Patch thoughts.

[Daguse]

6 hours ago, admin said:

this could be a problem of course. and needs to be addressed

Insurance that is bought with marks. 

[The Spud]

What about a "Bank"?

With a loan you can get of like max 100k gold which is enough to buy and outfit a 6th rate. Every battle you do and you get gold 25% goes towards paying back that 100k gold. You can always pay back faster. A small interest is to be payed on the loan.

Say you payed back 20k gold, you can then take a new loan of 20k, your total debt can never be over 100k. Would be ideal to get people started as after you get out of the cutter, battles are more rewarding. Could disable it for higher ranks. Or limit it to a one time use only.

It would however benefit those running alts, who could pick a loan, transfer the gold, and never do battles so they never pay back the loan.

[Hethwill]

3 hours ago, The Spud said:

What about a "Bank"?

With a loan you can get of like max 100k gold which is enough to buy and outfit a 6th rate. Every battle you do and you get gold 25% goes towards paying back that 100k gold. You can always pay back faster. A small interest is to be payed on the loan.

Say you payed back 20k gold, you can then take a new loan of 20k, your total debt can never be over 100k. Would be ideal to get people started as after you get out of the cutter, battles are more rewarding. Could disable it for higher ranks. Or limit it to a one time use only.

It would however benefit those running alts, who could pick a loan, transfer the gold, and never do battles so they never pay back the loan.

Exploitable to the n degree.

I doubt the Navy Board would send the marines after my captain if he would simply transfer the loan funds to a off-shore account and simply disappear from the Caribbean for good ( deleted character ).

[The Spud]

3 minutes ago, The Red Duke said:

Exploitable to the n degree.

I doubt the Navy Board would send the marines after my captain if he would simply transfer the loan funds to a off-shore account and simply disappear from the Caribbean for good ( deleted character ).

That is obviously true, and I am aware of that, it would only be exploitable for people running alts. As after every battle the bank would automaticaly deduct 25% or more from the total gains. So you could only avoid paying back the bank if you do no battles at all. It would also easily show what accounts are alts and which accounts not.

As in Account A, account B and account C all loaned 100k and transfered it to account D, and no payments have been made by A, B or C.

Other than that you can't realy do any exploiting, and a 100k is not that much money.

Meaning that even if people with alts abuse it, its not going to give them a massive advantage, anyways no bigger advantage than the ones they allready have.
People with alts allready have extra redeemables anyways.

[Hethwill]

Couldn't I simply transfer to a friend on another server over and over again ? Need no alts for that

[The Spud]

Just now, The Red Duke said:

Couldn't I simply transfer to a friend on another server over and over again ? Need no alts for that

 

You can loan a 100k and give it to your friend, but you will be the one who's going to have to pay back the bank. So unless you never battle, which I doubt, you will indeed have fooled the bank in giving you a 100k. If you do battle the bank will automaticaly deduct 25 or 50% from your gains.

You can not take indefinite loans, one account can have a max debt of 100k with the bank. You can transfer the money as much as you want, to maybe make it untrackable for the devs. But unless the account who loaned never ever battles (which only alts would do maybe) the money will be payed back at some point.

Optionaly you can reloan the money you allreay payed back, say you payed back 20k, so your outstanding debt is 80k, you can then take up.

The only loophole is that someone would loan it and would never battle, so they would never pay it back.
Which I think nobody would ever do, except ALTS.

 

[Hethwill]

There's no account synchronization. Once you delete a character is gone for good along with all assets.

I am not against the proposal I am just looking at it in the exploitable POV.

I did present a insurance idea a while ago a indeed ( thanks to some members ) was shown how it would be exploited easy even with no alts.

 

[Anne Wildcat]

3 minutes ago, Hodo said:

I dont worry about other players, my first 250k in this patch was from another player hauling goods in 3 trader brigs to Charleston.   I capped one let two basic cutters that were in the attack with me take the other two, and I took what cargo they couldnt haul in my Snow.  

I hate sinking ships that I can capture and sale for a profit.  But I am a privateer at heart.  

Nice job! There definitely need to be more people out there interested in trader raiding than making money or grinding skill slots

[Farrago]

What about a set of nontradable medium cannons on credit for a ship appropriate to the rank? Payback with interest would still be as a cut of "winnings". Difficult to exploit I think and could give us all (including newbies) a nudge in the right direction. 

[Hethwill]

Question about cannons/carronades manufacturers aka. Armament Dealers

How much was the investment cost for:

- Establishing the outposts and buildings

Another question:

- How much does it cost to produce one cannon 6 pounds long or equivalent carronade 12 pounds

Thank you for your answers.

 

[Farrago]

15 minutes ago, The Red Duke said:

Question about cannons/carronades manufacturers aka. Armament Dealers

How much was the investment cost for:

- Establishing the outposts and buildings

Another question:

- How much does it cost to produce one cannon 6 pounds long or equivalent carronade 12 pounds

Thank you for your answers.

 

It's difficult to give you exact costs because I am not an expert in my accounting software and these costs would actually be HIGHER if I had not been able to capture some of the necessary materials to establish the outpost or produce cannons. I am not factoring in labor hours needed to get mats to build workshop, mine iron, or grow oak.

Establish outpost ($10,000) and workshop ($197,934) = $207,934

My Current Cost to produce 6lb medium: $874 + 4 Labor Hours

My Current Cost to produce 12 lb carronade: $344 + 1 Labor Hour

I don't know how much it would be to produce a 6lb long as I have no access to coal.

By the way, the way I have been pricing my cannons for sale is cost + 50% +5% (contract charge) +5% per labor hour. My price comes in significantly under the NPC store but I don't know if I will be able to maintain this "low" price and continue operating because I'm losing the mining/forestry labor hours and real time to transport the mats. It's not really paying off right now.

Edited May 29, 2017 by Farrago

[Hethwill]

Thanks for the preliminary answer on your end of the stick

So, theoretically, investors on armament manufacture and trade can establish a solid market by simply undercutting the prices of the NPC store ( that only sells mediums ).

[Farrago]

3 minutes ago, The Red Duke said:

Thanks for the preliminary answer on your end of the stick

So, theoretically, investors on armament manufacture and trade can establish a solid market by simply undercutting the prices of the NPC store ( that only sells mediums ).

Theoretically yes. However, at least with no coal and no start up capital, I've found that it is quite the slow growth industry. For example, I can only afford to produce a few dozen mediums and carronades a day which under my current model might net me $100k. If I spent the same real life time searching to buy trade goods low and sailing to sell high I could make more money. Part of the problem is the process of crafting the mats, getting them to your workshop, making the cannons and either getting them to market to selling them at the same loc, creating sell contracts, redeeming sell contracts so I get my money is tedious and take a lot of real world time.

[Remus]

5 hours ago, The Red Duke said:

Question about cannons/carronades manufacturers aka. Armament Dealers

How much was the investment cost for:

- Establishing the outposts and buildings

Another question:

- How much does it cost to produce one cannon 6 pounds long or equivalent carronade 12 pounds

Thank you for your answers.

I cannot really add any more to @Farrago's post, but I'll write much the same things in a different way:

Start up is nearly 200k 300k excluding outposts. Add another 10k and maybe another outpost for coal

• Buildings: 180k (workshop, oak, iron, stone)
• Resources: 16.8k 96k (7.1k 73k for oak logs, 1k 10k for stone, 8.7k 13k for iron fittings)

Base cost of a 6lb long is 1240, taking 7.8 LH. 12lb carronade is 349, taking 1.83 LH.

When you first set up cannon prices on Testbed I saw they were exactly 3 times the base cost. With the change to charcoal this has changed somewhat, but mediums are now all about 2.85 times base cost. Personally I don't like working with base cost mark-ups but prefer to give a price to labour hours. Shop cannons are priced at 250-260 per LH. Players should have no hesitation in undercutting this quite considerably and, as I have said before, I reckon NPC cannons are well-priced to encourage players to make them themselves.

However it seems odd for us to be encouraged to use our valuable labour hours to make something which NPCs also make. Oh well, I guess we'll all just put player-made cannons on NPC-built ships.

Edited May 29, 2017 by Remus
Corrected resource costs

[Remus]

5 hours ago, The Red Duke said:

Thanks for the preliminary answer on your end of the stick

So, theoretically, investors on armament manufacture and trade can establish a solid market by simply undercutting the prices of the NPC store ( that only sells mediums ).

My last post was wrong.

Start up costs are closer to 300k. 73k for the logs, 10k for stone and 13k for iron fittings - I don't know what I was thinkiing.

[HachiRoku]

On 5/28/2017 at 11:20 AM, koltes said:

While I'm all against grinding ships in order to level the ship you want to sail I don't think that your point is completely fair.
1. You don't have to earn PVP Marks to build the ship. You can always just buy the ship from other people, which what I was doing for good 5 months before I hit 50 lvl crafter;
2. You don't have to sail 4th rate or above to experience PVP. In fact the most exciting pvp in the OW comes in 5th rate package

Secondly, while would you feel bad fighting and winning? When you are fighting newbs you are giving them a chance to learn. Experience the thrill. If there would not be anything at stake there would be no thrill. As for loosing ships they will learn fast enough to sail what they can afford to lose.

Risk of losing a lot and great rewards is what will make this game shine

 

 

They should not, but its not the game's fault. Its ok to lose pixels. When newbs will finally learn few things, apply them to practice and finally see good results their happiness will be 1000 times more than if their previous loses where more like "meh, whatever"

Right now because no one have any wealth to share and its a pond with sharks of course the competition is great. However few weeks later newbs will be given shit for free again.
I have tought so many new players right there in the battle instance and plenty have admitted that have learned more in this one battle with me than sailing for 2-3 months.

The community will get it sorted when its ready. Please don't make the game less risky. We will adjust. We always have

You think a crafter is going to earn 15 pvp marks for a ship and simply sell it? What is a ship that needs 15 marks worth? 1million or more? 5 pvp marks is killing a surprise alone and with the current repair model you can't take to many repairs with you cause you're too slow. You need to sail for pvp and 15 marks is a good bit of work unless you have my surprise that does 14 knots with 200 repairs. I would know what ship one needs for pvp and I will not play anything below a trinc because I believe the smaller 5th rates are overpowerd by high turn rates and people sail them cause it's easy mode stern raking until they try raking my trinc :)). 90% of the surprise and frigate pvpers don't know how to sail because understanding the wind and Manuel sailing have nothing to do with eachother. I've always hated people being critical of others that can't q,e,z,c because they think that's sailing. A ship like a Connie needs be cheap because it is the first ship that helps/forces new people that want to learn how to sail how to really sail and it's not as hardcore as trinc. More simply put its a good ship to learn in. In my opinion anything up to 3rd rates need to be pvp free to give casuals peace and time to learn. If the want to sail a second rate or above its pvp time and they can afford to loose a couple of ships to fights against better players. 

Anyway conquest marks and aggy building is also an issue. That's another issue and I'm sure it has or will be pointed out.

[Hethwill]

Shipbuilders might struck deals with combatants and supply ships at extremely reduced costs in exchange of marks ? Is a valid option.

 

[Mamen]

I like the idea of one dura ships... but with such a high grindin level as at the moment and propably game mechanics goin from one extreme to next one (cause so many things've been revamped and need another testings) makes me feel that maybe its better to wait for full release in 2019 :D:D:D