DD's are way to weak.

[ReefKip]

I tried playing the mission where you as 2 destroyers must take out a convoy escorted by 1 CL. Its impossible to complete. Focus on CL,your death.focus on transports and you get ripped apart by their self defence guns. Smoke has no influence whatssoever.

First i thought it was a LTP issue. But experimenting with different strats did not help. 

 

Torpedoboats hold out longer then DD,s this patch. Yes really.With the missions i have had with those against BB,s you could atleast get close and get your torps of with smart manouvering. DD'S cannot even get close to transport ships.

I tried several different DD builds. Full survival with triple bottom,max anti flood. You name it. Doesn,t prevent your DD from getting absolutely clapped by 2 inch transport guns.

[Aceituna]

I played the academy mission and also a lot of custom missions with similar scenario (DD or TB vs Convoy) and I usually give the convoy much stronger protection and I think that you being unsuccesfull is not caused by destroyers being week. Did you consider the possibility that you are doing something wrong? Didn't you get too close to the transports? Did you try to maneuver a bit to make their aiming more difficult?

[Bluishdoor76]

DDs by design are weak ships, for a mission like that torpedoes are your best bet. Set them to not fire until the ai has a secured hit and just keep the DD at range from the CL. Transports dont usually have the weaponry to kill a destroyer so thats a problem that comes down to you doing something wrong.

[bwc153]

I played that scenario and got it on my third try, after realizing that my DDs needed to be more cautious.

Make your DDs cheaper. You need more of them so the fire is spread out more.  On that scenario my 3 DDs had 3 5-inch guns, and 5 torpedo.  The torpedos were used against the CL, then leftovers against the transports. I kept far enough away from the transports so that their guns had difficulty hitting my destroyers, only getting in closer against isolated transports that didn't have guns, or when launching torpedos.

[ReefKip]

1 hour ago, Aceituna said:

I played the academy mission and also a lot of custom missions with similar scenario (DD or TB vs Convoy) and I usually give the convoy much stronger protection and I think that you being unsuccesfull is not caused by destroyers being week. Did you consider the possibility that you are doing something wrong? Didn't you get too close to the transports? Did you try to maneuver a bit to make their aiming more difficult?

Seeing that more people on this forum are complaining about DD's being too weak(and torpedo boats being too strong for what they are). And considering i tried different strats including using torps on distance it is not me doing something wrong. Nice that your anecdotal experience worked for you. Maybe you played the academy mission a few patches ago where the balance was different?

 

 

 

[ReefKip]

53 minutes ago, Bluishdoor76 said:

DDs by design are weak ships, for a mission like that torpedoes are your best bet. Set them to not fire until the ai has a secured hit and just keep the DD at range from the CL. Transports dont usually have the weaponry to kill a destroyer so thats a problem that comes down to you doing something wrong.

You don,t need to explain to me thay DD are weak ships. However when you get taken down by 2-3 inch guns from 5KM with a few hits thats a little to weak don't you think.? Firing torps beyond that range tend to miss. 

 

Considering its an alpha test phase i think they changed something about the durability which screwed it up. Played around with DD, s in last patch and they seemed more durable.

Edited October 12, 2020 by ReefKip

[Shaftoe]

1 hour ago, Bluishdoor76 said:

DDs by design are weak ships

This is simply not true. At all. 

It heavily depends on design. While something like a Clemson-class DD is no match for larger ships, something like a Fletcher or Somers DD can tear even a light cruiser apart, or even score a mission kill (rout) on much larger, better armed and armored heavy cruiser! That's exactly what happened during WW2, when a small flotilla of US DDs repelled (and heavily damaged) several much larger ships of IJN, in the Battle off Samar. 

Additionally, several DD engagements that occured in the Pacific during WW2 have proven that well-built DDs are fully capable of fighting and winning gunfights even in most difficult conditions, while staying seaworthy and capable of continued action.

And I believe that this is what UA:D should be striving towards. DDs in this game should be an effective class on its own, not just single-use torpedo carriers. 

Edited October 12, 2020 by Shaftoe

[madham82]

3 minutes ago, ReefKip said:

Seeing that more people on this forum are complaining about DD's being too weak(and torpedo boats being too strong for what they are). And considering i tried different strats including using torps on distance it is not me doing something wrong. Nice that your anecdotal experience worked for you. Maybe you played the academy mission a few patches ago where the balance was different?

 

 

 

The only people complaining about DDs being weak are ones expecting them to be something they are not. But your issue sounds more like implausible scenario design and the terribly limited method for firing torpedoes. My recipe for success on that one was to load up as many quad or quintuple torpedo mounts as possible. Choose Fast speed and go for the largest you can afford. You need at least two DDs to split the CAs fires.  Try to bracket the CA between your two DDs. You only need one good hit on his engines to make him a sitting duck for your next salvo. Also make sure you have max bulkheads. Should make your DDs much more durable. 

[ReefKip]

1 minute ago, madham82 said:

The only people complaining about DDs being weak are ones expecting them to be something they are not. But your issue sounds more like implausible scenario design and the terribly limited method for firing torpedoes. My recipe for success on that one was to load up as many quad or quintuple torpedo mounts as possible. Choose Fast speed and go for the largest you can afford. You need at least two DDs to split the CAs fires.  Try to bracket the CA between your two DDs. You only need one good hit on his engines to make him a sitting duck for your next salvo. Also make sure you have max bulkheads. Should make your DDs much more durable. 

Thanks for the proper advice. Will try it out.

 

[madham82]

9 minutes ago, Shaftoe said:

This is simply not true. At all. 

It heavily depends on design. While something like a Clemson-class DD is no match for larger ships, something like a Fletcher or Somers DD can tear even a light cruiser apart, or even score a mission kill (rout) a much better armed and armored heavy cruiser! That's exactly what happened during WW2, when a small flotilla of US DDs repelled (and heavily damaged) several much larger ships of IJN, in the Battle off Samar. 

Additionally, several DD engagements that occured in the Pacific during WW2 have proven that well-built DDs are fully capable of fighting and winning gunfights even in most difficult conditions, while staying seaworthy and capable of continued action.

And I believe that this is what UA:D should be striving towards. DDs in this game should be an effective class on its own, not just single-use torpedo carriers. 

Let's not forget the multitude of blunders by the Japanese at that battle which dramatically affected the outcome. How long did the Taffy 3 DD/DEs last once the Japanese stopped using AP against them? Thankfully the mauling was done at that point. 

Also don't forget the US ships had a major advantage in radar fire control and used the weather to their advantage. The Battle of Samar is a textbook lesson in the effects of fog of war on both sides. 

That said DDs are extremely versatile, present in greater numbers in any battle (numbers is a quality all its own right), and carry weapons that can be devastating to any ship if used correctly.  

Edited October 12, 2020 by madham82
edit

[Bluishdoor76]

5 minutes ago, Shaftoe said:

This is simply not true. At all. 

It heavily depends on design. While something like a Clemson-class DD is no match for larger ships, something like a Fletcher or Somers DD can tear even a light cruiser apart, or even score a mission kill (rout) a much better armed and armored heavy cruiser! That's exactly what happened during WW2, when a small flotilla of US DDs repelled (and heavily damaged) several much larger ships of IJN, in the Battle off Samar. 

Additionally, several DD engagements that occured in the Pacific during WW2 have proven that well-built DDs are fully capable of fighting and winning gunfights even in most difficult conditions, while staying seaworthy and capable of continued action.

And I believe that this is what UA:D should be striving towards. DDs in this game should be an effective class on its own, not just single-use torpedo carriers. 

The battle of Samar is very much a best case scenario, the flotilla barely survive. The only reason it wasnt completely obliterated was down to many factors, but none of them was down the destroyers themselves but the crews. for one the Japanese fleet thought they were fighting one of Halsey's main fleets and thus played the battle a lot more careful then they would if they knew they were fighting a small destroyer task force. I'm not saying destroyers arent useless, but they were among the weaker naval vessels of the early 20th century. Kurita could have continued the attack but decided to retreat due to the torpedoe attacs, the only attacks that did actual damage to the central force, and American fast battleships headed their way and Nishimura being defeated at Surigao Strait.

[Shaftoe]

9 minutes ago, Bluishdoor76 said:

The battle of Samar is very much a best case scenario, the flotilla barely survive. The only reason it wasnt completely obliterated was down to many factors, but none of them was down the destroyers themselves but the crews. for one the Japanese fleet thought they were fighting one of Halsey's main fleets and thus played the battle a lot more careful then they would if they knew they were fighting a small destroyer task force. I'm not saying destroyers arent useless, but they were among the weaker naval vessels of the early 20th century. Kurita could have continued the attack but decided to retreat due to the torpedoe attacs, the only attacks that did actual damage to the central force, and American fast battleships headed their way and Nishimura being defeated at Surigao Strait.

Without equipment to operate, i.e. destroyers, their engines, well-planned reinforced hulls, fire control systems and guns, the only thing those crews could do is row together towards shore.

You may know history, but in failing to understand and accept the value of good ship design, you're not only risking embarrassing yourself on the internet (which is a legit concern for some nerds, apparently), but also missing out a crucial perspective, which in turn leads to claims based on ignorance, such as the one you've made before.

Edited October 12, 2020 by Shaftoe

[TotalRampage]

To me DD's are the great equalizer. Just takes one torpedo to set off your whole magazine because you didn't invest in torpedo protection......... memories. 😥

[ReefKip]

2 minutes ago, TotalRampage said:

To me DD's are the great equalizer. Just takes one torpedo to set off your whole magazine because you didn't invest in torpedo protection......... memories. 😥

is this still possible in the game to do with torpedo,s? sounds pretty awesome.

[madham82]

25 minutes ago, ReefKip said:

is this still possible in the game to do with torpedo,s? sounds pretty awesome.

Definitely, I had a BC design shortly after torpedo magazine detonations were implement. A single hit sent her to the bottom. The ship had no torpedo protection. That said, have not seen any ship with adequate protection suffer similar fate, as is historical. 

[RUSS663]

A DD with 8 inch guns can do massive, fast damage.  Then a spread or 2 of torps followed by a fast and hopefully lucky escape.  A CL isn't much more than a DD with bigger main guns.