Why the Hell Runners-Nation win PB with just RUN?

[Reki]

Today on Fort Bai PB our forces destroy whole 5 towers and win fight vs sweden run-forces. BUT remaining run-forces start run and they make it untill PB timer got his end to prevent BR difference count. As i assume, they run into open sea. It was victory of our fleet, but we didn't get it beacuse of broken mechanic.

I can understand when attackers run from PB, but defenders?? Hell, NO. And they will do this again im sure. So what we should play? Race after Sweden each PB??

[Tomms123]

Viable tactic.

Port battles layout will be changed in the future.

[ErilaZ]

Agreed with the topic starter.

This is viable exploit, it is not a tactic. And we are not talking about the future - it is current situation, repeating over and over again.

The only purpose of running during defence is to save your fleet when catastrophy is inevitable.

Current mechanics is illogical because you need this port battle to prevent the enemy from bombardment and disembarkation.

When defending fleet is running away it is doing nothing but expose their harbour to the enemy who will capture the port without any opposition to stop it. While we have no land it is impossile to set up a blockade to prevent these runners from running. So if there is no place, let's set proper time! I understand that it is not good to prohibit retreatment at all, if ppl want to save their precious Niagaras it is OK to let them do it, but they should not gain victory for this.

My proposal is simple - when attackers' BR diffenence will be twice as much as defenders' or there will be no towers to defend the harbour the battle timer should count the time for attackers' victory. This will let defenders to decide - to save their port or to save their ships because you can't do both of this as they do it right now. Smaller circle after towers annihilation might be good solution as well. We definetely should do something with this as there is no ETA for land to be sighted.

Edited February 13, 2016 by ErilaZ

[Nathaniel]

The tactic is certainly viable but it wouldn't hurt to not wait for land and introduce some of the plentyfull restrictions that were proposed for that since dedember, like tying BR to crew and reducing the circle after all towers have beeen destroyed.

[Aetrion]

Sounds more like an exploit than a tactic. You shouldn't be able to win at defending something by abandoning it so that you can't be killed.

[Tomms123]

Sounds more like an exploit than a tactic. You shouldn't be able to win at defending something by abandoning it so that you can't be killed.

They're not abandoning the battle. They shoot balls/chains at their sails. When they get closer they start to sail away and keep shooting at the sails. They then start to huge the border. This is cause to keep the BR on the defend side so they can win it.

[ErilaZ]

They're not abandoning the battle. They shoot balls/chains at their sails. When they get closer they start to sail away and keep shooting at the sails. They then start to huge the border. This is cause to keep the BR on the defend side so they can win it.

Yes, you are correct. They are not abandoning the battle. But they are avoiding it. I still have no explanation how demasting with no towers and 2-3 BR diffenerce can save the port nonetheless. Edited February 13, 2016 by ErilaZ

[Reki]

They're not abandoning the battle. They shoot balls/chains at their sails. When they get closer they start to sail away and keep shooting at the sails. They then start to huge the border. This is cause to keep the BR on the defend side so they can win it.

And this is Exploit. Exploit of Battle Timer. Its Impossible to defend something with running. You know how russians got Paris during Napoleon war? Napoleon forces had done tactical maneuvre. They try to strike russian empire forces from behinde, but russian forces just move forward ant take what frenches try to defend - french capital. Doing same thing in PB is redicilous.

[Duskguy]

What I'd like to see is the towers guard the entrance to an actual land based port in which the defenders start in and the attackers much approach.

 

The port would have to be plenty wide to allow defenders to maneuver a bit if pushed into the port, but still narrow enough that defenders can defend/attackers can blockade to prevent constant running without losses.

 

I believe Voyage Century Online as well as Pirates of the Burning Sea did something similar, and it seemed to work. The difference was that those games required you to get to the harbor and fight a land based battle after a naval fight/race to the harbor. While in this game there is no land action (which I prefer).

 

If there were land in addition to the towers, that may work to limit the amount of running defenders. However, a radius for conquest would also help. Defenders/attackers would need to be within the engagement zone to have the BR count towards the win/loss with a timer once a BR advantage is achieved. It would force the defenders to be within a reasonable combat zone and actually defend and give them time to respond should attackers get the BR advantage for a minute or two.

 

Doing both might actually solve the problems of people sailing to the edge of the instance as it would force both sides into the combat zone to gain advantage in BR. If defenders wish to run, then they sacrifice the port. If attackers wish to give up an attack, they turn and leave.

 

 

Just some thoughts from the port battles I've seen in other games as well as this one.

[Tomms123]

Yes, you are correct. They are not abandoning the battle. But they are avoiding it. I still have no explanation how demasting with no towers and 2-3 BR diffenerce can save the port nonetheless.

 

Well that is how the system works now. As stated in my first post the port battle layout will be changed but this is how its now.

 

And this is Exploit. Its Impossible to defend something with running. You know how russians got Paris during Napoleon war? Napoleon forces had done tactical maneuvre. They try to strike russian empire forces from behinde, but russian forces just move forward ant take what frenches try to defend - french capital. Doing same thing in PB is redicilous.

Tell that to USSR during The Great Patriotic War

 

Not really. There is two requirements to win a port battle from the attackers point of view.

1. Destroy all the towers (3 in Shallow port, 5 in Deep port)

2. Have 3 times more BR then the defender.

 

Thus you need both to win the port battle making sure your ship dont sink by keeping the BR up is viable strategy.

I have supported in changes to the port battles, they have stated it will be changed but later as they're focusing on other things atm

[Reki]

 

Thus you need both to win the port battle making sure your ship dont sink by keeping the BR up is viable strategy.

I have supported in changes to the port battles, they have stated it will be changed but later as they're focusing on other things atm

 

So tell me, you play for Sweden, right?

 

I think that words in my quote is same as if you told that Kite it could be viable strategy, man. Maybe you want it back too?  We probably think about see fight as about two different things. Fight is fight. Race is Race. Sweden isn't fighters, they should play F1 simulator. 

[Tomms123]

So tell me, you play for Sweden, right?

Yes, Im the leader for IKEA.

Does this have anything to do with it?

No as this has been used by a lot of nations before.

[Reki]

Yes, Im the leader for IKEA.

Does this have anything to do with it?

 

Ofc not. Its like let criminal to be Judge in court over himself.

[Tomms123]

Ofc not. Its like let criminal to be Judge in court over himself.

I'm the decidor on this?

No I'm not so I'm not a judge.

 

Just state how it's and nothin else.

I want a change in the system but I know Game Labs do other stuff and they have stated that in its current form its just temporary.

[elite92]

Today on Fort Bai PB our forces destroy whole 5 towers and win fight vs sweden run-forces. BUT remaining run-forces start run and they make it untill PB timer got his end to prevent BR difference count. As i assume, they run into open sea. It was victory of our fleet, but we didn't get it beacuse of broken mechanic.

I can understand when attackers run from PB, but defenders?? Hell, NO. And they will do this again im sure. So what we should play? Race after Sweden each PB??

totally agree , exploit abuse should be limited NOW, stop changing mission reward every patch and start think to this things! THIS ruin the game not the 1k or 2k gold reward difference FFS.

we cant as pirates still not attack in group another single pirate because all my friends will join him as defensors and They think at IRON ORE or OAK LOG or somethin else.

reinforcement button still OP as hell... CMON DEVS

[Карл Лейфсен]

It's a time to open a new topic - "Sweden Olimpic games" or "Stockholm regatta". 

[Tomms123]

Wait wait all I see here is angry players from the danish nation. (Pull the same card you did )

You say kiting is not a viable strategy?

 

Im unsure if you're part of the RUS clan or not but I will tell you about the tactic they often use in battles both before and now.

 

When we have engaged them they pull a tactic which we have named "The snake", they form in a line. Follow with the wind and do the snake move (snake move is that you got left/right then turn the opposite way) this allows them to unleash both their broadside at us to get our sails down. I got to hand it to them its a briliant tactic. But hey if we shall go by your ideas Reik this is running to as we have done the same thing in port battles, you're just a bit pissed because you lost a port battle even tho you have several 3rd rates and players which can crew them. We dont have that many players which can crew 3rd rates but its raising for every day.

 

The word fighting is not something abstract, its not a fixed defenition on what fighting is. Its not "you stand there and take the punch even tho you're gonna lose" you use your possibilites to end up as the winner. Tell me if you were in a fight in a surprise and you meet 2 line ships which is slow but they have heavy battery. Will you go broad to broadside with them? I wouldnt because doing that would ensure my loss and nothing else.

 

So please stop pulling the card exploit. You want us to fight on your terms and nothing else because if we pull our "snake move" you cant do anything about it as same as we cant do anything about the RUS "snake move".

 

Karl please most times I have ever engaged in a battle which is close to fair you have turned the tail and run not us. Listen from a military tactic way this is by the book. If you cant see that you will win you disengage as fast and possible and make sure you have the odds to win. So please just schhh.

[Inkompetent]

I would agree that it is a problem (and I play for Sweden) since it avoids any decisive combat, but it is actual/correct battle tactics to fire upon the enemy without letting him fire back. The smaller Swedish ships are simply playing to their strength. The battle is still going, even though it has turned from a fire exchange into a skirmish.

And sure, by defeating the towers the port's static defenses are destroyed, but there are no mechanics in the game to land marines, which would be an obligatory part of capturing a port. Until troops have been landed you haven't actually taken the port. You are just blockading it, and a blockade can't be maintained if the blockading ships are engaged in combat.

The current mechanics are also the only way to bridge the gap between casual players and hardcore players. The game seriously needs proper mechanics to even the playing field between hardcore and casual players, but meanwhile this is one perfect example of good "bridging-mechanics". Even if one side can grind 24/7 by the players either being unemployed or having multiple people playing the same account their huge ships still aren't an automatic win. They will have to get into smaller, faster ships that can compete with Renommées in speed and deny the enemy freedom of maneuver (and as such the initiative), rather than relying on the massive bulk of enormous ships.

The massive ships certainly help in quickly bringing down towers and in obliterating any ship that gets too close, so they "own" a certain area of the battlefield in their immediate proximity, but it makes sense for a fleet to not only consist of line ships and to also include faster frigates, even maybe as many as half of the ships in the fleet.

[Fluffy_Fleshwall]

Actually I would like to argue that it is a GREAT mechanic currently as it prevents fleets from being formed with just the heaviest a nation has. It leaves excellent room for smaller ships like Trincs to fill a  role in port battles even late game. Similar to how EvE online does it with the significance of light tackle, you need a way to lock down the enemy to bring your big guns to bare. 

 

While I agree that this might seem weird in a port battle, it has been a common theme throughout military history to evade and delay you enemy until the odds are in your favor and that is exactly what I'm seeing here.

[mirror452]

Actually I would like to argue that it is a GREAT mechanic currently as it prevents fleets from being formed with just the heaviest a nation has. It leaves excellent room for smaller ships like Trincs to fill a  role in port battles even late game. Similar to how EvE online does it with the significance of light tackle, you need a way to lock down the enemy to bring your big guns to bare. 

 

While I agree that this might seem weird in a port battle, it has been a common theme throughout military history to evade and delay you enemy until the odds are in your favor and that is exactly what I'm seeing here.

 

Problem is that this is a defending battle... Means, if the defending nation brings a heavy setup, no other setup will defeat them than another heavy one, because they can then just camp their towers. So yeah, there are flaws in the mechanic. But I am sure it will change a lot when PBs get reworked.

[The MetaBaron]

Maybe use a bit more strategy next time, given the fact I am on the defending side I am not going to give you ideas. I'll just say... don't blame the game...

 

You can't just roll in with your 3rd rates and instantly win a port battle.

 

Good luck next time, I am sure there will be one.

Edited February 15, 2016 by The MetaBaron

[Карл Лейфсен]

...

Karl please most times I have ever engaged in a battle which is close to fair you have turned the tail and run not us. Listen from a military tactic way this is by the book. If you cant see that you will win you disengage as fast and possible and make sure you have the odds to win...

Tomms123, you won due the game mechanic. We came to fight and found a sailing regatta. Your fleet  protected a port, by the fight avoiding. Cowardice can not be respected.

[Reki]

I would agree that it is a problem (and I play for Sweden) since it avoids any decisive combat, but it is actual/correct battle tactics to fire upon the enemy without letting him fire back.

 

I'im sure it could be viable tactic everywhere in universe, but not during defend of port, which you just can't leave to enemy behinde. Goal of port battle is DEFEND something behinde you, not giving it to enemy with your retreat.

[Inkompetent]

I'im sure it could be viable tactic everywhere in universe, but not during defend of port, which you just can't leave to enemy behinde. Goal of port battle is DEFEND something behinde you, not giving it to enemy with your retreat.

If there was an actual mechanic to land troops and protect them during the landing during/after the destruction/capture of the forts I could agree with you. But since there is no such mechanic it is very easy for a heavy fleet to overwhelm the defenses. If the attacking fleet would have to protect rowing boats with marines making it towards land it would also force the defenders to prevent that from happening, and that would allow the heavier attacking ships another moment to play to their strength. It wouldn't matter if the attacking fleet was under attack as long as they protected the rowing boats.

However there is no such feature, and that means that there is no second chance for a lighter defending fleet to win (if there were row boats they could simply charge towards the defending ships to sink the row boats), so there must be some other feature to allow them a chance to defend. To stay and to harass the enemy fleet is the only thing that the current game mechanics support, and if it works for open sea battle it will have to work for port battles. For now at least.

I'd recommend Denmark-Russia to try to use skill and a more varied fleet for their attacks rather than relying on brute force and 24/7 XP-grinding to win as it is right now. Denmark can still easily outclass Sweden in heavy ships, but you can't rely on a fleet of 100% 3rd Rates, just like usually couldn't be done IRL.

Edited February 15, 2016 by Inkompetent