How to handle neutrals?

[Johny Reb]

Admin has shown some indecisiveness about how to handle neutrals and even have brought up the possibility of removing them altogether. I want to brainstorm another idea. I'm not necessarily advocating this idea, I'm just brainstorming it because ultimately, we don't need another nation with our current population but if the admin chooses to keep the neutrals in game as a player choice then how about.....

 

Neutrals can sail under the flag of their choice (like russian, ottoman, etc) but act together like a single nation. The current rules apply to neutrals with some changes. First, neutrals will often be in contention with another nation but only for a very short time and the computer will randomly generate that contention.

During the period you are in contention with the neutral nation, some ports will open up to be captured as if the contention is with certain cities and not every nation represented by the neutral status therefore you are not at war with the entire neutral territory but just specific cities. Since computer generated contention only lasts a few short days, nations must be decisive if they are to capture that port and they must evaluate if it is necessary and valuable to direct resources to take that port. Neutrals should have a similar opportunity to attack the nation back.

 

Optional ideas:

When a neutral port is placed in contention the computer can generate the ports ownership randomly from the neutral flags that players use. So, the server selects Selam to be in contention with the US and it chooses the Russian's to be in control of that port. So the US has the option of attacking Selam and only the neutral players that sail with a Russian flag leaving other neutrals to ply their trade without harassment.

 

Pirates. If they successfully raid a neutral port that has been captured by a nation then the port returns to neutral status at the conclusion of the raid.

[Chustler]

I'm all for removal of neutrals myself.

[Magnum]

I'm all for removal of neutrals myself.

 

Wait, What - who would get their ports?

[Chustler]

Wait, What - who would get their ports?

Some could go to nations. I don't mind the idea of lawless and/or unaffiliated ports, but I don't like the idea of "neutral" players.

[maturin]

Wait, What - who would get their ports?

There weren't any 'neutral' ports in the Caribbean IRL.

 

If the current free-for-all of nations turned into a war between coalitions, there would be zero need for neutral ports.

 

Neutral flags should exist for PvE players, though. Ideally as a flag of convenience so that neutral status can be changed.

 

 

 

I don't mind the idea of lawless and/or unaffiliated ports, but I don't like the idea of "neutral" players.

You have a hard time with the idea of some countries not being at war?

[Mulcaster]

I think that "neutrals" (and pirate ports as well) should be replaced by "open" ports.  These represent corrupt officials who will look the other way for a bribe (or a percentage of the profits).  This would allow smugglers and pirates to "launder" their contraband.  In game terms, if a captain tries to enter a port that is not nominally part of their nation but is in fact "open" they would have to pay a bribe.  The size of the bribe could vary, depending upon the status or reputation of the captain.  Pirates or those of low reputation would have to pay more.  But this would give them a place to sell their cargoes, no matter how they got them.

 

For example, Marin is "nominally" a French port but is in fact "open."  A French merchant could sail there as normal.  A British player (or a pirate or other nationality) could sail there and sell his or her goods, but only after they pay a bribe.  Smugglers have a place to sell their contraband.  "Honest" merchants can buy goods there that may not be available elsewhere.

[Chustler]

You have a hard time with the idea of some countries not being at war?

I'm not sure where I wrote anything about not wanting nations to be able to ally... I fully support nations being able to be friendly.

[Powderhorn]

So, this came up in the "Shades of grey" thread, and I think a lot of wickets can be hit as far as handling pirates and neutrals go from some ideas inspired there.

 

 

Hey guys

 

Straight into it - heres what i think should happen;

 

Aside from a very few home locations (ie. Matthew town etc.) pirates should lose all other ports.

 

Dependant on 2 factors pirates can enter any nationality port -  A, their notoriety and B, that particular ports transparency.

 

It could be that the further you get from a nation's capital, the less stringent their entry criteria is. So as long as you haven't harmed anything from that port you could enter as a pirate. 

 

This also finally will open up the possibility of smuggling goods between nations as potentially you could be at war with them but still enter their far away 'shady' ports and sell high value or contraband items - for a reasonable fee of course.

 

Neutrals will have no 'home' ports. why? because they are not represented in this area. As a neutral you use OTHER nation's ports and can be the trading bridge between enemies. All neutral ports will get added to the in game nations but will be the least patriotic, the easiest to capture, and the best for players who ride the line between legal and not.

 

As a possible future tool nation navies can patrol around their shadier ports possibly over time changing its status towards greater loyalty - but as soon as patrols cease the status quo will emerge.

 

Smaller nations can be added to appease various players but the same rules would apply. 

 

In fact in this ruleset why have a neutral faction at all? just pick a starting nation and you could potentially trade with any nation - as long as you knew where to go.

 

 

pick apart and revise at will.

 

Dazed

 

 

This seems like a really good idea.  Basically a function of notoriety of the pirate in question and the lawlessness of the port.  Maturin raises an excellent point, so perhaps that could be resolved by having lawlessness not be a fixed number, but a variable depending on proximity to capital and proximity of / frequency of national patrols.  At that point, neutrals could be gotten rid of entirely, and if you wanted to play an "Unaffiliated" character, just don't attack other vessels which would increase your notoriety.

 

That could further be enhanced by essentially recreating the Berlin Decree and the Orders in Council of 1807.  (If you trade with our enemies, you are subject to seizure.)  A way to do that would be to (with a diplomatic system in place) allow for trade embargos on other nations.  If a ship is seen entering or leaving a harbor, it can be attacked by the nation so embargoing.

 

This would really blur the line between smuggling and piracy, which, I think would be a very good thing indeed.

 

 

This also very neatly handles the "What do pirates 'Get' from being pirates?" question - Access to ports that others might not have access to.

[PIerrick de Badas]

Having a pve nation is a must have to not worrie some players. I m for the idea to see 100% pve players playing in the same serv as me.

I just don t want them to interact with pop players any way or multiaccount will make problem with players using alt to trade for example

[Black Boots]

I don't have a intelligent or inovative plan like many do, but I really don't like the idea of a neutral nation, i'd keep the ports neutral but take away the nation itself. I think the "trader class" should be within each nation (except Pirate), they should have special perks and have a certain level of immunity to being attacked, but also have some major drawbacks.

[Magnum]

Yea, a "Neutral" nation in this game is a conundrum - it's white flag implies that it has no national self interest, how can that be?

 

In real life some Nations are able to maintain a "position" of neutrality - but the vigorously maintain their self interest and are very involved in the politics around them, Switzerland is an example. Germany didn't avoid invading Switzerland out of respect - it was because they knew the Swiss would kick their ass in a war.

 

I agree "merchant" should be a separate alt and have different rank structure than the "Navy Officer" alt.

 

I would like to see each account have three alts (Navy Officer, Merchant and Pirate) with the Dev's able to sell an additional alt or two to people to raise cash.

[furyGer]

Yesterday i saw a neutral,  join a battle and block the own teammate,  so he can't flee for the overwhelming enemies.. ... ...  And after that,  nobody can't attack him. OMG.. .. . Hehe but if that's he only want to do in this game,  let him.