VarangianGarde

Sounds great! Looking forward to Alpha 2.

You mean like this? @Kloothommel "Cheap and cheerful," using whatever guns available from ships scrapped or never built.

@Nick Thomadis @admin Just realized this thread should go in the shipyard thread. Can you guys scoot it over there?

Gunboat diplomacy: Smells like victory.

Hey folks, I love the array of classes already available, but there a few others I'd love to see: WWII Era Heavy Cruisers: IJN Takao Class, USN Portland Class, KM Deutschland Class, KM Admiral Hipper Class, RM Zara Class, RN County Class Addressed. Thank you to the Devs for your great work! These CAs were generally Treaty limited to max 8" armaments (except the Kriegsmarine), and had a sleeker profile than the CAs currently on offer in the game. @Nick Thomadis I'm sure some of these are probably already in development, and the list is by no means exhaustive. It'd be cool to see this as another thematic element and as a compliment to advances in BBs from WWI to WWII. 2. Late Monitor/ Coastal Defense Ships: FN Väinämöinen Class, MB Deodoro Class, A-HN(KuK) Monarch Class, KDM (HDMS) Niels Juel Class. @Nick Thomadis Can you let us know if this is a possibility? This is a bit of a messy category, but essentially these were short range littoral defense ships deployed by smaller powers. Their shallow draft meant they remained fairly close to home port, but could provide significant defensive capability for the home coast. In many cases, these ships fielded heavy 9" and 10" guns. I think they'd make a great addition to the campaign, as it would make raids and gunboat incursions into 2nd rate ports not a gimme. Nick: Again, this may already be in the works, but hopefully this would add some mechanical depth and greater variety to the world. 3. Gunboats: KM Itlis (SMS Panther) Class, RNLN Jacob van Heemskerck, RN Bramble* Class, RN Insect Class, USN Wilmington Class. Same as #2 Probably an even messier category, but gunboats were power projection tools used by great powers.In terms of size, armor, and armament, they're all over the map. Often they were just converted civilian steamers, though they tend towards smaller caliber. Of course this only worked if these ships could access the global coaling network pr- WWI, and still required port calls in the age of oil. They could be used to establish a presence at lower cost than sending major fleet units. Smaller powers could also (and did) build them, but were usually very limited by range. Nick: This could certainly be a takeoff of the "Torpedo boat" class (some "Patrol Gunboats" were indeed armed with torpedoes), but the difference would usually be a larger displacement, more available calibers, and a greater range capacity. 4. WWII era light cruisers: RN Town Class, IJN Mogami class, USN Brooklyn Class, KM Konigsberg Class Addressed. Thank you to the Devs for your great work! CLs adopted a significantly sleeker look, especially characterized by flush decks, light belt armor, ~6" main armament, and rated speeds of 30+ knots. Crucially, these ships featured superfiring turrets, something very lacking in the current stable. @Nick Thomadis I've noticed that the 1926+ CA design could provide a decent visual starting point for CLs of the later years. Principally, I'd adjust the default speed to ~36 knots, adjust the standard armor accordingly (and keep the upper limit cap on CL armor), and treaty limit caliber to 6" (or 7"-8" for non-treaty fleets). What other suggestions do you guys have? *RN Bramble was actually equipped with sailing rig, though it could cruise on coal power for about a week when necessary. If you were to use an early era steamer of this type, I'd suggest just having the rigging be a non-functional combat liability in scenario, but it could reduce the maintenance costs and refueling expenses of the class.

This is a great write-up. Honestly wasn't something I'd thought about until you mentioned it, but yeah. Having the bulge added as a visual element would be a nice touch.

For what it's worth, I enjoy playing as if I were responsible for all the crew on the ships. Even if it has no victory condition value, getting a smashed up ship out of a bad situation is satisfying and adds an extra dimension to the game. Use destroyers to lay down smoke screens for stricken allies, lay down torpedo spreads, draw fire. It's actually a damn good feeling and properly emulates what a good commander should be doing. By the by, check out Last Stand of the Tin Can Sailors, if you want inspiration for getting invested in your fleet. Fantastic read.

@NiomedesVery cool. Did you choose long range and compromise on bulkheads? I can't get the cost down to 3 BBs, though I can whip up a decent 2 BB arrangement. In my experience, I've even seen 18" shells coming at me. I usually put that down to "unwinnable" and reload. Edit: I did, but with major compromises.

I did indeed go with highest possible rangefinder and radio, towers, etc. I equipped mostly 15"s and a single battery of 16", as that was all weight would allow.

After following @Niomedes armor uber alles approach, I did finally "win" the scenario. Everything I wrote in my initial post was the same, and I still had to grind through endless salvos before bringing my guns to bear at about 10 km. Effective fire really only started working at 7.5 km, and I actually closed to 5 km or less to engage with the heavily armored BBs. That isn't how I want to play the scenario, and I don't think its a good simulation of the way an engagement with a later stage Iowa/Bismarck type ship should go.

Exactly.

I'd be fine with it as a realism option. Personally I like the gods eye view of the battlefield that the unrestricted camera affords. Admittedly, it can be used to the player advantage, but I enjoy watching the profiles of my own ships come over the horizon from the enemy's eyes as well.

Good suggestion @Niomedes Replayed with 6.2" deck armor, and it made a big difference. I'd had deck armor at 3" in previous builds, similar to Pennsylvania class and of WWI spec. Bumping deck spec up to Iowa class levels made for a lot fewer major hits. That being said, I feel like the range criticism I had remains true. It's still unbalanced to slog through miles of salvos before you can open up in answer. Hopefully range finding, radio, and RADAR tech is boosted in further updates to give the big guns the advantage they're supposed to have.

I agree. As far as I know, if you select a target for any ship, then all available batteries will fire on that ship. It'd be great to direct individual calibers at different targets.

Fair enough, @Niomedes. That hasn't been my experience, though. Is there a way to build it so that you don't have to slog through miles of unanswered salvos? What build do you use? Here are the stats from my last playthrough: Unfortunately I don't recall the long range bonuses, but I had high base accuracy, excellent stability, no triple turret malus. I bought the highest grade rangefinder and radio available, and still had to slog through miles of gunfire. Here's a snap of the build I used. Four 15"s, Two 9"s, and a host of casemate 8"s and 6"s. Perfect fore/aft stability and all that. What did you do different?

As you can see, the formation has to endure about 18 minutes of fairly accurate bombardment, and doesn't even have the chance to fire until the lead contact is 7.3 km out. Hopefully you guys can work on this. All that aside, thanks for your work! I've enjoyed the game in 1 on 1 and small fleet encounters. I'd love to see major fleet actions improved.

Why does this scenario start with the enemy having superior sight and range finding? It's a major disadvantage that seems to make the scenario unwinnable (aside from cheating by restarting until you get lucky enough to avoid major damage until you can bring your own guns to bear). The enemy fleet usually starts out somehow having sight of my fleet at ranges of greater than 15 km, and I'm never able to sight them until around 10 km. Most major fleet battles of the dreadnought era featured kills at greater than 10 km range. I love the concept here, but it just seems like the scenario parameters need improvement. I would suggest making a "Improved Fire Control" perk in the mission. If RADAR and Computer Assisted Fire Control were introduced as an option, that would be a significant improvement to allow BBs and BCs to make full use of their long range heavy guns. Further, you'd really see the difference between ships equipped with it and those not. Historically, WWII BBs would open fire at about 13 mi/20 km. Here's a non-exhaustive list: Battle of Surigao Strait: BB USS West Virginia RADAR picks up Japanese BB contacts at 38 km, opens fire with 16" guns at 20.8 km. (Confirmed hits) Battle off Samar Island: BB IJN Yamato makes visual contact with DDs and CVE, opens fire with 18" guns at 31 km (Intially ineffective, with later hits at closer range) Battle of Denmark Straits: BB HMS Prince of Wales and BC Hood sights BB Bismarck and CA Prinz Eugen at 27 km. BC Hood opens fire at 24 km (BB Prince of Wales scoring several hits as range closed) BB KMS Bismarck opens fire at 14 km, inflicting a catastrophic hit detonating BC Hood's magazine. Finally, if the scenario were more of Jutland style encounter: Battle of Dogger Bank: BC HMS Lion opens fire with 13.5" at 18 km (initially ineffective, though salvos calibrated to effective fire within 20 minutes) Battle of Jutland: BC SMS Lutzow opens fire with 12" at 14 km (very effective, with two British BCs destroyed within an hour) As you can see, long range gunnery was very much a thing by at least 1914. Considering the tech levels of this mission, I'd love to be able to bring my BB or BC guns to bear at a more realistic range. @Nick Thomadis @admin