The Great Balancing of The 4ths

[maturin]

9 minutes ago, Fluffy Fishy said:

At the risk of taking this a little off topic, what's wrong with the 98 gun second rates? They are lovely ships, more agile than first rates, cheaper to build and commission and could pretty much do the vast majority of jobs a first rate could do, there was a reason large 2nd rates were so popular within the Royal navy, The Neptune class is so iconic too.
 

Terrible handling characteristics and often poor stability. Not sure how much utility being slightly shorter than a First Rate has, so far as agility is concerned. They were even worse for use in confined waters, given their windward performance.

An 80-gun two-decker has superior firepower with excellent performance under sail. And probably similar cost, although I don't remember that for sure. They have their cake and eat it too, even if they suffered from hogging issues.

The British kept their 2nd Rate three deckers around once technology had already passed them by, because they were so imposing in combat and a great reserve force for the Channel Fleet.

[Cmdr RideZ]

2 hours ago, Slim Jimmerson said:

But a 3rd rate being used to solo pirate OW, pretty laughable. Not that it IS possible, but that its the most viable way.

Mast meta is too strong.

Bigger ships have bigger cannons that can easily take out masts.

Bigger ships have stronger masts.

Question is why the situation has not been even improved yet?

[HachiRoku]

4 hours ago, Slim Jimmerson said:

Great. I think we're all in agreement then that the current Wasa should be classed properly as a 3rd rate, giving the less prominent (1-3rd) rate skill books. 

It will serve well as the light 3rd rate to the Bellonas heavy status and can keep most of its qualities. Only thing necessary is a BR raise to a fair 350-380 and nerf to its speed putting it more aline with the other 3rd rates, a -0.3knt in speed would put it .3 knts in front of the Bellona and the Wasa would serve as THE heavy SOL chaser. 

No longer will the Wasa overly interfere with light ship engagements and PBs. It will very much stay in its lane in terms as a light, heavy ship chaser where it belongs 

There is one issue with wasa and again I don't want them to change it. In a 1v1 a wasa will probable be better than a bellona if the wasa has a lot of mast mods. If you get behind a Bellona and stern camp him it can be an issue with 6 chasers. On the other had we don't have many trinco players doing so, so as a line ship we shouldn't care about 1v1s. If the wasa keeps its low mast thickness it will balance the ship vs bellona. That being said if the bellona has the same amount of marines he can slam on the breaks and has the crew to smash wasa in boarding before he looses crew. Wasa as a 3rd rate will be better I agree since I did not think of speed trims etc. I still believe we should be able to choose marines % but no more than 20

Edited January 22, 2018 by HachiRoku

[Landsman]

21 hours ago, admin said:

perhaps we should just rename wasa as GUSTAV ADOLF classing it as 3rd rate as promised
and adding the same ship with a different paint with wasa's lower  calibers as WASA 

I would like Wasa to be a 3rd rate that is also fast to hunt down other ships with the 6 chaser guns but nerf its sailing qualities, turnrate and armor so it gets trashed by ships of the same size and bigger....

[Landsman]

On 21.1.2018 at 5:42 PM, Fluffy Fishy said:

• To balance her, I'd like to see her characteristics left fairly as they are, but then change her armament down to 24lbs as is pretty standard across the 4th rate board, I'd also like to see her thickness reduced slightly to reflect the fact she by no stretch had the same thickness as the much bulkier built Agamemnon or Constitution. Ideally I'd like to see her reduced down to her proper 60 guns too, but that might be a big ask.
•  

@admin This is the best way to balance Wasa. But give it the speed back, so it remains viable in OW. ( sorry for double post )

[Sir Texas Sir]

23 hours ago, admin said:

indeed

perhaps we should just rename wasa as GUSTAV ADOLF classing it as 3rd rate as promised
and adding the same ship with a different paint with wasa's lower  calibers as WASA 

I actually like this...leave the GUSTAV ADOLF in game but move it to 3rd rate position with the BR and mods of the SOL's used on it.  Every one that has one in game keeps it as this ship.  Than make it a PvP reward ship.  Than bring the Wasa close to same ship with the down graded guns and maybe some stat changes and put it with the 4th rates.  We need more ships and this is one way to kill two birds with one stone.  The Wasa will return as a CM ship but being balance to be more close in with the rest of the 4th rates as the jack of all, but master of none just like the Hermione is for her class of ships.  She's not really great at any thing or bad either so she makes a great 5th rate CM ship for folks.