"Naval Arms Race" mod overhaul. BETA v11.2 - for UAD v1.5.1.3

[Fangoriously]

13 hours ago, o Barão said:

"cressy_hull_tall" without "var(middle_gun_b)"

Oh interesting. The hulls are a bit more like Legos than I thought. Every possible configuration of asset must not be 'published' yet then.

 

*edit

Russian mk2 4in single uses the model you used for mk3.

Edited June 24, 2023 by Fangoriously

[AyakawaSakura]

Seeing some tech which looks like recursive tech which is giving crazy value and breaking the ability to use torpedo...

 

EDIT: it looks like my some other plugin is causing the problem. Can confirm is OK now.

Edited June 24, 2023 by AyakawaSakura
update

[Fangoriously]

Hey so I was playing with some Russian ship, checking out the model tweaks when I took a look at these high mk Russian secondary turrets and I was reminded of something I looked at the other day from that link you posted http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNUS_8-55_mk9.php

http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNUS_8-55_mk9_Pensacola_pic.jpg

they have the boxyness at least of these late 20s American 8in designs, might make good mk4 cruiser main guns 8-9in? looks like currently its iowa guns for mk4 and 5.  Maybe mk4 capital ship 7,8in as well, mk5 being iowa turrets, like on the cruisers. American mk5, same turret design 6-20in lol

The other Russian turret model looks good for mk4 6,7in cruiser guns too

 

still think these turrets would look best for mk2, 10-12in capital ship guns, mk2 10-11 cruiser guns, and mk3 6-11in cruiser guns. especially after looking at more pictures from that website. mk4 cruiser 10-11in Texas turret.

 

 

oh and saw another bug 

American mk3 capital ship and cruiser 6in triple turret is single barrel.

American mk5 capital ship 8in guns are all single barrel. and thought this models were a low mk design?

hmm, the more i look through the more I'm seeing inconsistency and possibly error. mk2 7,8,9in cruiser turret models are being used as mk4,5 capital ship 7,8in. Those turrets in the pic just above are being used as mk2 7,8in capital ship turrets, looks like they all got partaly switched.

 

[o Barão]

23 hours ago, Fangoriously said:

Russian mk2 4in single uses the model you used for mk3.

 

8 hours ago, Fangoriously said:

American mk3 capital ship and cruiser 6in triple turret is single barrel.

American mk5 capital ship 8in guns are all single barrel. and thought this models were a low mk design?

All fixed, Thanks!!👍

 

8 hours ago, Fangoriously said:

hmm, the more i look through the more I'm seeing inconsistency and possibly error. mk2 7,8,9in cruiser turret models are being used as mk4,5 capital ship 7,8in. Those turrets in the pic just above are being used as mk2 7,8in capital ship turrets, looks like they all got partaly switched.

Yes, correct, that is intentional.

 

8 hours ago, Fangoriously said:

Hey so I was playing with some Russian ship, checking out the model tweaks when I took a look at these high mk Russian secondary turrets and I was reminded of something I looked at the other day from that link you posted http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNUS_8-55_mk9.php

http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNUS_8-55_mk9_Pensacola_pic.jpg

they have the boxyness at least of these late 20s American 8in designs, might make good mk4 cruiser main guns 8-9in? looks like currently its iowa guns for mk4 and 5.  Maybe mk4 capital ship 7,8in as well, mk5 being iowa turrets, like on the cruisers. American mk5, same turret design 6-20in lol

The other Russian turret model looks good for mk4 6,7in cruiser guns too

That is a good suggestion!! I will try that.

 

And I will add that, I still not 100% happy with the Russian guns. So expect some changes.

[CenturionsofRome]

Can you do something about gun recoil? currently it makes ships with large numbers of guns impossible due to the accuracy malus as even three twin 12in guns firing result in 150% malus, which completely guts accuracy. Which means that if you want guns large enough to pierce armor you can only have one-two turrets if you want anywhere decent accuracy, and you don't get quads until late game.

[o Barão]

1 hour ago, CenturionsofRome said:

Can you do something about gun recoil? currently it makes ships with large numbers of guns impossible due to the accuracy malus as even three twin 12in guns firing result in 150% malus, which completely guts accuracy. Which means that if you want guns large enough to pierce armor you can only have one-two turrets if you want anywhere decent accuracy, and you don't get quads until late game.

I don't have those results in my tests. The worst was 123% with 3x4 20" guns. 3x2 12" was only around 10%-20%. And of course only for a few seconds.

[CenturionsofRome]

1 minute ago, o Barão said:

I don't have those results in my tests. The worst was 123% with 3x4 20" guns. 3x2 12" was only around 10%-20%. And of course only for a few seconds.

I'm getting this in campaign, circa 1900-1920 designs. My sub 30k ton ships cannot mount anything heavier than 12-13in if I want to hit anything.

[o Barão]

43 minutes ago, CenturionsofRome said:

I'm getting this in campaign, circa 1900-1920 designs. My sub 30k ton ships cannot mount anything heavier than 12-13in if I want to hit anything.

I run more tests. This time a 16k tons BB armed with 3x2 12" inch guns. And now I got different results. The worse was around 100%, but normal was around 45% or less, and of course only for a few seconds. The moment the guns were ready for the next salvo, the gun recoil was already below 10%. I don't have any issues with this mechanic. It is realistic and will affect both you and the AI.

[Fangoriously]

10 hours ago, o Barão said:

Yes, correct, that is intentional.

 

That is a good suggestion!! I will try that.

 

And I will add that, I still not 100% happy with the Russian guns. So expect some changes.

I like those round and low looking mk2 cruiser main guns too, but they should probably just be ether low tier or high tier guns, not both.

Glad you like my idea with those Russian turrets! they would make fine capital ship secondary 7/8in too, more heavy duty looking than the 5/38 turret. In the 30s I recall hearing that Stalin was trying to buy a standard battleship or 2 or have capital ships designed and built by the US for russia, so in game where there is a fully fleshed out russian navy, some turret design overlap at high mk wouldn't be historically inaccurate.

[o Barão]

1 hour ago, Fangoriously said:

 

Glad you like my idea with those Russian turrets!

I tried those, but I didn't like it. Then I remember about the Italian Trento guns. Close barrels, similar in the looks, but I also didn't like the fact I am using Italian guns for that. In the end, no change to those American guns.

 

Anyway, I finish the Russian guns.

I added:

http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNRussian_10-50_m1908.php

http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNRussian_8-50_m1905.php

 

http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNRussian_51-50_m1936.php

The version used is the single barrel for the 3",4" and 5". Mainly in CL, DDs, and TB.

And I also changed some mk3 secondaries to use the late design.

 

The Spanish guns are ready.

I also changed the Spanish Battleship I hull for another one that looks more with the "Battleship Pelayo". Not perfect, but better.

 

I also changed the Russian Battleship I hull for a traditional one that resembles more what the Russians were building around 1890.

And I am now in the process of adding the Russian "Poltava Battleship". This is taking me a while.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petropavlovsk-class_battleship#/media/File:PoltavaPostcard1.jpg

 

And for the Italians light cruisers, I added the: http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNIT_6-53_m1926.php

 

There were other improvements to small guns. To force using single barrels non-shielded turrets. Smaller guns to better fit in some places.

Edited June 25, 2023 by o Barão

[o Barão]

0.9.3 N.A.R. changelog:

Guns Rework Special Edition (part VI)

• Spanish guns are ready. All nations are ready.
• Improvements added to Russian, Italian and other small caliber guns
• Replaced the Spanish "BB I" for another hull that resembles more the "Pelayo battleship".
• Replaced the Russian BB I hull for one that resembles more what the Russians were building around 1890. "Navarin"; "Tri Sviatitelia"; "Sissoi Veliky"
• Added Russian pre-dreadnought "Poltava-class battleship"
• Added Russian pre-dreadnought "Peresvet-class battleship"
• Reworked the Russian's pre-dreadnought order to unlock the hulls to be more close to historical accurate. Hull stats reworked.

 

Due to the many changes to parts and guns, I highly recommend deleting both custom and campaign save files.

The gun's rework special edition is finished, and I am exhausted. I will take a break from modding. No more wipes needed. Have fun.

 

I will only update to fix bugs, maybe change some guns, or to keep the mod updated to UAD.

[Deadpan_Alpaca]

I am afraid, new gun models for Russia sort of broke turret cruiser again.

This gun placement always have been a bit problematic, to be fair... But earlier I have managed to go around by increasing the beam - which solved the problem. This time it doesn't work - nothing changes in 10% increase.

Edited June 25, 2023 by Deadpan_Alpaca

[o Barão]

45 minutes ago, Deadpan_Alpaca said:

I am afraid, new gun models for Russia sort of broke turret cruiser again.

This gun placement always have been a bit problematic, to be fair... But earlier I have managed to go around by increasing the beam - which solved the problem. This time it doesn't work - nothing changes in 10% increase.

I increased the hull size to support that gun, however the length of that hull is comical unrealistic for the time period, so I removed some sections.

Hotfix:

• Funnels missing from Russian "BB I"
• Russian gunboat size increased to support the 8" guns. Sections removed.
• Fixed the Advanced Destroyer (large and compact) huge size. "spain, china, russia"

 

Edited June 25, 2023 by o Barão

[Deadpan_Alpaca]

Thanks for the fix. Though, if you thought, that the section change would prevent absurd designs from emerging, you would want to think again:

P.S. This is not an invitation for further nerf, just a joke.

Edited June 25, 2023 by Deadpan_Alpaca

[o Barão]

5 minutes ago, Deadpan_Alpaca said:

P.S. This is not an invitation for further nerf, just a joke.

[Deadpan_Alpaca]

Another question: not sure it is intentional but I could swear, 3-inch and 4-inch MK3 Russian guns have literally the same size and model.

I put them together for the comparison - 3-inch is the front one (or right, depends on the perspective).
--
While it is logical to have some sort of extending firing crew protection, at this point in UAD I sort of got used to having "auxiliary" 3-inch for DDs which could be put on the sides of the ship due to how small the model more. Though, if the change was intentional and there is no mistake here - then fine.

[o Barão]

1 hour ago, Deadpan_Alpaca said:

Another question: not sure it is intentional but I could swear, 3-inch and 4-inch MK3 Russian guns have literally the same size and model.

They don't have the same size. But the difference is small. I will improve this.👍

[o Barão]

0.9.3 N.A.R. changelog:

Guns Rework Special Edition, final version(part VII)

• Updated American DDs guns.
• Updated Spanish mk4 and mk5 4"; 5" and 6" guns.
• Added quads to CL class. It was missing, fixed.
• Improved AI building program for these nations: german; france; russia; Italy; austria; usa and spain

 

[Deadpan_Alpaca]

22 hours ago, o Barão said:

They don't have the same size. But the difference is small. I will improve this.👍

Well, I decided to check it with the 3-inch secondaries - so IMHO there is some balance issue: where double gun mount is more compact than single - usually it works the opposite way in the game.

Not calling you to break your rest - take your time as much as you wish to. Just leaving some material for potential polishing in some indefinite future.

[Astor]

 New spanish Battleship 1 does not become obsolete.

[o Barão]

5 hours ago, Deadpan_Alpaca said:

Well, I decided to check it with the 3-inch secondaries - so IMHO there is some balance issue: where double gun mount is more compact than single - usually it works the opposite way in the game.

Both barrels have the same, similar barrel length. L/50 in this case. That is why these situations can happen when I mixed different gun models. This being said, here is very easy to fix. The double barrel gun, "hood" secondary gun model have a single barrel version.

 

1 hour ago, Astor said:

 New spanish Battleship 1 does not become obsolete.

Thanks!

[Fangoriously]

American mk2 capital ship 9in and capital ship mk4/5 7,8in guns are using that same flat model.

American mk2 capital ship 7,8in guns use the squished Texas gun model though, if that was used for 9in as well that would eliminate inconstancy.

cruisers are also using that mk4/5 flat capital ship 7,8in gun for their mk2 7-9in guns too, if they were using that squished Texas gun model as well, that would also eliminate inconstancy.

 

That squished texas gun also better resembles 10in and 12in guns of their time than the Texas gun, the 12"/45 Mark 5/6 on the last pre dreads and first dreads, and the 10"/40 Mark 3 on armored cruisers. These all had shorter looking barrels and almost no rear overhang like the squished in game model does.  A more historically accurate for both cruiser and capital ships main guns for mk2, and capital ship 7,8in secondary guns for mk2/3.

The newer 12"/50 Mark 7 on the Wyoming have a visibly longer rear overhand and longer barrels, pretty much spot on with the texas model, perfect for mk3 9in+ main guns.

Edited June 27, 2023 by Fangoriously

[SMS]

The British destroyer hull needs to be adjusted, the tower is too big for the hull

[Fangoriously]

Think i have feedback of ships firing revealing themselves

my gun rafts shooting their gun rafts, that TB was spotting for them but now we wouldn't be able to see each other if not for the muzzle flash.

the single barrel 5in gun model was perfect for fiting as many 5in on these protected cruisers as possible

these tiny towers have terrible night sighting, but they were finally actually spotted after i got that close to them.

 

looks like it works?

Edited June 27, 2023 by Fangoriously

[o Barão]

9 hours ago, Fangoriously said:

American mk2 capital ship 9in and capital ship mk4/5 7,8in guns are using that same flat model.

American mk2 capital ship 7,8in guns use the squished Texas gun model though, if that was used for 9in as well that would eliminate inconstancy.

cruisers are also using that mk4/5 flat capital ship 7,8in gun for their mk2 7-9in guns too, if they were using that squished Texas gun model as well, that would also eliminate inconstancy.

Ok I will do.

9 hours ago, Fangoriously said:

That squished texas gun also better resembles 10in and 12in guns of their time than the Texas gun, the 12"/45 Mark 5/6 on the last pre dreads and first dreads, and the 10"/40 Mark 3 on armored cruisers.

And also this:

http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNUS_12-40_mk3.php

Which give me the idea to use them also as BB guns Mk2 variants to better represent the historical progression about the American's gun development. 7" - 13".

 

Also, I need to switch the Spanish capital guns. Mk2-3 for the Mk4-5.  The current Mk4-5 in N.A.R is the real gun model used in the "España-class"

This being said, there was an update today by the devs and I don't know when I will have the time to update the mod.

2 hours ago, Fangoriously said:

looks like it works?

I hope so! 👍

 

9 hours ago, SMS said:

The British destroyer hull needs to be adjusted, the tower is too big for the hull

What hull? What tower?