Needed tweaks for econ, speed mods and a change for entering OW after battle

[Tiedemann]

Economy: Remove AI port consumption of crafted materials and remove the AI consumption of rare wood logs we need for crafting = should help getting a player driven economy.

The way the economy works now it is not rewarding enough for players to bother supplying the player marked with much or anything at all.. Because it is so much easier to craft 10.000 iron ingots and sell it to a AI ports, that are consuming crafted materials. As long as the traders and crafters are not supplying the player marked, we will never see the healthy competitive prices on ship, cannons or consumables. Because there are to few who are making this stuff now the prices stay high and the solo players will have a hard/terrible time ingame.

Also the AI ports are for some reason consuming the rare limited woods.. So traders players are buying it up, thereby pushing the prices up, just so they can sell it to AI ports.. 

In the big picture this is contributing to making PvP expensive! But I would still argue for lowering the prices on crafting fir log, oak log and iron ore with 50%. Because we need so much of it just to craft the basic stuff, like repairs and cannons. A different solution could be to lower the need for it in all crafting recipes with 50%. Then we would need less and have more labor hours, but that is a larger change and risk effecting more aspects..

Speed meta/upgrades: Reduce drop rate, nerf speed gain % and/or add more drawbacks. Speed caped ships should be rare and impossible for most ships. 

The speed mods are to powerful and to common now. Copper plating, Gazelle Bow Figurine, Crooked hull refit (has a nice drawback at least), Bovenwinds Refit ( I have not tested this), Optimized ballast and probably some more. We also have the perk for extra storage space now that gives you extra speed if you don't load you ship up to much (this might be a bug).
This all needs some nerfing and/or more drawbacks for balancing. Because when you have a ship that can carry 75 + rigg repairs in the hold and still be speed capped at 15 kn, then you are uncatchable. At best it just becomes a stale in OW between players with speed capped ships. And the losers are those who enter OW in a ship that can't reach the speed cap. So now if you have a ship that does 14.99 kn, just stay in port. If you go out looking for PvP you will be hunted down and killed by a/several faster ship. And if you try to hunt the players outside your own port they will out run you.
IMO it should be very rare to have a speed caped ship, almost impossible. My fir/teak Suprise does 15 kn with repairs, just with 4 speed modules. It should not be so easy, and it should not be possible to do with so many ships.

Leaving a battle instance/Revenge fleets issue:

In a battle we often sail in one direction for a long time. Even after the battle is over, we can still sail for another 15 minutes. So why can we not leave a battle instance and enter open world in the same position? Because when we leave we magically reappear where it all began. And that makes it to easy for other player to camp the battle site in OW.
I'm assuming the coordinates between OW and in the battle instance are interchangeable, but they might not be. A solution then could be to calculate the distance traveled in the battle, and then add that to our X and Y coordinates when returning to OW.

I'm also supporting the removal of the battle cross when the battle closes, but not as long as we still have the invisibility feature. Because the invisibility cloak is abused to surround unaware players. Therefor we need the battle crosses ingame as a warning sign to players traveling through.      

Reducing the join time for battles further, adding Exit to friendly harbor option or increasing invisibility time will not help PvP, at least not long term. It will guarantee a gank fest right now that will slowly kill of our new players. Because the losers in those fights will be solo players and new players. And when they get scared away from sailing in OW, then we all lose..

Feel free do discuss and disagree.. ^^

[Guest]

Agreed - except the speed meta is never going away. Instead of a 15kn speed cap, make it a cap on possible % gains. Other than that: / signed

[Liq]

30 sec invis. timer basically is a joke, I have explained my standpoint of revenge fleets multitple times and declared them as total BS, but I geuss NA is now favoring and trying to please the RvR audience more, so they could RolePlay and keep away pesky enemies, no matter if the mechanics allowing to do so make zero sense.
Make a Compromise, e.g. 1.5 times Full Speed in any wind direction (as OW speeds are already messed up anyway) for 60 sec, and 60 sec invis timer.
At the same time have a 'you cannot attack others' for 2 or more minutes in return, so you cannot use the Invisible timer as a cloaking device.

Other than that I agree. Hard cap on a specific amount of knots is dumb, we need caps in percentages.

Edited June 29, 2017 by Liquicity

[Havelock]

I only see 2 ways of reducing the speed meta to a minimum:

1) Remove all speed mods. If a ship is naturally fast, nice. As long as other stats are bad its balanced.

2) Reduce the hardcap to 14kn or even 13kn. Naturally fast ships will have more slots to personalize, slow ships need more upgrades. "Hunting the 15" is a stupid modding minigame atm.

[Lordicious]

2 hours ago, Tiedemann said:

Economy: Remove AI port consumption of crafted materials and remove the AI consumption of rare wood logs we need for crafting = should help getting a player driven economy.

 

It won't help. If Devs want Econ to work they need to overhaul Shop. Removing or keeping AI makes no difference. 

Devs must add:

-Show product quantities in each port. (Port stock). 

-Select regions and see sale history of up to 7 days. 

History ex.

Iron Ore - Sold 500/80$ea (3 days ago)

Iron Ore - Sold 300/75$ea (2 days ago)

Iron Ore - Sold 1000/75$ea (today)

...

-Sort product by category, name, list date, price etc..

-Search and show product orders and their total delivery payout. 

-Port Demand window. (Show players what materials are missing from the shop in that port). 

Without these player driven Econ won't work on such vast world. Right now you can't even call it econ, it's more like a prehistoric age where first humans were hunting with rocks and sticks.  

Edited June 29, 2017 by Lordicious

[Hodo]

The top speed of the ship should be base on its base speed.   NO vessel should be able to have more than 10% over its max designed speed.  

So no matter how many mods you stack on a Indefatigable it wont go 15kn.   But an Endymoin, Lynx, and even the Privateer can get to 15+ kn.   

Edited June 29, 2017 by Hodo

[Tiedemann]

On 29.6.2017 at 7:48 PM, Hodo said:

The top speed of the ship should be base on its base speed.   NO vessel should be able to have more than 10% over its max designed speed.  

So no matter how many mods you stack on a Indefatigable it wont go 15kn.   But an Endymoin, Lynx, and even the Privateer can get to 15+ kn.   

That I think that idea is a better and easier idea to implement then my suggestion. My only concern is that getting super fast ships would still be to easy, so I would still want the speed upgrades to be nerfed. Or better give them more draw backs. I do not mind fast ships as long as they are made of papir.. Like the crooked hull refit is a very good speed upgrade imo, it gives a lot of speed% but also lower HP. 

Edited July 1, 2017 by Tiedemann

[Hodo]

2 hours ago, Tiedemann said:

That I think that idea is a better and easier idea to implement then my suggestion. My only concern is that getting super fast ships would still be to easy, so I would still want the speed upgrades to be nerfed. Or better give them more draw backs. I do not mind fast ships as long as they are made of papir.. Like the crooked hull refit is a very good speed upgrade imo, it gives a lot of speed% but also lower HP. 

The thing is it doesnt matter how many speed upgrades you put on the ship it still wont go over 10% of its designed speed.