Remember to keep Arena Mode GL!

[SueMyChin]

In the open world, like it or not, players will be forced to do many things they would prefer not to do.

 

..the games that are successful are the ones that do this as little as possible.

I fail to see the resoning that "there are aspect of other games that I dislike but I'm forced to do, therefore this one should have similar undesirable aspects".

 

So, if grinding is gonna happen, would you rather grind NPC ships on the open sea or fight against other players in unpredictable matches that actually test your skill to some degree?

 

Having an arena mode for casual players or players who simply prefer arena battles and don't want down time between engagements has nothing at all to do with NPCs and grinding. I don't understand where you're coming form with this. I never once said anything about either getting rid of grinding or only engaging NPCs in open world.

I simply think for players who want larged pitched battles they will find open world boring. Rather than accommodating them into open world why not give them what they want.

There will also be players who don't like large pitch battles. Rather than forcing these players into them (the escort system?) allow them a free open world that doesn't encourage heavy PVP with short down time between engagements. It's not natural, historical (let's see how many people solely focus on the historical accuracy/realism argument and forget everything else I've said) or desirable for many players.

 

 

1. By linking the two types of games then Game Labs has an opportunity to drawl people into both by exposing each group to the other and giving them a reason to play both. That, for them, simply put is a cash opportunity and bringing in cash is the way to keep this game at its highest potential. And we aren't really talking about the players that will ONLY play one or the other but rather the middle of the road players that can be influenced.

 

2. Grinding sucks against mindless NPCs so the grinds in the arena would be less painful for the open world player.

 

3. One of the biggest obstacles in Potbs with regards to pvp was confidence of its players. You either sucked real bad or you were OP. There wasn't much middle ground. The arena requirements provide a training ground for players to build confidence and competence and therefore should make the open world more exciting.

 

4. Connecting the two not only has the effect of bringing in people from the other side but also has the potential to preserve player bases within each group. There will be constant reminders about the "other side" so it will be more difficult to get hyper focused on just one.

 

 

1. I very much doubt someone will pay $40 for a title and completely ignore half of the game because there are two buttons in the menu. If players chose not to play one or the other it's because they prefer one over the other. Forcing them to play both makes no sense and will not generate GL any further revenue considering their payment model.

2. Some players may (I know for a fact that some do) prefer to grind NPCs, why not allow them to do so if they please. I'm not saying NPC is the only way in open world, that's a ridiculous idea but there should be the option to as opposed to forcing PVP on everyone. How would you feel if you were forced to grind NPCs the way you're proposing others should be forced to play arena style gamplay?

 

3. So if anything leaving the arena as is, with no ties to the open world at all, provides an even more care-free enviroment to learn, yes?

 

4. If they wanted to do this they could do it easily without forcing players to play both to progress.

 

[Sir. Cunningham]

I think it's very important that a seperate arena match type game mode similar to what we have now is kept in place. i.e. one where you need to put out a certain amount of damage to progress to the next ship which you then get to keep and sail without fear of loss.  

 

This to make sure that people who enjoy the freedom of being able to choose what ship they wish to sail can do so, and also to make sure that the people who enjoy recreating famous large scale battles (Trafalgar etc.) involving mostly very big ships (1st, 2nd & 3rd rates), can do so much more readily. At the same time it will be great way to get to know each ship and practice for the important battles in the open world - esp. in terms of being able to experiment with various daring tactics that otherwise would be considered too risky.

[Johny Reb]

..the games that are successful are the ones that do this as little as possible.

I fail to see the resoning that "there are aspect of other games that I dislike but I'm forced to do, therefore this one should have similar undesirable aspects".

     I don't think you follow me at all. I'm not for grinding in any sense but its gonna be there and we need to get passed that. I think the devs are doing positive things to keep the grind to a minimum but I will be very surprised if there isn't a grind in the game. With this basic assumption I ask the question, "would you rather grind, dumb, endless, tactic-less NPCs that do the same thing over and over again or would you rather grind in an arena against the unpredictable? You may prefer grinding NPCs and that fine. I bet that option will still be available.

     Next, there is no forcing you to do anything with my idea. I suggest certain ships can only be unlocked in arena and certain ones in the Open World. You don't have to pursue the access to those ships if you don't want to. That would be entirely up to you.

     Also, your first statement isn't entirely correct. All your fantasy games employ grinds as a rule. WoT and Warthunder are grinds, period, and these are some of the most popular games out there.

 

Having an arena mode for casual players or players who simply prefer arena battles and don't want down time between engagements has nothing at all to do with NPCs and grinding. I don't understand where you're coming form with this. I never once said anything about either getting rid of grinding or only engaging NPCs in open world.

I brought up grinding as an argument to use in favor of my position. Speaking from an Open World perspective I suggested that if we are gonna have to grind then it would be more enjoyable to grind against other players than NPC's. Casual players in the arena only don't have to concern themselves with this argument since it doesn't really apply to them. They are already grinding players and not NPCs.

 

I simply think for players who want larged pitched battles they will find open world boring. Rather than accommodating them into open world why not give them what they want.

There will also be players who don't like large pitch battles. Rather than forcing these players into them (the escort system?) allow them a free open world that doesn't encourage heavy PVP with short down time between engagements. It's not natural, historical (let's see how many people solely focus on the historical accuracy/realism argument and forget everything else I've said) or desirable for many players.

     Large pitched battles will probably be the hallmark of the Open World as it was in Potbs but there will be long periods in between each one so those who want instant action will probably not go to the open world that often. In what way are they not being accommodating? Your argument is more along the lines of, "will it be successful to do this rather than should we try to do this."

     I agree with you that some will find the open world boring but it sounds as if you are saying that it would be boring to YOU. I ask respectfully, who are you to judge what others would and would not play. I for one would play both, especially if by playing one it would have some benefit in the other. I also spend a lot of time in hotels and at times only have an hour to play and I would be much more likely to play arena when my time is limited below an hour even though my heart is in the open world. It would also be an awesome training environment for my society. On top of that, if they limit first rates in the open world then playing arena may be the only way I get to sail one.

     You speak in absolutes but most of the "forcing" you talk about is anything but. Escort service will probably be small affairs. Merchants aren't going to pay for a group of 24 to escort them. Most likely they will pay for one or two. Also, no one is being forced into it at all. If you don't want to do escort stuff then play a privateer, a pirate, or a merchant.

 

1. I very much doubt someone will pay $40 for a title and completely ignore half of the game because there are two buttons in the menu. If players chose not to play one or the other it's because they prefer one over the other. Forcing them to play both makes no sense and will not generate GL any further revenue considering their payment model.

2. Some players may (I know for a fact that some do) prefer to grind NPCs, why not allow them to do so if they please. I'm not saying NPC is the only way in open world, that's a ridiculous idea but there should be the option to as opposed to forcing PVP on everyone. How would you feel if you were forced to grind NPCs the way you're proposing others should be forced to play arena style gamplay?

 

3. So if anything leaving the arena as is, with no ties to the open world at all, provides an even more care-free enviroment to learn, yes?

 

4. If they wanted to do this they could do it easily without forcing players to play both to progress.

1. I'm not really sure what your point is here in the beginning. Are you saying, now, that if there are two buttons: arena and open world, that players WILL play both because they won't ignore half the game? If that is what you are saying then good.

   - Again your using absolutes. There is no forcing anyone to do anything. There is a purpose to play both but it isn't required.

   - I'm convinced that GL will have other revenue generating options. They have already spoken of premium ships. They will probably have some gold buying option like wot in the arena game as well, and the open world will probably have stuff like guild purchases and cosmetic items for sale. If you play only arena then you pay the 10 dollars for some gold every month. But if you play the arena and the open world you pay that 10 dollars for gold and you pay another 10 dollars to start you guild. GL just made 20 dollars. So see, they make more money.

2. Nothing stops anyone from grinding NPCs if they want to. If grinding NPCs was all the game had to offer then I would go play another game! If I'm forced, as part of the game, to grind NPCs often then I will grin and bear it. I did so for three years in Potbs. This game IS ultimately a pvp game even if you can do alot to avoid it. Taking a position that eliminates or reduces it to a minimum isn't being honest to what the game is. Fighting for mechanics that remove pvp is a hopless and meaningless time sink. This is not a single player game.

3. uh... no. It doesn't effect it at all.

4. again there is no forcing here to play the other.

 

 

I think it's very important that a seperate arena match type game mode similar to what we have now is kept in place. i.e. one where you need to put out a certain amount of damage to progress to the next ship which you then get to keep and sail without fear of loss.  

 

This to make sure that people who enjoy the freedom of being able to choose what ship they wish to sail can do so, and also to make sure that the people who enjoy recreating famous large scale battles (Trafalgar etc.) involving mostly very big ships (1st, 2nd & 3rd rates), can do so much more readily. At the same time it will be great way to get to know each ship and practice for the important battles in the open world - esp. in terms of being able to experiment with various daring tactics that otherwise would be considered too risky.

I'm in complete agreement here. You gave a like to Sue's comment so I just wanted to ensure you that I am not suggesting that the two games be melded into one. I'm just suggesting that there could be some cross-over. If you want to just play arena then fine. You can do that. If you just want to play open world then you can do that also. BUT, there would be certain benefits in the OW if you played arena also, and there would be certain benefits in Arena if you played the OW also.

I think this is a hybrid that has a lot of promise for the gaming world at large with a growing interest in arena style games. It would also make a much more interesting Potbs skirmish environment without the fear that you couldn't find a fight. There would be no more begging for someone to join your skirmish. Wouldn't it be nice to be able to click an "arena" button and instantly load into that part of the game then having to log out of the OW and then launch the arena game?

[Sir. Cunningham]

I'm in complete agreement here. You gave a like to Sue's comment so I just wanted to ensure you that I am not suggesting that the two games be melded into one. I'm just suggesting that there could be some cross-over. If you want to just play arena then fine. You can do that. If you just want to play open world then you can do that also. BUT, there would be certain benefits in the OW if you played arena also, and there would be certain benefits in Arena if you played the OW also.

I think this is a hybrid that has a lot of promise for the gaming world at large with a growing interest in arena style games. It would also make a much more interesting Potbs skirmish environment without the fear that you couldn't find a fight. There would be no more begging for someone to join your skirmish. Wouldn't it be nice to be able to click an "arena" button and instantly load into that part of the game then having to log out of the OW and then launch the arena game?

 

That could work, although to be honest it sounds a lot like what Sue was saying 

[StuffinBeard]

I Like the "fleet escort" idea. 

 

Of course all of this is guesswork on my part. Take with a grain of salt. 

 

If you really like playing the PVP battles you can get into a que that allows you do do other things in the open world until called upon. Sounds much better than sitting at a lobby screen twiddling your thumbs. Even if your just out practicing tacking your at least doing something. If you are doing something that you don't want to break away from you can decline the call.

 

As far as having an escort (I hope NPC merchants can hire escorts as well) It can give you a way to mix people who want to play military and those who want to be traders. I can see a merchant ship gets attacked and then some players get pulled in to protect him. He can sail around the escort trying to not get in the way or get sank while they do their jobs. In the end either he gets protected or he doesn't but his chances without an escort were very low to begin. (balancing needed for protectors vs attackers)

 

With NPC escorting NPC this could set up some treasure fleets or just have more arena style for those in a que. The more people signed up in a que to play maybe the more NPCs  with escorts are spawned so there is always something going on.

 

The only issue I would see is that arena "fleet escort" players would have much more naval action (<---see how i did that?  ) going on that they might progress faster than someone just trading or playing open world. So the balance between playing fleet escort and regular open world needs to be thought of.

 

Do the fleet players have alternate ships to sail during these actions and then go back to their open world ships after? This way you progress in your military role separate from your open world? Makes it seem like your playing 2 different characters ( which i like that idea) at once but on your off duty time in the military your not swabbing the deck or shining the bell!

 

If you like PVP then your military character progresses and your in that sol that you want to play with and your open world guy is toodleing around in a brig. If your not into the PVP fleet battle thing but mess with it a bit your military guy has a lesser roll maybe in a cutter and your open world guy is running the best merchant ship of the era.

 

Sounds like a win win to me. Not forcing either play on anyone but also allowing the two to mesh.

 

Now come the thought of how to transition to the arena from open world without too much immersion breaking.

 

Osseon had a great idea if you ask me! (link below)

 

http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/4232-instances/page-5#entry88179

Edited March 18, 2015 by StuffinBeard

[admin]

Ability to fight in organized fleet battles will stay. The rewards and progression in this mode might change as we want to organically integrate it with the open world. 

[Sir. Cunningham]

Ability to fight in organized fleet battles will stay. The rewards and progression in this mode might change as we want to organically integrate it with the open world. 

 

Looking forward to see what you come up with

 

The important feature that I believe needs to stay is the ability to sail ships that you've unlocked at leasure in matches without having to worry about losing said ship, where'as in the OW you obviously need to worry about it. Hence why I think the two game modes need to stay seperate, although it might be possible to mesh them somehow and still achieve the above

[StuffinBeard]

Looking forward to see what you come up with

 

The important feature that I believe needs to stay is the ability to sail ships that you've unlocked at leasure in matches without having to worry about losing said ship, where'as in the OW you obviously need to worry about it. Hence why I think the two game modes need to stay seperate, although it might be possible to mesh them somehow and still achieve the above

I can understand this point.

 

If you find yourself constantly starting in a cutter but prefer to play in a Surprise it would only be a matter of time before you get frustrated and move on.

[312_JS]

I would be willing to have Arena Mode in the game if you could only sail the ships you have earned in Open World.

[Sir. Cunningham]

Wanted to bring this topic back to life as I feel this is really missing from the game atm and its disappearance has sadly caused a lot of players to eventually stop playing, esp. people who don't have a lot of time to invest in roleplaying several hours a day to earn their way up to the bigger ships that they actually purchased this game to sail.

 

Furthermore I believe that in addition to adding new players and luring back old ones, a reinstatement of an arena mode as we had in the Sea Trials will also serve as a very efficient training ground for new sailors - eventually making open world battles more intense, coordinated and exciting as people get more opportunities to practice team work and battle mechanics. Finally it will also prove an effective means of testing ship vs ship balance as well as any new combat mechanics added along the way.

 

Just my 2 cents after a rather long hiatus and a desire to experience some of the epic large scale battles of the past without having to devote several hours a day for the next many weeks to even approach this.

 

Best regards!

[Ink]

Don't we have already large and small battle instances for those who don't like to grind? Also you get way more xp by doing PVP, I think that with a desire you will be able to reduce your grinding by constant participating in those events in the EA stage. Maintaining two versions of the game might divert devs from concentrating on the MMO part of the game, I'm afraid

[Sir. Cunningham]

Just my opinion

 

Loved when I could just log on, pick the ship I wanted and sail in small or larges battles alike Good times