I think admin/devs owe a lot of people an answer, put this issue to rest.

[Insomnion]

Oh I get what you guys are trying to say, Iam just pointing out its obvious to everyone that historical accuracy, or prior imagined developer promises are not the real reason.

Edited March 7, 2016 by Insomnion

[Insomnion]

I feal bad for you guys though, Iam going to give you some tactical advice I would do in your situation. Sorry Kuthara.

 

1: Expect and accept to lose some ports, harden your hearts and let your care bears cry a bit, you already have enough big ships, crafting isnt as important.

 

2: Get together in your faction, make apologies when needed, the people with big ego's be quiet and follow someone else, you dont need to be the head guy all the time.

 

3: make peace with the brits, were whooping there ass also, make apologies where needed, let them lead if they want too.

 

4: assign a willing clan in the factions allied agenst us to turn pirates and attack us from the inside.

 

5: Attack multiple ports, plan things, be nice too each other, make it work.

 

6: grow up, stop crying on forums.

 

 

There is 20 of us who do ALOT of work, some nights after work I spend 2 hours in ts and not even loading the game, having chats with other officers, solving problems talking to other factions, and Iam not even taking all or close to all the credit, there are 5-10 more guys who work harder than I do.

 

Ill be ready for some of these things you try, youll prolly still lose, but well all have fun.

[KrakkenSmacken]

I personally think its more likely the people upset about pirates, are upset about losing, more then anything. After all, are the upset US players here admiting that they believed the pirate faction was going to be hardcore, so they joined an easier faction, and they're upset because they dont have the advantage they thought they would?

 

I cant speak for all pirates, but I joined the faction my friends from other games had already joined. They joined a faction that was slightly harder then other factions. We had pvp in mind. We had experiance running clans in other MMO's and we all worked together to form a strong pvp alliance. 

 

Unlike the USA who had no problem rolling through the Spanish, who had a HUGE disadvantage, those of us leading the pirate coalition have made special care to go after BOTH of the strongest factions, the USA and British. 

 

Stop making it out to be something its not, anyone who reads these forums knows that if you were winning, this wouldnt even be a discussion.  

 

Where are all the USA players complaining that the spanish had a unfair disadvantage with theyre port capture windows?

 

Added after second thoughts:

 

If there are any other Decent USA or British players that think this kind of viewpoint your fellows are making are embarrassing make a post that your USA and British and disavow your fellows acting this unsporting. 

 

I personally would welcome some changes to diplomacy mechanics in game and making pirates more hardcore also, but thats just because I welcome a challenge. 

 

No matter what happens dont expect us to stop working together, we have 100-200 people that all like each other and are mostly all on the same ts, over 100 on slow nights like tonight, thats not because we have more people in our faction then you either, its cause we respect each other and have worked together.

 

Either way, lay off the developers theyre doing a great job, and deserve extra credit for sticking too theyre values.

 

 

As a pirate on PvP2 where we are getting our ever loving asses handed to us right now, and you may in fact be onto something here.  

 

I watch the pirate chat, and for the last several days it has been a rather conflated discussion about who should be doing what, whom screwed whom over, why are we losing, how we can keep new players from jumping ship because our home port is basically camped 24/7, and a plethora of generally depressing driving in circles about a "pirate strategy", none of it really going anywhere.  

 

I think the developers need to take a good hard look (eventually) as how they are going to deal with the losers.  It's an axiom in the gambling industry (I used to develop lottery games) that you don't need to worry about how to show wins to winners, the positive reinforcement is built in, its far more important that you control the losing experience so as to not make it too painful.  

 

ANY nation getting overran is probably going to break down into several categories of "not having fun" behavior that we are seeing now on multiple servers from different groups. The trick is giving those nations a reason to think they can come back, or a final resolution like "welp, we lost, time to play a new game" and move to a new server that has just opened up, such as you find when the family gets together and plays risk and needs to start a new game.  

 

Keeping a "Risk" game interesting after it has devolved into two players fighting on the same equally divided fronts is a task of futility.  Now imagine if in risk you could never lose your last location, and when in that state were given only one new "army" every turn, that the other players could attack and prevent you from ever building a threatening force.

 

That is the situation with port game we are playing now, and for those on the short end of the stick, don't expect many positive responses. Blaming the "pirates" on PvP1 because they are not "supposed" to be a nation, is not addressing the real problem of how the game deals with the losing experience.

 

Sandbox and conquest, I am not sure I have ever seen that built together successfully. 

[Ruthless4u]

Oh I get what you guys are trying to say, Iam just pointing out its obvious to everyone that historical accuracy, or prior imagined developer promises are not the real reason.

For me and others it simple.

The devs gave a lot of players the impression that the pirate faction was supposed to be more unique and harder. IIRC I belive it was prater who summed it up with a post in this thread as the developers selling us on the idea. I know I was hoping to switch to pirate after learning the game as a national, but seeing pirates are a just a bland clone of nationals there is no point.

I see a lot of of pirate players claiming that those who want these changes are upset that pirates are OP. How can pirates be OP when there is no signifigant differences separating them from other factions? Yes another pirate can attack you but it's not really as earth shattering as claimed.

I can say that it's pretty obvious the reason pirates want their faction to stay the same is due to the majority not being able to handle a change that would make them harder. There are a few of the pirate players who seem like they welcome the challenge a change would bring. but they are few and far between. At least here on the forums.

We also read what the developers said how it's not a priority because their poll states the community does not view it as a priority, although how the abundance of threads on the issue does not seem to indicate anything is beyond me. I know it's insulting to the devs but I am not exactly filled with confidence they will actually do anything. On this issue at least all they have to offer is empty words.

[Insomnion]

Exactly Ruthless, you dont have confidence, we all get that. The Devs have stated there case also, theyre doing things in the order they believe the majority of the playerbase wants, they dont care what the naysayers think. Now all you have left to do is shit up the forums and try to get as many other people pissed as you can. 

 

The problem is the rest of us pirates only see people that were pvping  names popping up agreeing with you. So if the majority of people who are having the issue are the losing people in pvp, it makes us think your all sore losers crying on the forums.

 

If you still enjoy the game, confidence or not, the only thing left for all you guys to do is to play the game as best you can, and wait and see if the devs address it. 

 

tbh, it kinda ruins my fun beating on 2 factions that are as big as us at the same time, that are so obviously demoralized. The only thing that keeps me going is that I know there are cool guys with spines of iron in your factions, I run into them all the time, get with whatever program theyre running.

 

When we run into SLRN on the british side with theyre full stacks of bellona's and pavels and were in friagtes with 15 3rd rates, we know were in the shit, and they sail well. Praters clan on the us side used to have my respect atleast on the willingness to fight, but now that I see 2-3 of there members in this thread I have lost it. Go Ally with SLRN and let them lead the multi faction alliance you need to create, they have theyre shit together.

 

Thats all the help i can give you guys now, ill let this thread turn back in to whining now.

Edited March 7, 2016 by Insomnion

[Mrdoomed]

I can only assume some people here have learning disabilities because no matter how black and white the devs spell it out the exact same peope say the exact same thing.

I also see that the biggest complainers are the ones having thier perfect little utopia disturbed by roaming bands of pirates and are losing to them so i quetion the validity of thier complaints.

Lastly its all based on pvp1 pirates. Pvp2 pirates are everything the " change pirate " crowd wants. We are low in numbers , spread out everywhere, disorganized, fight amongst ourselves , low on resources and hunted to the ends of the earth while our capital is camped 24/7 by nationals. So it seems the pirates on pvp2 are just what the complainers want.

So how is it that with the same game on both servers one is " unfair and unpirate like" amd the other one is what they want ? Seems to me the dev team has it mostly right amd its thr players on pvp1 who have to problems.

[Aphilas]

You guys want to run around saying "we're pirates" but you dont want any of the costs for being pirate

 

And you guys want to run around saying "pirates should be this and that" while you don't want any of the costs being a national navy.

How come you guys are not requesting systems that would give nationals orders to patrol between port A and port B for a month. If you are spotted anywhere else you are punished by admiralty and lose your ship/xp? Ohh right, because that would suck for you even if it's "how it should be".

 

 

Let the pirates think and comment on how pirates should play and stop being hypocrites.

[MaryCeleste]

How about, for like a month, we get rid of all nations, make every port a freetown and allow all players to attack each other.

 

Then lets see if/how certain groups of band together to fight for and control certain ports.  Or how others just free roam and attack targets of opportunity. 

 

Then after everyone has experienced that, we can all make an informed decision on how pirates should be played and whether or not it is any different than how it is now.

 

Or
 

We could just change the pirate faction to "free captains" and put to rest the issue.  Because it seems to me this has all come down to labels (doesn't everything?)

[Long Beard]

I see a lot of of pirate players claiming that those who want these changes are upset that pirates are OP. How can pirates be OP when there is no signifigant differences separating them from other factions? Yes another pirate can attack you but it's not really as earth shattering as claimed.

I can say that it's pretty obvious the reason pirates want their faction to stay the same is due to the majority not being able to handle a change that would make them harder. There are a few of the pirate players who seem like they welcome the challenge a change would bring. but they are few and far between. At least here on the forums.

 

 

Did you just hit the nail on the head?

So basically what you're saying is that only small minority of pirates want change, but the vast majority (large majority of the community) are happy with things they way they are?

Since you've stated Pirates have no advantage over other nations, and most pirates are happy with the status quo, then why the barnacle are you nationalists who don't play pirate still prattling on about sweeping changes? Why do you even care? Other than Pirates having a level playing field, it has absolutely no impact on you or your game.

Switch to pirate for the long term, then come tell us how much we need change.

 

tldr: Most pirates are happy, most nationals who have nothing to do with pirates are unhappy.

 

[Powderhorn]

Most nationals are avoiding this discussion because the topic has already been answered.  This wasn't what we voted for as a community to be a priority, so it will be addressed later on down the road.  In fairness, we did this to ourselves.  We said that what changes had to be made to pirates had to be made BEFORE early access started, so we wouldn't have people play it as a nation and then expect it to continue for it to BE played as a nation.  We knew these changes had to be made beforehand, but we voted for something else entirely.  We wanted the developers to do what we wanted while at the same time doing what needed to be done.

 

That's our fault, and I apologize for my own role in it, as I myself cast my vote for improved officer and crew management.

 

That being said, the discussion will come up again when the developers have reached a point where they are ready to approach it.  At that time, I imagine much of this conversation will be rehashed.  However, that's a conversation for that time.  For now, the juvenile back-slapping and cheering of each other really doesn't paint those of you participating in it in a good light.

[KrakkenSmacken]

I can only assume some people here have learning disabilities because no matter how black and white the devs spell it out the exact same peope say the exact same thing.

I also see that the biggest complainers are the ones having thier perfect little utopia disturbed by roaming bands of pirates and are losing to them so i quetion the validity of thier complaints.

Lastly its all based on pvp1 pirates. Pvp2 pirates are everything the " change pirate " crowd wants. We are low in numbers , spread out everywhere, disorganized, fight amongst ourselves , low on resources and hunted to the ends of the earth while our capital is camped 24/7 by nationals. So it seems the pirates on pvp2 are just what the complainers want.

So how is it that with the same game on both servers one is " unfair and unpirate like" amd the other one is what they want ? Seems to me the dev team has it mostly right amd its thr players on pvp1 who have to problems.

Very much this I believe.

 

PvP2 lost two entire pirate clans due to them switching to nationals for whatever reasons. Before that the group was fractured between those that wanted to defend the capital, and those that wanted to strike out and establish a new base in the SE.

 

There in was the rub of the problem, there is no way for a nation to switch where new players enter the game on their side.  There was no way for the pirates to abandon a losing battle in Mort, and migrate wholesale to another area, new players included.

 

We either stick it out where everyone knows we are and continue to lose to larger forces, or abandon new players and eventually starve out through attrition, which is exactly what appears to have happened.  I personally don't mind the challenge, I clicked that "hard" button to join pirates for a reason.

 

That said, the way the game is designed the port game appears to be almost entirely a population game. The most popular nations to play are the ones that end up winning through numbers, and those populations are largely based around where people live, or if they don't want to fight for that side, Pirate.  

 

At least that is the way it starts.  PvP2's recent political fracturing of the pirates indicates that eventually players get it and are willing to jump to other countries to find greener pastures/better play, at least if they find themselves on the losing end of things. Pirates did that because defending a fallen fort is basically a very un-fun thing to do, and I suspect the size of the pirate clan in PvP1 has something to do with wanting to be on the "winning" team and the fact that switching to pirate is the easiest nation to switch into without losing everything.

 

I really think the problem was naming the nations.  It's all historical and fun and all, but the fact of the matter is a very small % of the new and future players will care very much about historical country names, or fighting the good fight for their country of choice. If no country is represented then that same recognition and sense of tribalism will transfer to clan/color. 

 

I think the use of named nations may be causing the unintentional consequence cat turd in the open world sandbox.

[KrakkenSmacken]

Most nationals are avoiding this discussion because the topic has already been answered.  This wasn't what we voted for as a community to be a priority, so it will be addressed later on down the road.  In fairness, we did this to ourselves.  We said that what changes had to be made to pirates had to be made BEFORE early access started, so we wouldn't have people play it as a nation and then expect it to continue for it to BE played as a nation.  We knew these changes had to be made beforehand, but we voted for something else entirely.  We wanted the developers to do what we wanted while at the same time doing what needed to be done.

 

That's our fault, and I apologize for my own role in it, as I myself cast my vote for improved officer and crew management.

 

That being said, the discussion will come up again when the developers have reached a point where they are ready to approach it.  At that time, I imagine much of this conversation will be rehashed.  However, that's a conversation for that time.  For now, the juvenile back-slapping and cheering of each other really doesn't paint those of you participating in it in a good light.

 

I wonder if this issue has become big enough, and circumstances changed enough, that the developers should re-evaluate priorities, or ask the community again if the old priorities still make sense. 

 

Of course I would never suggest they derail existing work milestones that would result in lost hours, but perhaps they should consider bumping the priority of these issues a notch. 

 

That said I don't know the demographic percentages of the the game as it relates to traders/PvE/PvP.  It could be that a large majority of the players don't give a rats ass about what nation they are on and are more than happy with the current road map, and simply want to play the profit and craft game and look for in combat improvements, and not really caring about the port capture game.

 

I believe that was a major reason that Neutral players are no longer Neutral players, that they simply played the game to amass pixels and digital wealth and in the process took too much control of the economy.  The Devs did adjust course in that case, maybe if they look at the game metrics and popularity drop off they can tell if they need to adjust course again.

[Babble]

Like the admin told you. If you want to play a pirate a certain way then leave your big cushy national faction and come join a pirate faction and play him that way ! Boom mic drop !

Oh but you wont do that you would much rather cry all day and night. Come on to pvp2 and join pirates. I dare you !

Nope you wont you and others who play nationals want a change in a faction you dont even play lol. You kill me.

Again i dare you to come to pvp2 and roll pirate. I play exactly like a 1800s rat so come on and stop complaining about a faction you will never play.

 

Actually thats exactly what i did.

 

I am one who has been advocating changes in the pirate mechanics to make them a different play style then just another nation.

 

I was hoping they would be hard mode. No port capture. Tons of PVP.

 

I started playing a NAT on EU in hopes of rolling rat once i learned the ropes.

 

Then i found out rats are just another nation.   So i found the most beaten down Nation i could find so i can go play hardmode.

 

So i rolled a rat on pvp 2.  This is experience is far closer to what being a rat should be.  However it is only this way due to the fact that the population on the entire server and the rat player-base as a whole is so low.

 

So i may have a unique perspective.  I have a Nat and a Rat.  I still think the rat's should change.  And when they get harder ill gladly still play rat.

[Random]

Here're my two cents on the issue:

A lot of people seem to be of the opinion that individuals who ask for pirates to be something other than what they are now are all national players. That is not true. I for one started playing as a pirate expecting a different game experience. When I didn't get it and saw a nation that had players I respected and wanted to play with, I joined them. To me, the greatest problem with "leaving your capitol and playing a pirate the way you want" is reinforcement. I can chase a target for as long as I want, I can ambush people as many times as I can, but if they call in reinforcements who magically arrive out of nowhere, my chase and ambush are pointless, and my pirating is forcing me to either sack AI traders, or always against forces greater than me (which is not the pirating way I want to play). There is nothing wrong with pirates being a nation at the moment (yes, they are a nation - cooperation is not a surprise, when people are forced to band together by outside forces attacking them - they become a common target to someone and acquire a common enemy - that fosters cooperation, particularly with the number of players who want to pay pirates because of romanticized portrayals in the movies). The problem is that some of us wanted more and found the game lacking in that regard. As this is Alpha, this lacking seemed warranted to point out - that's what testing is for. A whole lot of you keep insisting that people just want to ruin your nation. Perhaps some are, but keep in mind that there are others out there who simply want a more unique experience that they expected (for whatever reason) when purchasing this game.

[Mrdoomed]

They should make every nation unique or every nation equal or every nation not a nation and neutral.

None of it will matter. Unhappy people are unhappy and will complain noatter what they do. When i joined as i pirate because when i played potbs the pirates most certainly where " unique and special " compared to the nationals.

They where so special that in a fight they always won unless they was fastly lower level. It was so much fun being demasted in about 3 shots and being run down by invisible piratrs and no way in the world to escape them.

In fact it was so much fun having a super faction like the pirates , who lacked proper ability to take ports, to all gather in massive numbers and keep the capital city and all important cites blockaded 24/7 exept on cooldowns.

Thats why i rolled rat here was so i could be special and have unique gameplay. Wish i could have it cuz having 2 ports left and being kill on sight to all players is to much EZ mode.

Please make me special.

[Long Beard]

Sounds like PVP1 & PVP2 have two very different pirate situations going on. 

 

I wonder how PVP2 would be if things were made more difficult for pirates mechanically?

[KrakkenSmacken]

Sounds like PVP1 & PVP2 have two very different pirate situations going on. 

 

I wonder how PVP2 would be if things were made more difficult for pirates mechanically?

 

The problem with most "more difficult" suggestions, is there is not enough detail in the counter mechanic to make them true "differences in kind", which is what I would expect from a pirate "kind".

 

 

If they made it really more difficult, I expect that very few people would play pirate, especially new players. The exodus from being a pirate would intensify, possibly to the point of nobody being a pirate.

 

This would reduce the enjoyment of the US and GB to sandwich us between them, upsetting the three front war and turning in more into a two front war.  This would/could probably cause a splinter of those nations into the small nations, and at some point the exact same identical balance would be achieved with a different set of national titles, pirates omitted.

 

That's my guess.