This is a book including the 1801 edition (Signaux généraux de jour, de nuit et de brume, à voile et à l'ancre, à l'usage des Armées navales de la République Française, Paris An IX) which also contains colour representations of the flags of the ordinary system. Unfortunately, I have not yet been able to find an online source for this manual: https://www.iberlibro.com/Signaux-g%C3%A9n%C3%A9raux-jour-nuit-brume-voile/22850195800/bd#&gid=1&pid=2

Yes, a SoL. It's "Le Pégase". From a painting by Dominic Serres ( I think someone posted the painting before, somewhere).

"L'uniforme de gala a varié au cours des siècles12. Actuellement, il est de couleur rouge, jaune et bleu (le bleu et le jaune sont les couleurs de la famille Della Rovere à laquelle appartenait Jules II, le rouge a été ajouté par son successeur Léon X, un Médicis), n'a pas été dessiné par Michel-Ange pendant la Renaissance comme le veut une légende tenace, mais est l'œuvre de Jules Repond (1853 - 1933), commandant de la garde de 1910 à 1921, qui s'inspira en 1914 des fresques de Raphaël13." https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garde_suisse_pontificale#Uniforme Chacun à son goût. Moi, je suis historien...

La progéniture et les re-enactors - les ridicules du jour

The Elba flag? Arrgh! This is how the sanctified Emperor of the French used to celebrate his birthday (in 1813, five days earlier, 10th August, for military reasons...) C'est ainsi que l'empereur sanctifié des Français avait l'habitude de célébrer son anniversaire (en 1813, cinq jours plus tôt, le 10 août, pour des raisons militaires ...)

Fluffy Fishy brought up more on this topic earlier: https://forum.game-labs.net/topic/25755-an-18th-century-machine-gun/