Hethwill Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 There are penalties. Negligible in their minds ( and in reality, the cash penalties are naught, and xp penalties should cost a rank ) if they can deny the enemy their rewards. Bit silly I know... that's what we get when we have everything easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Banned Sailor Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 Keep friendly fire ! Add little stuff like "karma", without penalties, a kind of reputation system Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angus MacDuff Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 Friendly fire is a fact of life. If you have two ships attacking one, you may scratch your friend's paint. We accept that. If two player's from the same nation are arguing over whether to kill an enemy (happened yesterday...he was one of the player's "friends") and it turns violent, then it's a tribunal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slim McSauce Posted October 23, 2018 Author Share Posted October 23, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, Angus MacDuff said: Friendly fire is a fact of life. If you have two ships attacking one, you may scratch your friend's paint. We accept that. If two player's from the same nation are arguing over whether to kill an enemy (happened yesterday...he was one of the player's "friends") and it turns violent, then it's a tribunal. sounds like a lot of salt for nothing. why should your team lose out because you're a mess of a shot? the only person who should pay consequences to friendly fire is the person who deals it. save devs the trouble of sorting out the trouble makers. Edited October 23, 2018 by Slim McSauce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hethwill Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 Mirror damage would be so so so so exploited... like it is in all games that have it 🤣 Tribunal would be thousands of pages long. Glad we have proper FF. If anything bad happens... F11...report. Done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruby Rose Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 why not remove friendly fire from the game then u cant damage ur own nations ships while in combat, it would then harden the rules regarding green on green. and add a feature that before leaving port whether to enable friendly fire to ur ship or not and make it a port on option. this way only those wanting to take allied damage can and those that dont wont. also can add perks or incentives to have FF turned on rather then off. like more gold or higher mark gain from kills. this way it satisfies all parties those that dont want FF and those that want it more realistic. cause if were going realistic alot of game features would need to be removed and many more added. like trader window u wouldnt have upto date while at sea of market rates or whether that port is overflowing with a specific good that would need to be removed then there is where on the map a port battle is happening outside of ur nation that wouldnt be knowledge every nation would have. not to mention wind direction in OW where is circles counter clockwise regardless where u are in the caribbean thats not realistic either. there as so many unrealistic items already in the game might as well add a FF on or off switch to the list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheHaney Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 1) Friendly fire is good. 2) If someone in your fleet is constantly hello kittying up in this regard, don't bring them again. 3) The tribunal needs to go if this game is ever going to be successful. Attacking friendlies should not be something the admins have to personally enforce; that's unrealistic long-term. 4) As far as I'm concerned, once you're in a battle instance all is fair. If a friend turns on you, tough shit. Make better friends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jean Ribault Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 Just now, TheHaney said: ...2) If someone in your fleet is constantly hello kittying up in this regard, don't bring them again. ... I don't know about that one. If you are in a clan and you accepted the player, unless he's being a blockhead on purpose it's kind of the clan's responsibility to train him or help him along to cure the problem. Another reason a duel room would be helpful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruby Rose Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 put it to a vote if majority in favor of removing FF then remove FF make it simple see what the players want Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruby Rose Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 2 hours ago, TheHaney said: 1) Friendly fire is good. 2) If someone in your fleet is constantly hello kittying up in this regard, don't bring them again. 3) The tribunal needs to go if this game is ever going to be successful. Attacking friendlies should not be something the admins have to personally enforce; that's unrealistic long-term. 4) As far as I'm concerned, once you're in a battle instance all is fair. If a friend turns on you, tough shit. Make better friends. u cant prevent players from joining battles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheHaney Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 1 minute ago, Ruby Rose said: put it to a vote if majority in favor of removing FF then remove FF make it simple see what the players want Ignoring the fact that you'll definitely lose, I've not been given the impression that this is a democracy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruby Rose Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 well if the devs only care about how their game looks this wouldnt be an alpha but already at full release so its completely on players to really develop the game into something majority will enjoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheHaney Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 Just now, Ruby Rose said: well if the devs only care about how their game looks this wouldnt be an alpha but already at full release so its completely on players to really develop the game into something majority will enjoy I can guarantee that the harsher and grittier the killing in this game is, the better it will do on the market. Nobody wants a Carebears with Cannons simulator. From a fun perspective, from a mechanics perspective and from a sales perspective, friendly fire is a necessity. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruby Rose Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 then tell me where did most of the players go then we started with over 5000 players and now have less then 400 actual players the game became not worth playing compared to other simulator based games. if FF is necessity then remove the no green on green then u cant complain when ur intentionally sunk by an ally Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruby Rose Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 see historically the captains of the 2 ships dont ask for permission before they sink u admist a battle. they dont go hey can i sink u to deny them the kill. no they shoot u regardless cause thats expected when going into battle. especially to prevent pow's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slim McSauce Posted October 23, 2018 Author Share Posted October 23, 2018 Just now, Ruby Rose said: then tell me where did most of the players go then we started with over 5000 players and now have less then 400 actual players the game became not worth playing compared to other simulator based games. if FF is necessity then remove the no green on green then u cant complain when ur intentionally sunk by an ally or when your enemy sinks each other to troll you because it's easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheHaney Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Ruby Rose said: then tell me where did most of the players go then we started with over 5000 players and now have less then 400 actual players the game became not worth playing compared to other simulator based games. if FF is necessity then remove the no green on green then u cant complain when ur intentionally sunk by an ally Oh goodness, I of all people have a laundry list of things I think need to be adjusted, improved, removed, etc. I also just flat-out don't like the dev team (sorry devs, I'm sure you're nice in person). Nowhere on that veritable tome of issues and complaints I have is friendly fire listed as a reason players left. And if your complaint is that friendly captains sink each other to prevent the enemy from scoring, that's a very minor mechanical fix that has nothing to do with removing friendly fire. Edited October 23, 2018 by TheHaney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slim McSauce Posted October 23, 2018 Author Share Posted October 23, 2018 Just now, TheHaney said: Oh goodness, I of all people have a laundry list of things I think need to be adjusted, improved, removed, etc. I also just flat-out don't like the dev team (sorry devs, I'm sure you're nice in person). Nowhere on that veritable tome of issues and complaints I have is friendly fire listed as a reason players left. there's lot of things the majority of players aren't immediately aware of. a handful of times will we have a serious meta conversation that goes beyond what's to come right ahead of us, mostly because development is so slow we're always 4 steps ahead while the game catches up to our ideas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruby Rose Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 i can tell u pretty straight up why alot of players left and its due more on the lack of proper patches and content, as well as the merging of servers and lack of player population, i can tell u that merging the 2 pvp servers resulted in about 250 or so players quitting the game because of loosing their clan and all their progress. i can also tell u there are half a dozen other things in the game that are unrealistic. but thats not for today what this topic is about is disabling friendly fire. i believe in the best interest of the non hardcore pvp players that the game shouldnt purely revolve around the pvp players interests but should reflect the pve players as well. this change doesnt solely effect the pvp server. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheHaney Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 ...Are we talking about PvP or friendly fire? As far as I'm concerned those are two separate subjects. If you're stuck on the whole "let's sink each other to grief the enemy" thing, the ultra-simple solution is to do what most other games do: friendly fire doesn't count towards scoring. If the enemy gets ONE shot on the target and the rest of the damage is friendly, that kill goes to the enemy with the one shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruby Rose Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 doesnt stop players from shooting eachother while part of the same nation thats a fact and anyone can say they had verbal permission to do so and the devs wont be able to do anything about it thats a fact. what they need to do is have a port option that enables or disables FF that way all parties are satisfied and give incentives to have it enabled Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slim McSauce Posted October 23, 2018 Author Share Posted October 23, 2018 Just now, TheHaney said: ...Are we talking about PvP or friendly fire? As far as I'm concerned those are two separate subjects. If you're stuck on the whole "let's sink each other to grief the enemy" thing, the ultra-simple solution is to do what most other games do: friendly fire doesn't count towards scoring. If the enemy gets ONE shot on the target and the rest of the damage is friendly, that kill goes to the enemy with the one shot. so remove the only positive function of green on green, which is to deny kills. Once that's gone what do you have left? Punishing others or getting punished yourself for your teams mistakes aka friendly fire. or The person who makes the mistake is the one is punished via mirror damage, which can put you on advanced timer or a temp ban, saving the tribunal process and the frustrations that go with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruby Rose Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 4 minutes ago, TheHaney said: ...Are we talking about PvP or friendly fire? As far as I'm concerned those are two separate subjects. If you're stuck on the whole "let's sink each other to grief the enemy" thing, the ultra-simple solution is to do what most other games do: friendly fire doesn't count towards scoring. If the enemy gets ONE shot on the target and the rest of the damage is friendly, that kill goes to the enemy with the one shot. people would exploit that to the fullest one player hits u with a random shot at range then a whole fleet jumps in and closes the distance now u kill urselves and only 1 player benefits from it. plenty of ways to exploit that type of mechanic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheHaney Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 Denying kills isn't a "positive function." It's a toxic display of poor sportsmanship. Friendly fire isn't supposed to have a positive benefit. It's supposed to add a layer of difficulty, force tactical thoughtfulness and add a sharp edge to the learning curve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruby Rose Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 1 minute ago, Slim McSauce said: so remove the only positive function of green on green, which is to deny kills. Once that's gone what do you have left? Punishing others or getting punished yourself for your teams mistakes aka friendly fire. or The person who makes the mistake is the one is punished via mirror damage, which can put you on advanced timer or a temp ban, saving the tribunal process and the frustrations that go with it. the fact of green on green was forbiddened before was to stop team killing, hence why they removed the ability to shoot ur own nation in OW. mirror damage would be exploited to the fullest with blocking shots to intentionally damage ur allies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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