"Naval Arms Race" mod overhaul. BETA v11.4 - for UAD v1.5.1.6

[o Barão]

BETA v3.0.9 N.A.R. changelog:

• Updated to UAD 1.4.0.8 Opt x2
• Accuracy bonus and penalties from beam and draught limited to 7.5% from the previous 10% to balance a little the player ships designs against the AI.
• Guncotton will only become obsolete when TNT is available, giving the player a safe option to use.

[o Barão]

BETA v3.1.0 N.A.R. changelog:

• Subs stats reworked and rebalanced. Nerfed*

*If I notice the subs to be weak, I will buff them.

 

Small coastal subs: Difficult to detect, low firepower, cheap, low range, weak hull integrity

Ocean subs: All average

Cruiser subs: Very powerful, the best range, good hull integrity, very easy to detect, expensive. Glass cannons?

Fleet subs: Powerful, great range, the best hull integrity, easy to detect, the most expensive

[CenturionsofRome]

I take it there's no way to make the AI stand and fight rather than always running away? I know the custom battle AI is programed to not run, any way to replace the campaign AI with it?

[o Barão]

30 minutes ago, CenturionsofRome said:

I take it there's no way to make the AI stand and fight rather than always running away? I know the custom battle AI is programed to not run, any way to replace the campaign AI with it?

There is a way, but the devs made significant improvements in that area in the last update, so I suggest you to try it first. In fact IMO, the changes were too much. In my current campaign, I am seeing the AI fighting to the last man in most battles, all dying instead of fleeing.

[CenturionsofRome]

13 minutes ago, o Barão said:

There is a way, but the devs made significant improvements in that area in the last update, so I suggest you to try it first. In fact IMO, the changes were too much. In my current campaign, I am seeing the AI fighting to the last man in most battles, all dying instead of fleeing.

Honestly, I prefer that to constant stern chases. 

[MDHansen]

40 minutes ago, o Barão said:

There is a way, but the devs made significant improvements in that area in the last update, so I suggest you to try it first. In fact IMO, the changes were too much. In my current campaign, I am seeing the AI fighting to the last man in most battles, all dying instead of fleeing.

can pretty much confirm this, from my game (at the moment vanilla-build for testing)

[PalaiologosTheGreat]

How bad is putting a priority on tech in this mod?

[o Barão]

1 hour ago, PalaiologosTheGreat said:

How bad is putting a priority on tech in this mod?

It is easier. The penalty is softer in comparison.

[o Barão]

BETA v3.1.1 N.A.R. changelog:

• Updated to UAD 1.4.0.8 Opt x3

[Astor]

So what can we expect from the early DD rework? Will you use the Torpedo Boat Destroyer Hulls as early Destroyers? I think currently only Austria has those.

I hope to get some variation in towers, as they are all the same mostly (smae for funnels except Germany/Austria.

Edited December 2, 2023 by Astor

[o Barão]

27 minutes ago, Astor said:

So what can we expect from the early DD rework? Will you use the Torpedo Boat Destroyer Hulls as early Destroyers? I think currently only Austria has those.

I hope to get some variation in towers, as they are all the same mostly (smae for funnels except Germany/Austria.

No, but I will use the TB towers for the DD 1 hulls since those are what better represent the design from the time period. I have a few ideas, before Christmas should be ready.

[Hasty R]

21 minutes ago, Hasty R said:

Having just played two large battles now with the latest optimization (and for full transparency, I am using the fantastic NAR mod), I just want to say that you guys nailed the new aggressive AI!!! Well done!

The AI CL's dove right in and put up a torpedo screen on my BB's. The AI CA's and BB's brought down range until it was an absolute slugfest at 3-4 km range. Fantastic stuff. Tougher battles now versus a much more aggressive AI. Nicely done and it makes the battles much more enjoyable!!

Also, another plug for the idea to allow an option to switch off AI fuel effects (i.e. unlimited AI fuel) which would also add a nice challenge to battles, as yet again there were AI ships in Low Fuel state.

I just wanted to say that I haven't stop using NAR since I first tried it and it is a fantastic mod! The latest changes to the AI are so much better now and I don't know how much that is the developers or you guys. Either way, thank you!!!

[Hasty R]

Is there any way you can influence AI designs regarding deck armor? I noticed in my early battles 1890-1910 that the AI is putting on mediocre belt armor but loading up the decks with 2-3 or more inches. During a time when none of our guns are useful beyond 5-7 km range. It gives me an unfair advantage when I'm putting on less than an inch of deck armor but my belts are nice and thick compared to the AI. Maybe historical caps where the AI won't put more than 1 inch before 1900 and then gradually escalate the thickness as gun ranges improve?

[o Barão]

1 hour ago, Hasty R said:

Is there any way you can influence AI designs regarding deck armor? I noticed in my early battles 1890-1910 that the AI is putting on mediocre belt armor but loading up the decks with 2-3 or more inches. During a time when none of our guns are useful beyond 5-7 km range. It gives me an unfair advantage when I'm putting on less than an inch of deck armor but my belts are nice and thick compared to the AI. Maybe historical caps where the AI won't put more than 1 inch before 1900 and then gradually escalate the thickness as gun ranges improve?

Sadly no. I already ask the devs about this and didn't get any answer.

[diceman624]

Not sure if this is a bug or not, but I've noticed the AI has a tendency to use HE in the heart of AP envelopes.  Is that a vanilla game issue, or can the mod address that?

[o Barão]

1 hour ago, diceman624 said:

Not sure if this is a bug or not, but I've noticed the AI has a tendency to use HE in the heart of AP envelopes.  Is that a vanilla game issue, or can the mod address that?

You will need to explain in more details for me to understand. 

 

The AI logic in NAR was changed to use HE in battle more often. It is about that you are talking about?

[PalaiologosTheGreat]

Could you add scaled-down battlecruiser hulls to the CA hulls from 1910-1920? There's no use for armoured cruisers in that period and you would just make the smallest BC hull and fit some small guns to make a bunch of cheap, fast, BCs that approximate what CAs do.

 

I know that IRL CAs weren't built after 1910 or so, but in Rule the Waves 3, I usually have a lighter contingent of CAs that have speeds that can accompany BCs but have less tonnage than BCs. I can't do that in this game as all CAs have a max hull form of 23 knots or so, which is less than a BC of 29 knots.

Edited December 3, 2023 by PalaiologosTheGreat

[o Barão]

9 hours ago, PalaiologosTheGreat said:

Could you add scaled-down battlecruiser hulls to the CA hulls from 1910-1920? There's no use for armoured cruisers in that period and you would just make the smallest BC hull and fit some small guns to make a bunch of cheap, fast, BCs that approximate what CAs do.

 

I know that IRL CAs weren't built after 1910 or so, but in Rule the Waves 3, I usually have a lighter contingent of CAs that have speeds that can accompany BCs but have less tonnage than BCs. I can't do that in this game as all CAs have a max hull form of 23 knots or so, which is less than a BC of 29 knots.

You are asking too much, I am exhausted with the mod already. Unless the devs launch another major update, which can happen because of Christmas, I guess. My only plans are to make the destroyers 1-4 rework, other little changes and I am done.

 

I am also interesting to see how the subs are playing with the recent changes. If they are powerful or weak. So anyone, playing late campaigns, please share your feedback about this. I prefer screenshots.

 

After that, all modders are free to use my work, and do whatever they like.

[diceman624]

22 hours ago, o Barão said:

The AI logic in NAR was changed to use HE in battle more often. It is about that you are talking about?

This is exactly what I'm talking about.  I tend to let my ships auto-select ammunition, but there are a lot of cases where they stay on HE when their AP penetration values would defeat the opposition's armor.

Is there a reason you chose this?

[o Barão]

2 hours ago, diceman624 said:

This is exactly what I'm talking about.  I tend to let my ships auto-select ammunition, but there are a lot of cases where they stay on HE when their AP penetration values would defeat the opposition's armor.

Is there a reason you chose this?

Yes. The vanilla AI have a tendency to use AP a lot, even if it is using against a heavily armored ship, angled. So I changed the parameters.  I don't think the AI takes into consideration the bursting charge available on the ship. If it was pricic acid, as an example, using only HE would be the best option 90% of the time. The parameters can be edited in the "params" file for anyone interested.

[o Barão]

On 12/1/2023 at 6:22 PM, CenturionsofRome said:

Honestly, I prefer that to constant stern chases. 

You and everybody I guess.

[o Barão]

BETA v3.1.2 N.A.R. changelog:

• Sub nerf compilation.*

*Test, observe and share your feedback about the changes.

 

Global parameters nerfs:

Sub denial zone. 150km to 20km.

Submarine stealth power. 8.68 to 7

Submarine stealth hull strength power. 3 to 1

Submarine combat attack power. 7.5 to 7

Submarine combat stealth power. 1.85 to 1.5

Submarine combat speed power. 0.55 to 0.2

Submarine combat hull strength power 1.25 to 1

Detection vs submarines ASW. 4.75 to 8.

 

Also:

Submarine hull integrity values heavily nerfed.*

*I hope to get a situation where I don't see submarines with light, medium or heavy damage. Simple, sunk or not. Well I hope.

 

[Lima]

Is it possible to improve the combat effectiveness of submarines specifically against unescorted transports?

IMO result of such battles in most cases should be a complete massacre of transports, at the moment you can see a large variation in the results.

[PalaiologosTheGreat]

6 hours ago, o Barão said:

You are asking too much, I am exhausted with the mod already. Unless the devs launch another major update, which can happen because of Christmas, I guess. My only plans are to make the destroyers 1-4 rework, other little changes and I am done.

Thank you so much for doing this mod then! It really brings flavour to this game

 

I’ll be updating the mod and getting some data for you 

[o Barão]

1 hour ago, Lima said:

Is it possible to improve the combat effectiveness of submarines specifically against unescorted transports?

IMO result of such battles in most cases should be a complete massacre of transports, at the moment you can see a large variation in the results.

No. I don't see any parameters related to transports values in simulated combat. There are the global values, but in NAR I already changed those to focus more on firepower, less on speed, crew quality and ammo count.

 

Didn't we had a simple report message telling us how many transports were sunk in each region when the at the beginning of each turn? I don't understand why that was replaced by the current method. It was simple and easy to understand. Now we are looking at simulated battles without understanding why some results are possible.