Parazaine Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 (edited) Maturin eloquently states one point of view and i acknowledge that a change to missions is forthcoming. I explained my reasons for the 'point and click' missions ... not everyone can dedicate the required time to hunt a.i packs. I re-iterate what are your reasons for hating 'easy' clickable mission mechanics? if you don't like them you can do as you suggest .. it hurts no-one other than those that seek to impose their play-style on others. Personally i have the time to play without 'hand-holding' missions .. my concerns are for the longevity and success of the game. If the devs want a small fanatical PvP oriented player-base and don't care about making a profit then you will probably get what you want. My question remains, what does it hurt to provide for both camps? you can enable 'point and click' missions in PvE server/s for those that want them and disable them in PvP servers surely? without either affecting the other unless i'm missing something? Edited June 1, 2017 by Parazaine responding to an above comment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parazaine Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 I agree that the current a.i. levels and paths need to be adjusted (higher) AND the a.i. being able to attack each other and players needs to be reintroduced. Both things would lend weight to the arguments against the mission changes that many have been asking for imo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironhammer500 Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, maturin said: Small doses, exactly. That's why I called for limiting the missions available per day. Anything from 1-3 would be fine. Problem was, the new OW austerity made constant missions the most reliable, profitable activity. Please think about pve players on PVE Server want me to write it any  bigger? Edited June 1, 2017 by ironhammer500 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maturin Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 30 minutes ago, ironhammer500 said: Please think about pve players on PVE Server want me to write it any  bigger? PvE players have even less reason to be hiding from the OW. You can sail around the Windward Passage all day with never any risk, nor is there the slightest purpose is grinding faster than the competition. There isn't any competition.  Look, this is game design. We're all hamsters in a maze. The game can make you miserable by incentivizing bad habits. Hamster gets the kibble the more he times he brushes up against the taser in one small corner of the maze. 90% of people (including myself) don't have the willpower to resist superior rewards and instant gratification. The devs need to protect us from ourselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironhammer500 Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 Just now, maturin said: PvE players have even less reason to be hiding from the OW. You can sail around the Windward Passage all day with never any risk, nor is there the slightest purpose is grinding faster than the competition. There isn't any competition. Â Look, this is game design. We're all hamsters in a maze. The game can make you miserable by incentivizing bad habits. Hamster gets the kibble the more he times he brushes up against the taser in one small corner of the maze. 90% of people (including myself) don't have the willpower to resist superior rewards and instant gratification. The devs need to protect us from ourselves. We also have almost no reason to be on the OW atm since there is no AI fleet wars or anything for us atm, so explain to me what the point in removing Solo missions from PvE server is for? Stop gold income? There is only 200 pop on the server so really it makes no difference and with the increase in npc ship price the need for gold income to be increased has gone up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoneyBaddger Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 1 hour ago, maturin said: I was never, ever attacked once in hundreds of missions in Cuba. There's no risk when you are only 5 minutes from port. Give us 2 more days and the wrath will be coming for you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maturin Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 25 minutes ago, ironhammer500 said: We also have almost no reason to be on the OW atm since there is no AI fleet wars or anything for us atm, so explain to me what the point in removing Solo missions from PvE server is for? Stop gold income? There is only 200 pop on the server so really it makes no difference and with the increase in npc ship price the need for gold income to be increased has gone up. Well for that matter there's not much point in having a PvE server at all. But you have an OW, so you might as well use it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironhammer500 Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 (edited) 5 minutes ago, maturin said: Well for that matter there's not much point in having a PvE server at all. But you have an OW, so you might as well use it. People like you with that attitude who ruin this game, you should always cater to every market....want hardcore PvP play the Arena Naval action then... I talk to alot of people some who came from pvp and they prefer the calm relaxed server Edited June 1, 2017 by ironhammer500 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoneyBaddger Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 1 minute ago, ironhammer500 said: People like you with that attitude who ruin this game, you should always cater to every market....want hardcore PvP play the Arena Naval action then... They don't have to please you! OR me! It is there game, not ours. PvE...sigh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironhammer500 Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 Just now, airborneguy said: They don't have to please you! OR me! It is there game, not ours. PvE...sigh. Then say goodbye game? If you only focus on a small market the game will not get enough money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parazaine Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 Just now, Hodo said: I rarely agree with Maturin, but he isnt attacking you or your style, he is just saying that there is NOTHING to worry about on the PVE server. Â You dont have to hide in a battle to get away from a possible ganker. Â You dont have to worry about revenge fleets sitting outside the battle because you attacked some one. Â Â You can go run missions or attack AI ships ALL DAY LONG. Â Â So why oh why oh why is there so much opposition to solo missions? will expanding them cripple the game performance? will it affect PvP players on the PvP server? Is it difficult to do? On the contrary, it would probably encourage more people to buy and play the game and once they were comfortable they would gravitate to the PvP side of the game thus promoting the game style that is obviously the most focused by the developers ... everyone wins. Plus i keep seeing people saying about playing in their Surprises and Indefatigables as if ALL players have redeemables to use. A cynic might think that there was a hard-core sub-set of players that were only interested in their own agendas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hethwill Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 Regarding the PvP mission mindset everything changes. The hunt. Even if the focus is combat against bots the hunt is important. The major difference from PvE server on PvP server at the moment is - you must be in the OW and chase your objective. Can be said it is wrong, yes it can. But will be as wrong as wanting a strict PvE enclave in a PvP based server. Â Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironhammer500 Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 (edited) 19 minutes ago, The Red Duke said: Regarding the PvP mission mindset everything changes. The hunt. Even if the focus is combat against bots the hunt is important. The major difference from PvE server on PvP server at the moment is - you must be in the OW and chase your objective. Can be said it is wrong, yes it can. But will be as wrong as wanting a strict PvE enclave in a PvP based server. Â im not asking for pve on a pvp server, im asking for all the PvE content to be unlocked on PvE Server like solo missions so we can do PvE, but a lot of people have the attitude of why bother with PvE players they are all carebears. Edited June 1, 2017 by ironhammer500 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maturin Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 22 minutes ago, ironhammer500 said: im not asking for pve on a pvp server, im asking for all the PvE content to be unlocked on PvE Server like solo missions so we can do PvE, but a lot of people have the attitude of why bother with PvE players they are all carebears. It's really not a PvE v PvP thing.  I've gone through times on the early OW where PvP was very hard to find, and levelled almost exclusively with PvE. The game is better without missions.* You don't offer cheetos and corndogs at a decent restaurant.  *In their current form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parazaine Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 45 minutes ago, ironhammer500 said: im not asking for pve on a pvp server, im asking for all the PvE content to be unlocked on PvE Server like solo missions so we can do PvE, but a lot of people have the attitude of why bother with PvE players they are all carebears. This is what a lot of players are asking for. It would only affect the PvE server and players can always opt out and hunt the a.i. if they choose. Are we really saying that if we offer missions that players will not have the will power to resist 'easy-mode'? As far as a re-vamp of the mission system is concerned, i really hope that some effort is put into it as the current (and previous) missions are v limited and crippled by useless a.i. If there is going to be no difference between PvP and PvE servers then why differentiate between them? or even have PvE? I would have more respect for the game if a decision was made one way or the other rather than the current half-way-house system which obviously satisfies no-one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maturin Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 Quote Are we really saying that if we offer missions that players will not have the will power to resist 'easy-mode'? Yes. Yes, and again yes. It's already proven. I have no willpower. The developers need to protect me from myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironhammer500 Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 1 minute ago, maturin said: Yes. Yes, and again yes. It's already proven. I have no willpower. The developers need to protect me from myself. But maybe missions is what people enjoyed the most? Anyone ever consider maybe the other stuff in NA is boring and not appealing at all..i loved missions because it was quicker to get into combat which imo is the best part of the game. Instead of forcing people to do the less enjoyed content maybe leave the Missions in and improve the OW, improve trading, improve PvP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironhammer500 Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 Just now, Hodo said: Maybe we enjoy the hunt?  I enjoy hunting, be it people or AI.  The thrill is the hunt and catching that perfect prey. That is the problem those who complained also like hunting and pvp so now the devs give people who whined a lot what they wanted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironhammer500 Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 1 minute ago, Hodo said: Maybe they are the majority, and the needs of the many out weigh the needs of the few or the one. Â I think missions should definitely be on the PVE server but limited on the PVP server. Â But I also think the PVE server should have been shut down and rolled into the PVP server and both PVP servers merged. People did not like the idea of being on the PvP without safe zones and people were very much against safe zones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironhammer500 Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Hodo said: I dont like safe zones in a game like this. Â It feels artificial and forced. Hence the need for a PvE server but the PvE server needs its own rules to suit the gameplay, for now we are having fun hitting 3rd rates, but the fleet missions right now are totally unbalanced and almost impossible to do in a fleet. Edited June 1, 2017 by ironhammer500 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironhammer500 Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 2 hours ago, Hodo said: I run master and commander missions solo in a Renomee. Â I cant imagine they are that hard, learn to deflect shots off your hull, learn to stay up wind, and control the fight. Â Â Learn to fight on your terms not the NPCs. With cannonades? Not everyone who has just started the game gotten up to Master and commander will be at that level this is what Solo missions were for to teach the player how to handle 1 enemy of that ship rate in the current ship rate which worked well, you got almost 1/5 the rewards u got from the old fleet missions so i dont get how the devs say Solo missions made everyone rich, that is not true it was the old fleet missions. I prefer the Solo missions as it feels like a more 1 vs 1 style game play which id expect from small time pvp so i can make mistakes and follow the AI, which imo seems to be smarter then players, they use sails perfectly, position them self perfectly, Aim almost perfectly.. AI is best trainer imo, so Solo Missions were sort of the tutorial, but hey people who get 3rd rates wont know how to sail them properly now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironhammer500 Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 Just now, Hodo said: Actually running with medium guns. Dont have carronades (not cannonades that is COMPLETELY different). I dont have carros on any of my ships currently running mediums all around. Strange ive tried it and the npcs load up Double charge and wreck my sides even at angles they should not, its their double charge which seems to be the issue, i mean im not good at combat but i struggle, id like more people to do videos on the whole solo fleet missions thing cause i never understand how people do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironhammer500 Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 (edited) I think i found why the AI are so strong now, they get longs and double charge so they can pen armour at stupid angles now. Edited June 2, 2017 by ironhammer500 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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