>>> v1.06-1.08+ Feedback<<<(17/8/2022)

[CAR DOOR]

Small caliber main batteries (9.9" and smaller) on cruisers are still having issues firing consistently when secondaries are also firing on a target.

The main guns of the affected caliber dramatically lose out on fire rate while the ship also has secondaries weapons actively firing on something, making them significantly less effective than expected at shorter ranges. This can be reproduced easily by building any cruiser - light or heavy - arm it with 9" or lower guns as well as secondaries guns. When a ship is in range for both and firing both, main guns fire dramatically less often while secondaries behave normally. turn off secondaries and main gun fire rate returns to normal. guns of 10" and higher behave as they should even with secondaries firing.

here is an example. its from the 1.06 Beta but this issue has not changed in the newest version. most notable at 0:25

 

 

[Norbert Sattler]

Looks like the crew training does indeed now work as intended.

I also didn't get any impossible deck penetrations (40 mm guns hitting the deck from 1 km away and penetrating 250+ mm or armour and such).

[itolan1752]

May I ask some question about how armor work?

1. does inner armor are only behind the "main" belt/deck? The game is say yes,but I want to sure.
    
2. where are fore/alt armor? anywhere which out of the citadel?
    
3. as the picture, my question is which is better to protect the ship from penetration damage.
   make main armor as thick as possible? or average for inner armor to get thicker armor?
   in the picture,the total belt armor is 5.5"+2.8"+2.2"+1.8"=12.3". but if I try to maximum the main belt, it can only put 10.8" or it will be overweight.

Edited July 16, 2022 by itolan1752
fix some grammar

[Norbert Sattler]

6 hours ago, The PC Collector said:

Found another bug on the AH campaign: The tech "1100 tons Destroyer" which was supposed to unlock the Destroyer II hull, unlocks nothing. Which is annoying because I'm stuck with a garbage 794 tons destroyer since forever.

I can confirm this. I too just researched that tech and can still only build the "Large Torpedo Boat" 750k, even though it says that Destroyer 2 is unlocked in the tooltip of Destroyer Design.

[Nick Thomadis]

25 minutes ago, Norbert Sattler said:

I can confirm this. I too just researched that tech and can still only build the "Large Torpedo Boat" 750k, even though it says that Destroyer 2 is unlocked in the tooltip of Destroyer Design.

There are technologies which are not yet filled up. Austria just does not have this destroyer type, available to other nations with the same tech.

[Logion567]

Is there a reason that Gas Turbine engines don't give funnel capacity like Diesel does? feels a bit odd that i need 1-2 extra funnels when making that switch.

[Candle_86]

Nope your still forcing 3x speed on us, when are you fixing this bug, would it help if i report it everytime your AI decides it must go in point blank range. I mean if it helps your team I'm happy to start reporting it every time it occurs

[ZorinW]

4 hours ago, Norbert Sattler said:

I can confirm this. I too just researched that tech and can still only build the "Large Torpedo Boat" 750k, even though it says that Destroyer 2 is unlocked in the tooltip of Destroyer Design.

You can have the weird German destroyer hulls that have absolutely no counterpart in reality if that helps 🤣

[mikekervin]

I am consistently having issue where BBs alternate firing a single turret and a full salvo. This is even when they have target lock, 100% chance to hit, sailing in a straight line, cruising speed, enemy exactly at 90 degrees and not maneuvering, maximum stability hull, and veteran crews.

Both for gameplay and also giving more accurate feedback it would be helpful if there was some kind of status indicator on the guns. ie firing / moving / unstable. 

Edited July 17, 2022 by mikekervin

[mikekervin]

Power projection and relationship effects are not counting correctly in Eastern Mediterranean. This causes Austria-Hungary for example, to be blockaded even when it has superior tonnage.

[mikekervin]

It's odd that we are forced to fight the "meeting" encounters before having access to the main campaign screen. It takes away from the strategic impact of the battles when we can't see things like the number of ships the enemy has before and after.

[mikekervin]

One positive - ship logic for avoiding torpedoes is much improved. So it appears that the default behaviour now is to balance between remaining in formation and avoiding threats where possible, whereas the "avoid torpedos" order will do everything possible to avoid damage at the cost of losing unit cohesion. I think this is a good approach.

[Dave P.]

Since when does the AI get to put barbettes wherever they want and we don't? Or did I miss a patch note?

[The PC Collector]

The bug which counts sunk ships as still active, therefore preventing designs from being deleted, needs to be fixed ASAP. I don't know enough english to put in words how terribly non functional that makes the design tab in late games.

Edited July 17, 2022 by The PC Collector

[mikekervin]

When a nation I am at war with accepts peace, the pending battles against another coutnry I remain at war with are cancelled.

Edited July 17, 2022 by mikekervin

[mikekervin]

When the lead ship takes heavy damage and drops to the back of the division it usually does so by turning toward the enemy. This is suicidal behaviour especially at medium and close ranges, it should turn away or simply reduce speed.

[mikekervin]

When a ship is damaged in battle it heads back to the last port it left from, but if the port is too small for it's tonnage it appears not able to repair it and it is not possible to send to another port for repairs. Instead it should return to the closest port that can handle it or we should at least be able to tow it somewhere else.

Edited July 17, 2022 by mikekervin

[The PC Collector]

Is a bad thing I don't want to sink a french dreadnought just to see if I can keep it during the peace negotiations? XD

Also, I've found a bug (which likely is why battles are forced before you can do anything): If a ship which is scheduled for battle is marked to refit, the refit is finished instantly, instead of being started next time the ship goes to port.

Edited July 17, 2022 by The PC Collector

[Drenzul]

Seems to be a bug with AI torp ranges.

Twice I managed to get hit with torps despite been very careful to keep all enemy ships over 15km from my BBs.
Range listed on their torps was 15km and my BBs were moving away from them. 2nd time the enemy CA fired torps from over 15km that hit and they were using electric torps with a 10km range. 

I can't see any possible way they were in range. I had a cruiser screen 10km in front of my BBs, sure nothing got within 5km of it before getting sunk.

Also had the reverse situation with the 8.9" guns on my BB. They had a listed range of around 25km, but only ever seem to start firing at 22ish Km. Looks like the range shown in-game (circles and text) is as if its a 7.9" gun, but when deciding if to fire or not, its treating it like its a 7"

Overall good improvements to campaign mode but the issues with the ship builder are still really annoying.
I mean it just needs a sanity check really. Torp oxy generator should be based on how many torps it needs to fill per minute (aka torp fire rate), the whole aux engine is a daft concept, it doesn't work like that IRL. Warships had a backup generator for emergencies but wouldn't be used at all when the ship is just running at cruise speed as you could generate more electric than you could handle from the space power on the main engines. 

Also engines not funnels should generate smoke interference. More funnels over minimum should reduce smoke interference.

[UncleAi]

It is disgusting that I have to spend 10-15 minutes to the "smoke on West" "smoke on Northwest" "smoke on Southwest". It has been such a long-existing request and you still won't make 10x and 30x always available. If AI fleet is retreating and my fleet is faster, start the battle at my main gun range.

My modern DN can only spot enemy DD at 5.6km. Meanwhile many parts like radar and radio has ridiculous weight. If you want some "balance", you should balance by cost and tech, not a "25% tower weight". 

[Norbert Sattler]

The "range" of torpedoes is not the maximum travel distance, but the distance at which the ships are able to launch them. In a much earlier patch I observed that a torpedo will travel for round-amout 3 times it's "range" once it's in the water, provided it doesn't hit anything or prematurely detonates of course.
Mind you I have not really looked at this again since, so the factor how far they can travel might well have changed in the torpedo rework, but it would fit what you discribe.

So by your discription I'd say your cruisers were the actual targets of the torpedoes, since they were close enough for the AI to launch at them and then the torps just kept going.

Edited July 17, 2022 by Norbert Sattler

[o Barão]

25 minutes ago, Norbert Sattler said:

The "range" of torpedoes is not the maximum travel distance, but the distance at which the ships are able to launch them. In a much earlier patch I observed that a torpedo will travel for round-amout 3 times it's "range" once it's in the water, provided it doesn't hit anything or prematurely detonates of course.
Mind you I have not really looked at this again since, so the factor how far they can travel might well have changed in the torpedo rework, but it would fit what you discribe.

So by your discription I'd say your cruisers were the actual targets of the torpedoes, since they were close enough for the AI to launch at them and then the torps just kept going.

Is around x2 times for most of them. Some less.

[The PC Collector]

Okay, after finally having been able to play a campaing long enough to start considering the game enjoyable, I'm going to give some feedback. For context, the set up of the campaign is as it follows:

Austria-Hungary
Hard difficulty
Historic AI
Design own fleet
1890 start
Current date: 1912 (campaign still ongoing). Started with 1.08 and played through 1.08.1 and 1.08.2 (no save rest warning was given, so I assumed I could continue it. If any of the issues I describe might be caused by it being a 1.08 save, I'm sorry in advance)

Let's start with the situation of the countries:

- UK: Turbo collapsed by late 1893. I have yet so see a game in which UK lasts most than three years.

- Germany: Entered on a rampant crysis by the same era on which UK collapsed, and never recovered from it. As a result, it has been lagging behind with very small and extremely obsolete ships, thus being not relevant and de facto leaving the campaign on only 3 countries. Currently still around, but on its last legs.

- France: It has been my main rival, as I allied Italy early on the game. Despite having had their asses kicked by me regularly, their economy is bomb proof and they always come back. Up to a certain degree, tho. While they have decent modern designs, specially a dreadnought with a top speed of 20.6 kn, as many as 18x315 mm guns on twin turrets very rationally placed and a capable secondary battery, their reliance on pre-dreadnought era designs makes their fleets little more than practice shooting for my ships. Not as much for the tech, but because of the fact that their ships have so little displacement (an average of 3000-4000 t by 1912) and consequently so little structure points that ships slower than DDs (which, by the way, are the other good design they have) don't live long enough to be a real threat or cause any significant damage to my ships, thus leaving their excellent dreadnoughts defenceless.

- Italy: Untested, due to having been my allies almost from the start. They have the best economy and over 400 ships. Fortunately, due to fortunate events managed to make them like me less than france, and after the last war the relations changed enough to the point where I might be able to declare war on them. Good since that is the only challenge I have left on this campaign.

Conclusions about economy and relations with AI nations: While Hard mode alleviates the turbo collapsing nations up to a certain degree, it is still a problem which hinders the campaign. An easy fix for that could be making collapsed nations to become neutral during a set amount of time (for example 5 years, to simulate a revolution or civul war or wathever) and then come back, instead of becoming permanently defeated. About the relations, until the relations system is fully fledged, there should be a way to manually break an alliance, instead of having to rely on lucky events. An "I hate you because reasons" button which instantly lowered relations enough to the point where tension starts working again.

Now, let's go with shipbuilding.

- AI shipbuilding: Seems to have improved a lot since the Steam release. Other than questionable choices in gun callibers, I haven't seen odd/disfunctional designs. In fact I have successfuly used some french captured ships with success, and some of the designs I have seen on their side look really good. However their reliance on obsolete designs makes them non competitive on the long run. (Tip: the ood callibers can be made more bearable visually speaking by seeting the measurement to "cm" if you want metric callibers)

- Refits: Here i have found two issues:

Captured ships can't be retrofitted (or if they can, I haven't found the way). This is a bug, is intentional, or it is simply a feature not yed added? I ask because not being able to refit captured ships significantly devaluates them as war reparations.

After obtaining the option of mount 4 centerline guns with 2 barbettes I decided to rebuild my early dreadnoughts, which due to tech restrictions had a lot of questionable design decissions, like real ones (I like that on the early dreadnoughts you have to play around those limitations, by the way) into more a efficient design, the classic AB-XY superfiring design, but I had only moderate success. When trying to do so, I have been getting a message which said "Too far from original place" and I struggled, or in some of the designs, I weren't even able to place the turret. So my question: What the hell is that? It is a bug? Is intentional?

Conclusions about shipbuilding: Other than some issues, I think that shipbuilding is going in the right direction. And althought the game seems to favour certain calibers, I have been using "non meta" calibers with great sucess. Still, I think that accuracies depending on the calliber needs to be tweaked: Passing from 203 to 210 mm (my standard CA caliber for germanic ships since the feature was introduced, as for metric seems more fitting than 203 mm) nearly doubles the base accuracy of the gun.

As for the AI building obsolete ships, I think that it could be, at least temporarily, by coding rules to how frequently and how the AI build ships. As, in they have to renew their designs each 4 years (for example). While doing so they can only use the newest hull available for each class, with maxed displacement. And they can only build the newest desing they have of each class.

Tech progression: I'm getting some techs a bit ahead of time, and other behind of time, but nothing as exxagerate as on my previous campaign. However, something fun: I got my dreadnoughts by 1903 (I pretty much suspect that is due to A-H not having any other hull between the base hull and the dreadnought hulls, as I have noticed that the research speed is not the same for a given tech in different countries) and by 1912 I have auxiiary diesel engines, yet I'm still stuck with coal-only boilers.

Miscellaneous feedback

- Avoid torpedoes still needs works. In my experience more often than not glitches the formations, making ships becoming stuck and things like that.

- Please add an option so the "avoid collision" is disabled by default. With the current "doom stack" meta (which I fortunately haven't suffered as my standard task force fortunatley counters them very well) having to disable it manually from every single division every single battle is afwul.

- Crew training and the AI pool blackhole seems to be finally solved. Good job on solving this critical bug.

- Please add permanent taskforces or some sort of advanced fleet organisation ASAP, or at the very least the option to assing ships to a permanent port to come back. Currently I spend most of my time on the game organising my task forces and the ships I have assigned for coastal defence, and it makes the game very tedious as soon as you have a moderately big fleet.

- A way to sell ships to/buy ships from other countries would be very interesting. I recently scrapped a lot of pre dreadnought ships that I'm sure that Germany would have gladly took...

- In this campaing, Germany has fallen so back, that everyone else is very advanced. Thus making the indication useless. As each tech has an associated year, it would become much more useful if, instead of the current system you showed the average year of the techs each country has.

- I still don't understand why I can't build directly the retrofitted version of a ship. Having to either build the ship and then retrofit it, or to create a new class which is essentially the old one but retrofitted is simply stupid and inefficient.

- We need more roles for ships/task forces as soon as possible. At the very least, we need "convoy raiding", "convoy escort" and "port defence". That would allow for either creating especific ships for those tasks, or to reuse old ships for it (converting old battleships and frigates into coastal defence ships was common in the 1890s and 1900s)

- Armoured cruiser hulls still don't allow for main calliber casemate guns, despite those being common until the 1920s. Thst could be solved by organising the guns in "turreted guns" and "casemate guns" and then under each having main guns and secondaries, instead of the current system.

- Most pre-dreadnough battleships relied on heavy secondaries (160 to 200 mm), yet most pre dreadnought hulls don't allow secondaries over 149mm (127/5" with maxed calliber)

Minor bugs found

- Captured ships display their original ship faction instead of the flag of the faction they serve now.

Major bugs found

- Signing peace still fails like half of times. Often you simply get the "war continues" message despite agreeing to sign peace.

- War reparations still work erratically. As in the sense as you usually don't get all you asked for. While I agree that can be reallistic, there should be some negotiation, instead of the AI outright giving you whatever they want.

- Sunk ships count as still active, thus preventing designs to be deleted. This make the design tab cluttered and barely usable on long campaigns, and better not talk about the "designs" section on the ship builder. I suspect this bug might be related to the one which made AI crew to be permanently empty as they lost ships.

This is all the feedback I can think of based on my current campaign. Sorry for the text wall, and I hope it can be useful for the devs and anyone which reads it. As a final thought, I'll lke to point out that shis the first time I'm genuinely enjoying this game, and that I like where it is going. Keep the good work.

Edited July 17, 2022 by The PC Collector
Added more things I forgot

[Norbert Sattler]

I think the current peace deals are just too bare-bones to stay like that, so I have some suggestions.

1. First of all when both parties agree to peace negotiations, this should ALWAYS lead the peace-deal screen. None of that "War continues between X and Y" PC Collector just mentioned.
2. Peace deals can fail, but only after the peace-deal screen, depending on what the victor demands, rather than some random factor. Only if the two parties can't get a consensus, then the war continues.
3. The total height of reparations should be changeable. The currently calculated value should only be a base-line or recommendation and the player should be able to decide to ask for more or for less than that, changing how likely the AI will be to accept the proposal.
4. It should not necessarily be a single stage. You should make initial demands and if the AI is unwilling to pay that much, there should be at least one more stage where you can alter your demands.
5. If something is agreed upon in the peace deal it WILL be handed over. No more demanding provinces only for the AI to then not hand them over, but the peace still stands. If the AI is unwilling to hand over something, that's where points 2 and 4 come into play. Either they are willing to give the province in the peace deal, which will guarantee it's transfer, or they refuse, which will refuse the peace-deal entirely.

Edited July 17, 2022 by Norbert Sattler

[o Barão]

1 hour ago, The PC Collector said:

An easy fix for that could be making collapsed nations to become neutral during a set amount of time (for example 5 years, to simulate a revolution or civul war or wathever) and then come back, instead of becoming permanently defeated.
I agree 100%!

- AI shipbuilding: Seems to have improved a lot since the Steam release.

Yes! I am also seeing heavy armor in some AI designs. Maybe too much (deck values are insane)

When trying to do so, I have been getting a message which said "Too far from original place" and I struggled, or in some of the designs, I weren't even able to place the turret. So my question: What the hell is that? It is a bug? Is intentional?

It seems to be intentional. We are moving large critical rooms inside the hull (magazines, boilers), it should have a limit IMO. However, the player can use an exploit to overcome this gameplay feature. When you reach the limit before "Too far from original place" save the retrofit design. Now do another retrofit design above the recent retrofit design. And now you can move the turrets more to the side. Repeat the process until you get what you want.

 

Edited July 17, 2022 by o Barão