'Independence' 90 ->54 gun Heavy Frigate Refit 1814 (With Plans)

[Ned Loe]

'Independence' 

 

USS Independence was a wooden-hulled, three-masted ship, originally a ship of the line and the first to be commissioned by the United States Navy. Originally a 90-gun ship, in 1836 she was cut down by one deck and re-rated as a 54-gun frigate.

 

Launched on 22 June 1814 in the Boston Navy Yard, she immediately took on guns and was stationed with frigate USS Constitution to protect the approaches to Boston Harbor. 

 

Independence remained in ordinary at Boston until 1836 when she was razeed (cut down to one covered fighting deck with poop and forecastle). 

She was rated down to 54 guns as her configuration gave way to that of a very large frigate. She proved to be one of the fastest and most powerful "frigates" of the Navy.

 

​Original armament - 90 × 32-pounder (15 kg) guns

Possible Frigate armament  -  54 × 32-pounder (15 kg) guns

 

Do you think we need this ship as 54-gun Heavy Frigate? Discuss and post plans or more info. I would pay coin to see her in NA who will take over Constitution.

90 Guns

 

Cut down to 54 Frigate 

 

 

Possible look

[Sella]

Interesting proposal!

 

I'll leave this here as another heavy frigate candidate:

 

 

 

 

 

Hellas

Greek frigate

62 guns

1826

 

 

 

Characteristics:
Length:54 m
Width: 14m
Tonnage:1728 t
Draft:4.2 m

 

Guns:48(16 pdr) + 16 carronades(42 pdr)

Her plans

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/34n9y6ozvjg9gh2/Hellas-Hudson%201.JPG?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/63964kab8hl9ebt/Hellas-Hudson%202.JPG?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/7x3qg2greo89pqv/Hellas-Hudson%203.JPG?dl=0

sources:http://www.history.navy.mil/research/histories/ship-histories/danfs/h/hudson-i.html

 

Model: http://greekshipmodels.com/ships/fregata-ellas/

 

Better resolution plans here: https://openlibrary.org/books/OL24398454M/The_history_of_the_American_sailing_Navy 

 

[Ned Loe]

Interesting proposal!

 

I'll leave this here as another heavy frigate candidate:

 

 

 

 

Looks very similar , but maybe slightly shorter. 

[Sella]

Looks very similar , but maybe slightly shorter. 

 

Indeed!

 

Independence: 190' 10''

 

Hellas: 177' 10''

 

 

Independence:http://threedecks.org/index.php?display_type=show_ship&id=2381

 

[Talos]

Fun ship, went from being a really bad ship of the line to an excellent heavy frigate, though with all the problems of the type. Very heavy structure, for instance, so she's slow in light winds, also pretty stiff if I remember correctly. She wasn't cut down until the 1830s, after the NA time period. Powerful armament of 32-pounders and 8" shell guns.

 

Here are her plans as a razee.

 

 

She also lasted long enough as a recieving ship at Mare Island in San Francisco to be photographed, being stricken in 1913, a hundred years after she was laid down.Here's a gallery with some of them.

http://imgur.com/a/khpWn

 

 

[Ned Loe]

Fun ship, went from being a really bad ship of the line to an excellent heavy frigate, though with all the problems of the type. Very heavy structure, for instance, so she's slow in light winds, also pretty stiff if I remember correctly. She wasn't cut down until the 1830s, after the NA time period. Powerful armament of 32-pounders and 8" shell guns.

 

Here are her plans as a razee.

 

USS Independence Razee.jpg

 

She also lasted long enough as a recieving ship at Mare Island in San Francisco to be photographed, being stricken in 1913, a hundred years after she was laid down.Here's a gallery with some of them.

http://imgur.com/a/khpWn

Thanks for sharing, but Cut down has nothing to do with build. I could be cut down in 1815. I means it remained 1814 ship all the time until shortened. Devs have to comment on this, but I would accept it. 

[Talos]

Looks very similar , but maybe slightly shorter. 

Hudson is an interesting design too, the very last civilian-designed sailing frigate in the US Navy. Built along packet lines, she had a very poor reputation in the Navy, mostly stemming from her construction. She's about the closest thing in the Navy to a 64-gun ship too.

[Talos]

Thanks for sharing, but Cut down has nothing to do with build. I could be cut down in 1815. I means it remained 1814 ship all the time until shortened. Devs have to comment on this, but I would accept it. 

 

Yes, she was built earlier, but in the time period I've seen NA is set in, she was an over-loaded, ineffective ship of the line that could barely open her lower gunports without pulling a Vasa/Mary Rose. As a razee she was a /very/ powerful ship and armed with weapons that are out of period, like the advanced 32-pounders the US Navy adopted later on when they unified all ships with 32-pounders (replacing all smaller guns on most warships) or the 8" Paixhans-style shell guns.

[Ned Loe]

Yes, she was built earlier, but in the time period I've seen NA is set in, she was an over-loaded, ineffective ship of the line that could barely open her lower gunports without pulling a Vasa/Mary Rose. As a razee she was a /very/ powerful ship and armed with weapons that are out of period, like the advanced 32-pounders the US Navy adopted later on when they unified all ships with 32-pounders (replacing all smaller guns on most warships) or the 8" Paixhans-style shell guns.

I am only interested in Frigate version. We could have 24lbs on all decks or all 32lbs caros. In my opinion it can fit well in tree above Constitution. with slightly better speed, but worse turn and better armor (lineship class). This can be a great addition for Port Battle Skirmish groups and NA needs them badly. 

[Sella]

Hudson is an interesting design too, the very last civilian-designed sailing frigate in the US Navy. Built along packet lines, she had a very poor reputation in the Navy, mostly stemming from her construction. She's about the closest thing in the Navy to a 64-gun ship too.

 

It wasn't actually built for the US Navy but yes

 

I believe you have read this:

 

 

Also i don't believe it hurts adding ships that were razeed beyond the end dates as long they don't carry modern armament as stated above.

[OTMatt]

I would rather have the 90 gun version if the US ever needs a 2nd Rate spot to fill in. I'm not a fan of super frigates anyway.

[Ned Loe]

I would rather have the 90 gun version if the US ever needs a 2nd Rate spot to fill in. I'm not a fan of super frigates anyway.

With new patch lineships will only be used in pvp or Regional Capitals. Frigate era is upon us.

[maturin]

I hear War Thunder just got ATGMs added, so why not?

[Talos]

It wasn't actually built for the US Navy but yes

 

I believe you have read this:

 

 

Also i don't believe it hurts adding ships that were razeed beyond the end dates as long they don't carry modern armament as stated above.

 

Not built for, but bought by the US Navy. The last time that happened for a frigate (it was the method of the subscription frigates before).

 

I have read that, I have the book open on my lap right now as I transcribe the Indepence's spar dimensions as a razee for here. I'll get them done in a few minutes.

[OTMatt]

With new patch lineships will only be used in pvp or Regional Capitals. Frigate era is upon us.

 

Hmm I would bet they will go and change some things after players complain about the lack of SOL battles. I think some players really wanted to experience the Trafalgar battles than silly connie/inger fights.

[Talos]

If you're going to do a US Ship of the Line, better to do Ohio, said to be so good she sailed as handy as a frigate. Much bigger and better-balanced ship than the Franklin and Independence-types.

 

Here's the spar dimensions for Independence.

 

Edited June 7, 2016 by Talos

[OTMatt]

If you're going to do a US Ship of the Line, better to do Ohio, said to be so good she sailed as handy as a frigate. Much bigger and better-balanced ship than the Franklin and Independence-types.

 

Yes! Wind needs to do a thread on the North Carolina and Ohio for US First Rates. Personally I prefer North Carolina since its the earliest but I can go with either ship.

[Talos]

Yes! Wind needs to do a thread on the North Carolina and Ohio for US First Rates. Personally I prefer North Carolina since its the earliest but I can go with either ship.

I have the lines for both of those classes if it will help. I already posted one in the US plans thread, along with the Pennsylvania.

 

 

These are side views of all the liners that have full plans in Chapelle.

http://i.imgur.com/f8RGHgZ.jpg

Edited June 7, 2016 by Talos

[Haratik]

I hear War Thunder just got ATGMs added, so why not?

Maturin hit the nail on the head. The only reason I had not posted the Indy's refit is due to the date attached. I personally don't think we need a bigger, badder Connie. The Indefatigable is coming, and while I'm sure there will be other big bad frigates as well, please, for the love of God, let's not bend the rules as they stand now.

[Alex Connor]

Sure, let's just go ahead and obsolete the Constitution in favour of a 1836 design that never fired a shot in anger and can best be summed up as an expensive mistake.

 

While we're at it, screw all these boring Napoleonic era vessels, why not throw in steam ships and exploding shells, that would be great fun...

 

/sarcasm

[Talos]

While I don't disagre with the gist of what you're saying, Independence did have a little bit of wartime service, participating in the Mexican-American War in 1847. She's even credited with helping capture a schooner, though it was her Marines that did it, I believe, and participating in the blockade of the Mexican Pacific Coast and the capture of Guaymas.

 

Of course, any American heavy frigate design is going to obsolete Constitution. She was one of the first, oldest, and weakest of the designs and literally every one after is a tweaked improvement of her design. After the War of 1812, she recieved a refit that got her essentially to Guerriere-class standards, though six inches narrower in beam (biggest change was a new stern with six chase ports. She still has it today). The Brandywine class after that was six more inches wider, finally allowing two full gun decks, as well as the round stern that eliminated the blind spot and weak spot of her stern, preventing raking fire.

[OTMatt]

While we're at it, screw all these boring Napoleonic era vessels, why not throw in steam ships and exploding shells, that would be great fun...

 

/sarcasm

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_brig_Mercury

[Haratik]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_brig_Mercury

 

your quoted post makes no sense Matt.

[OTMatt]

your quoted post makes no sense Matt.

 

I'm just saying the USS Independence is older(lol) in comparison. There is no reason to deny the USS Independence ingame along with its Razee variant when the Devs plan to do the same for other ships like the Pavel.

[Alex Connor]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_brig_Mercury

A ship built in 1820 that is identical in overall design and capabilities to any one of hundreds of napoleonic era brig-sloops.

 

Mercury fits well with existing ships and although only built right at the very end of NAs period merits inclusion due to a distinguished combat history.