"Naval Arms Race" mod overhaul. BETA v11.4 - for UAD v1.5.1.6

[MasterBurte]

Regarding the engine stats i am always confused. Why is there a value "X HP per Engine ton" and "+-X% Engine Weight"? Isn't the % value obsolete since we already have the total weight vice versa?

[o Barão]

38 minutes ago, MasterBurte said:

Regarding the engine stats i am always confused. Why is there a value "X HP per Engine ton" and "+-X% Engine Weight"? Isn't the % value obsolete since we already have the total weight vice versa?

You and me are in the same boat. I have no idea.

 

[aexc]

Thanks for making this mod! Would it be possible to make 8" quad guns also available as main battery for BBs? I'd like to build the ships described here:

Also, could you consider removing the torpedo requirement entirely on DDs? Not sure how it would affect the AI but I've found myself wanting to build pure gunboats several times now to save on weight and due to how a single obsolete torpedo tube is usually more of a explosive hazard for the ship carrying it than an actual effective armament against the enemy. It also has historical basis, ie. fleet DDs with torpedoes that were expected to encounter and engage enemy capital ships vs escort DDs without torpedoes that leaned towards more convoy AA/ASW roles: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunt-class_destroyer

[o Barão]

32 minutes ago, aexc said:

Would it be possible to make 8" quad guns also available as main battery for BBs?

No because the minimum is 9" for the main battery. And that is only because the game starts at 1890. If that wasn't the case, I would bump the minimum to 10" or 11" to help the AI designing the ships.

 

34 minutes ago, aexc said:

Also, could you consider removing the torpedo requirement entirely on DDs?

Same thing, the requirement is there to help the AI in designing something useful.

[Fangoriously]

Those requirements for haveing parts like torps, or even things like secondary towers, probably any part really, the autobuild will ALWAYS build TBs and DDs with torps, and everything else with secondary towers, regardless if those requirements are removed from the player. I adjusted this a wile back for my personal use and there's never been an exception. The Ai doesnt run from ships as often if they dont have torps, thats the main reason i made that change myself, heard thats not as big a problem though lately, havent played in about 2 weeks. The auto build will abide by new gun size restrictions you mod in though.

[PalaiologosTheGreat]

Subs have been balanced well! I don’t have 15 DDs not sinking 3 subs anymore. Yes it’s okay I take damage, but they’ve been sinking subs with regularity. 

[o Barão]

5 hours ago, PalaiologosTheGreat said:

Subs have been balanced well! I don’t have 15 DDs not sinking 3 subs anymore. Yes it’s okay I take damage, but they’ve been sinking subs with regularity. 

Glad you are enjoying, but if they are being sunk with regularity and not sinking your ships, then it is a problem. But I will not touch them for the moment. 😁

 

EDIT: Are you seeing subs in simulated battles with heavy/medium/light damage, or just sunk?

Edited December 5, 2023 by o Barão

[diceman624]

Since the sub nerf, I also haven't seen nations spam submarines, either, if anyone had that problem.

[o Barão]

1 hour ago, diceman624 said:

Since the sub nerf, I also haven't seen nations spam submarines, either, if anyone had that problem.

That is most likely only a coincidence. I am guessing here, but I am almost sure the AI will spam subs when they failed to designs ships.

[MDHansen]

2 minutes ago, o Barão said:

That is most likely only a coincidence. I am guessing here, but I am almost sure the AI will spam subs when they failed to designs ships.

This is my experience aswell

[PalaiologosTheGreat]

6 hours ago, o Barão said:

EDIT: Are you seeing subs in simulated battles with heavy/medium/light damage, or just sunk?

Yes, I see them with heavy/medium/light damage on occasion. They sink transports and unescorted ships fine. 

Edited December 5, 2023 by PalaiologosTheGreat

[o Barão]

BETA v3.1.3 N.A.R. changelog:

• Updated to 1.4.0.9 Opt x1

[MasterBurte]

Japanese campaign: Research for quad secondary turrets on capitals doesn't do anything. At least on the yamato-hull i can't build more than triples.

[o Barão]

8 hours ago, MasterBurte said:

Japanese campaign: Research for quad secondary turrets on capitals doesn't do anything. At least on the yamato-hull i can't build more than triples.

The tech tree is universal, but in NAR only some nations have quads. France, Britain, America and Russia.

[Lucky Kadono]

is there a way to have the the primary and secondary guns have different shell and charge loadout ?

[o Barão]

19 minutes ago, Lucky Kadono said:

is there a way to have the the primary and secondary guns have different shell and charge loadout ?

No

[Morningstar]

It seems that currently we can get tons of armour, especially belt armour for next to nothing. Ten extra inches of belt armour adds like 1 or 2% to a battleship’s tonnage, tried in 1900, 1915, 1920, using NAR in the most recent update. Is this supposed to happen?

[Morningstar]

On 11/11/2023 at 6:38 AM, o Barão said:

Where did you saw a British armored cruiser with a 7" open turret? I searched and did find any. And the British 7" in the navalweaps are all closed turrets. Maybe I am missing something here.

Edit: sorry, didn’t see next page

Edited December 10, 2023 by Morningstar
Repetitive

[o Barão]

9 hours ago, Morningstar said:

It seems that currently we can get tons of armour, especially belt armour for next to nothing. Ten extra inches of belt armour adds like 1 or 2% to a battleship’s tonnage, tried in 1900, 1915, 1920, using NAR in the most recent update. Is this supposed to happen?

No. It should be around 3x times higher. +/- The Bismarck, as an example, had around 5k tons side armor.

But I can't change now without ruining the players campaigns. I will do that with the destroyer rework.

[CenturionsofRome]

8 hours ago, o Barão said:

No. It should be around 3x times higher. +/- The Bismarck, as an example, had around 5k tons side armor.

But I can't change now without ruining the players campaigns. I will do that with the destroyer rework.

Could you take a look at turret armor weights when you do that as well? They feel way too heavy for what you get. I think there's a turret weight multiplier in there somewhere.

[Morningstar]

9 hours ago, o Barão said:

No. It should be around 3x times higher. +/- The Bismarck, as an example, had around 5k tons side armor.

But I can't change now without ruining the players campaigns. I will do that with the destroyer rework.

Also 1 extra inch on the citadel is equivalent to ten inches on the belt, which is… odd.

 

[o Barão]

8 hours ago, CenturionsofRome said:

Could you take a look at turret armor weights when you do that as well? They feel way too heavy for what you get. I think there's a turret weight multiplier in there somewhere.

Remove the barbette armor first, only then you compare the turret weight to the real counterpart.

 

EDIT: I took a closer look and you are right, even without the  barbette armor still is around 60% heavier than it should be.

Edited December 11, 2023 by o Barão

[ScurvyLimerick]

I started a US campaign in 1900 and in January 1910 it said im behind on tech despite maxing it nearly the entire time and not using priorities. Is this by design or bug?

[o Barão]

9 hours ago, ScurvyLimerick said:

I started a US campaign in 1900 and in January 1910 it said im behind on tech despite maxing it nearly the entire time and not using priorities. Is this by design or bug?

 I never had issues on my campaigns with tech research. Maybe because you started at 1900 you were unlucky with the random techs in the beginning? I really have no idea.

 

[o Barão]

BETA v4.0.0 N.A.R. changelog:

---Major ship weight rework---

Important: If you are interested in playing the current campaign, don't update the mod and block steam updates to prevent updates from the devs. This update changes many things in how ships are build and will require a new campaign.

 

Many changes to ship weight and armor values in game to be as close as possible to the real world*:

*I used the data I have from the Bismarck BB as a reference.

 

• Hull weight
• Conning tower
• Belt armor
• Deck armor
• Bulkheads(1)*
• Fuel
• Citadel armor
• Torpedo protection
• Superstructure armor
• Turrets side and roof armor(2)*
• Barbettes armor

 

(1)*About the bulkheads:

The upgrades are much lighter now, according to the info I have from the Bismarck, but also some changes were made to balance the bulkheads:

• flooding_stop_chance,2,basic chance to stop flooding (every 10 seconds) buffed to 10
• surv_flooding_stop,20,percent additional increase of flooding stop chance (from max survivability) nerfed to 10
• water_spread_threshold,20,threshold of water level to start spreading into nearby sections (percent)buffed to 25
• pump_water,0.4,remove water by pumps from non-destroyed sections buffed to 0.5

In conclusion, the maximum bulkheads still will give many buffs, but I hope to help the AI if using minimum bulkheads with this simple changes. I hope it is more balanced now. Needs testing.

 

(2)* Main turrets should have a total weight value very close to the real world, however there is a small issue.

NOTE: To check the turret real weight, always set the barbette armor value to "0".

 

The issue is, in vanilla game there are 3 main parameters to set armor. One for main turrets, one for secondaries and other for casemates. The problem with this, is the way it works. The values are responsible for the armor weight, and the threshold when the armor start to be applied according to the turret weight. I understand why the devs decided to do this way, the issue is because of this 1 inch of armor have a different weight if being applied to a secondary turret, instead of a main gun. So in vanilla game, if you compare a 7" gun to an 8" gun, most likely you will notice that the 7" is heavier.

 

Now I spend many hours trying to find a solution for this, and at the same time keeping the main turret's real weight (I used the Bismarck and Yamato main turrets as a reference) and I got a point where IMO is good but not perfect. The issue is the 4" turrets don't have any armor. In real life, most 4" only had splinter protection, but still no armor for those guns if you wish. On the other hand:

• The turret's weight should be more close to real world.
• The casemates 3" and 4" are not affected by these changes and can have armor.

 

And finally the last big change. Armor limits modifiers removed from the resistance stats. No more crazy super ships with 31"+ belt armor and deck armor limits. These changes should help the AI in designing ships with more realistic values, but only time will tell.