Cragger Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 The current durability system works and personally I'd even extend it to give smaller 'unrates' 7 durability and sixth rates 6 durability since the return on investment of notes consumed for the same durability of a 5th rate is a negative for an exceptional one. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hethwill Posted March 7, 2016 Share Posted March 7, 2016 The current durability system works and personally I'd even extend it to give smaller 'unrates' 7 durability and sixth rates 6 durability since the return on investment of notes consumed for the same durability of a 5th rate is a negative for an exceptional one. Yes it would be beneficial IF the crafting notes system would be final, which is not the case as it will be reviewed and adjusted by rate. If anything 1st and 2nd rates 1 dura, 3rd and 4th 3 dura, rest 5 is fine. Would simply remove the Free cutters from any possibility of pvp gain of xp and credits. It really doesn't matter that they have 5 duras, they are immortal sponges of xp and creds without any risk of loss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrakkenSmacken Posted March 7, 2016 Share Posted March 7, 2016 Yes it would be beneficial IF the crafting notes system would be final, which is not the case as it will be reviewed and adjusted by rate. If anything 1st and 2nd rates 1 dura, 3rd and 4th 3 dura, rest 5 is fine. Would simply remove the Free cutters from any possibility of pvp gain of xp and credits. It really doesn't matter that they have 5 duras, they are immortal sponges of xp and creds without any risk of loss So how exactly would a level 1 new character get XP and credits if not in a free cutter? How is a free but very low powered ship unbalancing anything? I think you are talking from the point of view of someone who has already built up enough to never actually drive one, not a new player who still has to figure out how to play the game. I also disagree that any ship should be made with 1 dura only. Every dura you would remove would multiply the effective cost of building it. The Devs said they tried it already, and it sucked, so why the step backwards? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surfimp Posted March 7, 2016 Share Posted March 7, 2016 (edited) Of course, if you want to experience single durability gameplay, it's possible right now without changing anything. For my part, I only sail captured ships, so "it's all on the line" for me everytime I leave port. I spend time building up a supply of additional ships by raiding NPC fleets, or trying to get them from player characters when possible. It can be devastating to lose one of the "not so bad" ships (i.e. a Common one that might have 3 regular upgrade spots... I know, right?). But that's OK, you can get another with a bit more time and effort. With outpost capacity being what it is, this means I have to work much harder for the equivalent of 5 durabilities, and each of those ships will have different capabilities and each require their own, often redundant upgrades. It's basically the least efficient and low-powered way to play the game, but I don't mind because: IT'S FUN! Edited March 7, 2016 by surfimp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Tabernac Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 So how exactly would a level 1 new character get XP and credits if not in a free cutter? How is a free but very low powered ship unbalancing anything? I think you are talking from the point of view of someone who has already built up enough to never actually drive one, not a new player who still has to figure out how to play the game. I think Hethwill's coming more from the point of view that the free Basic Cutters have been used extensively in swarms against other ships expressly because they cost nothing to repair or replace and so offer 100% return for all XP and gold earned, whereas the damage they cause must be paid for by the target. This can be viewed as exploiting the use of the free ship beyond its intended purpose which is, as you noted, to help brand new players get out and level. His suggestion is that they not be used specifically for PvP, which would still allow their use in mission running or AI fleet hunting, which is excellent practice for said level 1 new character. There've been many suggestions on ways to accommodate them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrakkenSmacken Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 I think Hethwill's coming more from the point of view that the free Basic Cutters have been used extensively in swarms against other ships expressly because they cost nothing to repair or replace and so offer 100% return for all XP and gold earned, whereas the damage they cause must be paid for by the target. This can be viewed as exploiting the use of the free ship beyond its intended purpose which is, as you noted, to help brand new players get out and level. His suggestion is that they not be used specifically for PvP, which would still allow their use in mission running or AI fleet hunting, which is excellent practice for said level 1 new character. There've been many suggestions on ways to accommodate them. "specifically for PvP" has so many permutations and possible gaps it would be difficult to call it consistent, while locking out new players from what is arguably the point of the game. Just a few possible problems. Bring a cutter into a AI fight, now it is closed to enemies. Always keep a cutter close by, and suddenly fleets become immune to pvp. A better way is to make it actually cost something, just not the usual something. This is the rule I would put into play. After reaching level 4, a basic cutter can only be purchased at a port with no other ship (so you can never be stranded), is automatically destroyed if you dock at a port that has another ship in it dock another ship where it lives. ("Trade" class ships exempt from this limitation.) This way if you are dedicated to the cutter swarm, you are absolutely dedicated to the cutter, and are basically acting like a new player, or have paid a rather significant and annoying logistical price to keep playing that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cragger Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 (edited) Trust us, it's been tested before NA was on steam of having no durability. Removing durability makes people even more reluctant to fight and pushes the game even further into the gank or be ganked domain exclusively. Edited July 19, 2016 by Cragger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maturin Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 Trust us, it's been tested before NA was on steam of having no durability. Not with the OW, it wasn't. Hasn't been tested since I started in early 2014. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prater Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 I like the idea of all ships getting the durability of their rate, not just the 1-5th rates. Give 6th rates 6 duras and 7th rates 7 duras. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cragger Posted July 19, 2016 Share Posted July 19, 2016 Not with the OW, it wasn't. Hasn't been tested since I started in early 2014. And you think OW would create less running then when ships where stuck in an evenly matched battle arena? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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