mod J & P Rebalance Mod by JonnyH13 and Pandakraut 05/06/2023 1.28.4

[dixiePig]

10 hours ago, KeithD said:

Are you able to share some ideas on configurations that you have found work for you?

Hi Keith - I'm still trying to get a handle on the current mod, so will hold off on any comments on that for now. PandaKraut has offfered some observations  about 'best practices' (i.e. rest your troops, use cavalry to harrass and pick off weakened units, etc.) and I agree with most of them. 

I'll try to write something useful in the near future.

Edited April 23, 2023 by dixiePig
typo

[dixiePig]

Is there any way, when you are in-battle, to identify what level you are playing at? (COL/ BG/ MG)

The Kluge:  

1. Save the battle
2. [Restart] the battle
3. Go to [Camp]
4. View/mouseOver the icon above your Army Commander in upper left of the screen
5. Reload the battle

** CONFIRMED by PK **

Edited April 27, 2023 by dixiePig
clarity

[pandakraut]

On 4/24/2023 at 7:47 AM, dixiePig said:

Is there any way, when you are in-battle, to identify what level you are playing at? (COL/ BG/ MG)

The Kluge:  

1. Save the battle
2. [Restart] the battle
3. Go to [Camp]
4. View/mouseOver the icon above your Army Commander in upper left of the screen
5. Reload the battle

Not from in battle. Have to go back to camp to check.

[dixiePig]

Things That Are Not Wonderful in the New Version : ARMY ORGANIZATION

• As CSA, You need to be at AO Level: 2 in order to fight 1stBull Run (8 units)

But

• You need to be at AO Level: 4 in order to fight the next battles Ambush Convoy (12 units) and Stay Alert (13 units)

Because 

• AO Level: 3 only gives you another Corps which adds nothing of value and is ... utterly useless

SOLUTIONS:

1. AO Level: 3 gives you another Division (1 Corps / 3 Divisions / 4 Brigades : 12 units)
2. AO Level: 4 gives you another Brigade (1 Corps / 3 Divisions / 5 Brigades : 15 units)
3. AO Level: 5 gives you another Division (1 Corps / 4 Divisions / 5 Brigades : 20 units)

In this way you can actually fight the early battles with maximum number of units available

Okay, so you still have to spend most of your CAREER points on AO, but at least you can have a reasonably configured army.

By the time you reach battle #10, Gaines Mill, which is the first time you actually need and can use a 2nd Corps, you will have been able to build a reasonable force.

As I've posted before, The AO Thing is a problem which is poorly handled in the legacy version of UGCW - and hasn't really been improved or fixed in the current update.

"Army re-Organization" was a very real issue in the Civil War and resulted in interesting changes to army structure and the tactics of that time - especially during the first year-and-a-half of the war (which is also when the most interesting and competitive battles happen in UGCW). There was more to it than just 'you can have more & bigger units.'

I realize that it's tough to mod the base game in order to accomplish some improvements, but I will be posting on some of my 'fixes' and techniques - mostly involving configFiles - in the near future.  PK and Johny have managed to make a much better game within the limitations of the old one.

Edited April 29, 2023 by dixiePig
typo

[pandakraut]

On 4/28/2023 at 4:01 PM, dixiePig said:

Because 

• AO Level: 3 only gives you another Corps which adds nothing of value and is ... utterly useless

SOLUTIONS:

1. AO Level: 3 gives you another Division (1 Corps / 3 Divisions / 4 Brigades : 12 units)
2. AO Level: 4 gives you another Brigade (1 Corps / 3 Divisions / 5 Brigades : 15 units)
3. AO Level: 5 gives you another Division (1 Corps / 4 Divisions / 5 Brigades : 20 units)

AO 3 doesn't give you another corps. AO gives +1 corps at 1, 7, and 10. You're probably seeing the increase from the bull run battle reward which gives +1 corps. The CSA side doesn't care, but the union cares quite a bit about having 2 corps for Shiloh.

Swapping the brigade and the division from AO 3 to 4 doesn't change much, you get to bring one extra officer to bull run as the union and the csa get to wait one extra battle before going from AO 3 to 4.

But it also doesn't cause any problems and the progression is a little smoother so why not. Will be in the next patch which should be out soon.

[pandakraut]

Updated to 1.28.4

Changelog Highlights

- A Major General Light difficulty is now available. When starting a new campaign and selecting MG difficulty, a prompt will show up prior to entering your name. 
This difficulty is the same as MG except the AI units will be smaller and less experienced. This should be closer to playing MG in the base game or in earlier versions of the mod.
- AI weapons quality throughout the campaign has been standardized to be closer to what is used on legendary.
- All config files have been reorganized and comments have been added in the files to indicate what values do.

- Bugfixes and minor balance changes.

-Save game compatible.

Full changelog is in the /Mod/Rebalance/Change logs folder

[Fenian98]

On 4/22/2023 at 12:38 AM, pandakraut said:

The key to this is getting into a good enough position prior to those reinforcements arriving. This usually means you want to have the majority of your units across the river, the VP in your possession, and hopefully with a little time to setup your defensive line and rest while cleaning up the remnants of whatever CSA units are left from the earlier phases.

Preserving your condition through all of this tends to be the hard part since early union stats are terrible. One trick, that was a bit of an oversight and might get fixed in the future, is that you want to trigger the 2nd phase pretty early. This is the opposite of older versions where you wanted to avoid triggering it as long as possible to get into position to rush across the river.

The reason for this is that the extra time from the first phase is now added to the timer in the second phase. This was done so that accidentally triggering the phase early didn't result in a large time loss. But what it enabled is that you can trigger it early to spawn your reinforcements sooner and give them more time to walk over to the objective and then rest before crossing.

You can still win the old way, but it's much much harder. Took me probably a dozen attempts to get it right when I was testing.

This is on MG but the core ideas should generally work on legendary as well https://youtu.be/5IBIQQCKKc0

These are a not quite the current version but forefall has a partial legendary campaign as well. Important to note that he ended up with one of the easiest versions of legendary I've ever seen due to a few things that I've since patched. So while a lot of this is still valid it's probably not possible to get as good of results anymore. https://youtu.be/VPmVKwplK2I

Hope that helps, if you have more questions please ask.

 

[Fenian98]

Deleted and restarted after only giving the rebs a bloody nose at the 1st Bull Run. Hammered them this time!! Cracking game

 

Union                                         CSA

Inf 24043                           Inf 30470

Cav 1017                            Cav 1397

Art 86                                 Art 87

Casualties                          Casualties

Inf 7090                            Inf 17729 

Art 9                                   Art 61

Cav 765                             Cav 900

                                           Missing 5883 

[Fenian98]

On 5/7/2023 at 4:52 AM, pandakraut said:

Updated to 1.28.4

Changelog Highlights

- A Major General Light difficulty is now available. When starting a new campaign and selecting MG difficulty, a prompt will show up prior to entering your name. 
This difficulty is the same as MG except the AI units will be smaller and less experienced. This should be closer to playing MG in the base game or in earlier versions of the mod.
- AI weapons quality throughout the campaign has been standardized to be closer to what is used on legendary.
- All config files have been reorganized and comments have been added in the files to indicate what values do.

- Bugfixes and minor balance changes.

-Save game compatible.

Full changelog is in the /Mod/Rebalance/Change logs folder

Does this affect my game that I have running now or is it just a mod to give the MG lite option for new campaigns?

Thanking you.

[pandakraut]

26 minutes ago, Fenian98 said:

Does this affect my game that I have running now or is it just a mod to give the MG lite option for new campaigns?

Thanking you.

This is just an option for new campaigns. It's really no different than using the config files to adjust the AI size and XP, just packaged into a more official difficulty.

[dixiePig]

On 5/6/2023 at 11:52 PM, pandakraut said:

Updated to 1.28.4

Annotations in the configFiles = Much Appreciated

Going to take it for a spin now ...

[dixiePig]

UPDATE 1.28.4

20 hours ago, dixiePig said:

Annotations in the configFiles = Much Appreciated

• The ex-DocumentationManager in me is delighted with the re-organization & ordering, plus the integration of configFileGuide notes. Very helpful for those of us who like to fiddle with the attributes. Having the 'most customized' attributes at top-of-list is very helpful.

Worth mentioning:

FYI: AIconfigFile : New attributes
//Chance that an enemy or allied infantry unit will optimize their perks.
optimizedPerkProbability, 0

//Chance that an enemy or allied infantry unit will choose all melee perks if their equipped weapon has a high melee stat.
optimizedPerkMeleeOrRangedProbability, .5

• Does this effect behavior (i.e. a unit with stronger melee stat is likelier to charge?)

//Multiplier of max effective range that AI units will advance to before unlimbering. Current value is intended to get them to move to the edge of shell range before setting up to fire.
artilleryLimberedRangeModifier, .75

//Enables randomized deployment positions in some battles. Disabling this will mostly restore the base game deploy positions for the AI.
enableAlternativeDeployments, true

FYI: ConfigFile 

//Prevents unit positions from reseting between phases or days. This can cause all kinds of problems so use at your own risk.
removeReset, false

• I find it strange that systemic global reset of troop positions between phases/days doesn't cause problems itself, rather than the-other-way-around. My preference:  Leave troop positions "as is" by default. Allow reinforcement in CAMP, if appropriate. Perhaps allow some re-positioning on map within limited range. PS:  Staying in postion allows 'entrenchment'.
• Speaking of which:  an entrenchment attribute in configFile would be nice.  

//UI Modifiers
//----------------------------------------
//Skips the general mod tips popups on startup.
skipHints, false

• helpful

//Number of men a unit's size is set to when middle clicking the soldier slider.
middleClickSize, 1750

• helpful.  hadn't noticed it before.

#niceStuff

[pandakraut]

2 hours ago, dixiePig said:

Does this effect behavior (i.e. a unit with stronger melee stat is likelier to charge?)

The AI charge logic does take perks into account, so if a unit ended up with all melee perks it would be more likely to charge.

These optimization values are currently disabled by default and very basic to allow for some testing.

2 hours ago, dixiePig said:

• I find it strange that systemic global reset of troop positions between phases/days doesn't cause problems itself, rather than the-other-way-around. My preference:  Leave troop positions "as is" by default. Allow reinforcement in CAMP, if appropriate. Perhaps allow some re-positioning on map within limited range. PS:  Staying in postion allows 'entrenchment'.
• Speaking of which:  an entrenchment attribute in configFile would be nice.  

When positions are reset, all of the units on the field are cleaned up and then redeployed into specific locations. This avoids all kinds of problems like units no longer being on the map after it resized, new units spawning in on top of where the old units were, and a variety of bugs and exploits that can occur based on what the player does in camp. It also solves the issue of units being able to end the day in melee, camping overnight on top of the unit they are fighting, and waking up to resume the melee.

Repositioning like what grand tactician allows would be the dream, but also wildly outside of anything I can mod in.

I'm not sure what you mean by an entrenchment attribute. The mod does have a dig in feature where units that stay near the same spot can build up a cover bonus. Indicated by their unit flag slowly gaining the white fortification outline. These values are not currently configurable. While carrying this over day to day would be nice, its a pain to do on the technical side and in most cases units would have time to regain their bonus before engaging enemy units.

 

[dixiePig]

20 hours ago, pandakraut said:

PK>The AI charge logic does take perks into account, so if a unit ended up with all melee perks it would be more likely to charge.

These optimization values are currently disabled by default and very basic to allow for some testing.

• Is it possible to vary this AI-generated value from battle to battle?  

Currently the AI is fairly uniformly AGGRESSIVE. Such aggression is a function of command decisions. Makes for tough battles.  But enemy commanders are not always uniformly aggressive.  Aggression can lead to rash decisions and uncoordinated attacks (thank goodness).  Some commanders are more defensive - or careful - or methodical.  Perhaps the 'profile' of the enemy AI commander(s) could be reflected in pre-battle 'Intelligence' (a function of RECONNAISANCE perk).

20 hours ago, pandakraut said:

PK>When positions are reset, all of the units on the field are cleaned up and then redeployed into specific locations. This avoids all kinds of problems like units no longer being on the map after it resized, new units spawning in on top of where the old units were, and a variety of bugs and exploits that can occur based on what the player does in camp. It also solves the issue of units being able to end the day in melee, camping overnight on top of the unit they are fighting, and waking up to resume the melee.

• Thanks for the clarification, PK.  FWIW: In rare cases, sometimes units did actually remain 'engaged' overnight. Still, it would be nice if there were more graceful options for redeployment.  Especially since the current hard reset often places units awkwardly - in a way which does not reflect the actual dynamics of the battle.

[pandakraut]

5 minutes ago, dixiePig said:

Currently the AI is fairly uniformly AGGRESSIVE. Such aggression is a function of command decisions. Makes for tough battles.  But enemy commanders are not always uniformly aggressive.  Aggression can lead to rash decisions and uncoordinated attacks (thank goodness).  Some commanders are more defensive - or careful - or methodical.  Perhaps the 'profile' of the enemy AI commander(s) could be reflected in pre-battle 'Intelligence' (a function of RECONNAISANCE perk).

The AI general profile names would not really be helpful for the player to know in most cases. There are around 20 of them and I have useful information on the differences of maybe 2 of them. These can also change phase to phase within a battle.

In general, the AIs aggressiveness seems to be tied more to perks, weapons, and stat selections. I'm basing that off of restarting battles over and over and seeing significant differences in ai behavior. We do have some plans to generate templates which set ai units to favor one aspect or another. The perk optimization configs are a step in that direction to help us test.

No firm plans yet, but if that system is added the player will likely get some information on the type of personality they are facing with recon involved in some way.

11 minutes ago, dixiePig said:

Thanks for the clarification, PK.  FWIW: In rare cases, sometimes units did actually remain 'engaged' overnight. Still, it would be nice if there were more graceful options for redeployment.  Especially since the current hard reset often places units awkwardly - in a way which does not reflect the actual dynamics of the battle.

Yeah, it did happen it's just one of those no win scenarios where both forcing units to reset and not resetting them have scenarios that don't always make sense.

As far as I know the hard reset positions were all attempts to roughly reset the units into the historical positions at the start of the day. Though some were clearly more carefully crafted than others.

[dixiePig]

I am currently fiddling with the configFiles.  My agenda is to have ARTY and CAV unit strength reflect the disorganization of the early years of the war:  These units were smaller, unsystematic, and unintegrated until 1863 - when they emerged as stronger, more independent formations.

Early artillery units often had only 2 cannons.  My historical-esque scenario keeps the ARTY unit size low (as it was in Civil War) until later in the game. I attempted to reflect this in the configFile:

//Minimum size of units when created.
infantryMinSize, 850
cavalryMinSize, 100
skirmisherMinSize, 150
artilleryMinSize, 50

This should allow you to create a small ARTY unit of 2 guns - and then give it a starPerk by adding Veterans to build  a maxSize of 100 : 4 cannons.

• Unfortunately, the game does not recognize the smaller minSize when creating a new ARTY unit - the ARTY minSize remains 4 cannons.  Any particular reason why?

The recent CAREER reorg is a big plus.

 

 

Edited May 12, 2023 by dixiePig

[dixiePig]

11 minutes ago, pandakraut said:

We do have some plans to generate templates which set ai units to favor one aspect or another. The perk optimization configs are a step in that direction to help us test.

No firm plans yet, but if that system is added the player will likely get some information on the type of personality they are facing with recon involved in some way.

• Sounds good

PS

The recent CAREER reorg is a big plus!

Edited May 12, 2023 by dixiePig

[Fenian98]

Did ye ever play Take Command 2nd Mannassas? That was a great game. The "Take the road" option was brilliant for moving troops and saving energy. Is that an option in this mod? Also the "move into column" button was good when moving troops too.

[pandakraut]

20 hours ago, Fenian98 said:

Did ye ever play Take Command 2nd Mannassas? That was a great game. The "Take the road" option was brilliant for moving troops and saving energy. Is that an option in this mod? Also the "move into column" button was good when moving troops too.

I have not but Jonny has. Unfortunately the only way to keep units on roads in this game is to manually draw the path along them. The roads are just painted onto the map and have nothing that could be used to enable that kind of pathing.

Units in the game automatically move into column when they are far enough away from enemy units and when given a movement target far enough away.

We've discussed adding a manual option, Jonny likes assault columns, but it's never ended up happening due to UI and balance reasons. Perhaps at some point.

[gavinreid]

Hi, I have the 1.11 custom. 1.9.2 version on a Mac that has the uiai configuration file. This mod sounds ds better because I don't know what the vales and thing are to edit the campaign how I want, so would I just verify the files, then download this one? Or do I just add it sortve? Idk much about computers I'm sorry 

[pandakraut]

On 5/22/2023 at 8:19 AM, gavinreid said:

Hi, I have the 1.11 custom. 1.9.2 version on a Mac that has the uiai configuration file. This mod sounds ds better because I don't know what the vales and thing are to edit the campaign how I want, so would I just verify the files, then download this one? Or do I just add it sortve? Idk much about computers I'm sorry 

In the UI mod, the main configuration options that are usually changed are the following

timerMultiplier: use a larger value than 1 to increase the amount of time available in battles.
endOfDayMultiplier: use a larger value than 1 to increase the amount of time available in battles.

enableAISizeMultiplier: set to true if you want to adjust the size of AI units using the next value
AISizeMultiplier: use a value larger or smaller than 1 to adjust the size of AI units up or down.

The J&P mod has a lot more options, but also changes many more parts of the game. It is not compatible with the UI mod, but all of the UI mods features are already included in it. If you want to switch mods, just verify files and then follow the same installation process with the files for the J&P mod.

[KeithD]

I've never liked the way detached skirmishers behave like modern day special forces dropped behind enemy lines, running around completely devoid of any attachment to their parent unit, able to stand and trade volleys with brigades numbering thousands of men and laugh at death... its one of the absolute worst parts of the game.

I've also never liked the fact you can't split brigades down into its component regiments, and either use to cover a quiet flank better or micro manage a position.  Like Jacksons brigade at the 1st Bull Run battle. 

It seems to me there is a solution to both of these flaws in the game.

Have you considered replacing the detach skirmisher function with detach regiment or regiments(s)?

[pandakraut]

2 hours ago, KeithD said:

I've never liked the way detached skirmishers behave like modern day special forces dropped behind enemy lines, running around completely devoid of any attachment to their parent unit, able to stand and trade volleys with brigades numbering thousands of men and laugh at death... its one of the absolute worst parts of the game.

I've also never liked the fact you can't split brigades down into its component regiments, and either use to cover a quiet flank better or micro manage a position.  Like Jacksons brigade at the 1st Bull Run battle. 

It seems to me there is a solution to both of these flaws in the game.

Have you considered replacing the detach skirmisher function with detach regiment or regiments(s)?

It's not possible to add the ability to split multiple children off of the parent.

Changing the unit type of the child that detaches is possible but is a mess from a technical perspective.

The ability of detached skirmishers to stand up to brigades should be significantly reduced compared to what has been possible in the past. When not near another non-detached unit, their morale regen is reduced significantly. Combined with their small size they are usually only able to exchange a handful of volleys before being driven off.

The tier 2 maneuver perk currently doubles the size of detached skirmishers, which is a step towards something similar to regimental detachment. This will probably get expanded upon in the future when the custom perk system is implemented.

[dixiePig]

Although it is tempting to want to micro-manage regiments, it's unlikely that the game could perform well with that many units in a major battle (there would be hundreds).  The other reality is that no commander could juggle that many units in real time.

The standard/classic 'god's eye view' of a tactical battlefield is a real stretch on many levels:

• A battlefield isn't conveniently sized within the constraints of the available viewscreen.  We already know how problematic combat 'at the edges of the map' is.
• As noted, roads in the UGCW map are purely decorative. In the historical battles they were absolutely critical to effective movement.
• No commander in the 1860's could possibly have a coherent view of the entire battlefield.  There were no recon drones.  There was lots of dust and smoke obscuring formations. You could rarely identify individual units accurately. Troops disappeared behind hills and in valleys.  Activity was often inferred by sound (rifle and cannon fire).
• There was (almost) always a delay between recognizing a situation and acting on it. There were no radios.  A 'signal corps' emerged eventually (significantly at Antietam), which might speed information to and from distant units, but as a general rule, response to local situations was - initially at least - handled by local commanders, rather than central command - and situational information and troop commands traveled by couriers ... with a delay in both directions.(Note: improvements to communications might be on the wishlist for an ArmyOrg or Reconnaisance perk)

Micro-managing the 'god's eye view' of a major battle in UGCW is fun & challenging, and the rebalance is making it even better.  But the limitations of that format do not take into account many aspects of the historical situation.

Edited May 25, 2023 by dixiePig
clarity

[dixiePig]

I have now reached 2nd Bull Run again as CSA, using the 'modified Legendary' profile, as well as my own 'historical-at-that-point-in-the-war' CAV and ARTY maximum troop levels (CAV: 250, ARTY: 150/ 6 guns).  These settings worked well for all battles up to this point.

But 2ndBR is still seriously 'unbalanced' in the fact of a high number of 2* and 3* units in the AI Union army.  This is a sudden & unexpected change.  Where did all of these highly experienced troops come from?  in mid-1862?  They certainly didn't appear in great numbers in previous battles.  PS: Given the newer more difficult dynamics for gaining XP, my army has even fewer 2* units than in previous versions of the game.

Perhaps I can 'equalize' by fiddling with the config files (AIscalingExperienceMultiplier), but continue to suggest that the current game profile for the Union AI forces in 2ndBR is profoundly out of whack with the rest of the game up until this point.  I do not know what the profile of Union AI forces is beyond 2ndBR.