"Naval Arms Race" mod overhaul. BETA v11.4 - for UAD v1.5.1.6

[Fangoriously]

2 hours ago, SpardaSon21 said:

You should use it as an upsized destroyer leader, so convoy raider and screening/ASW ship.  Can't sweep since its a CL, but by then you should have some decent DD designs for that job.

thats eventually what i went with on that hull, god's own ultra destroyer. 49 knots, 12 torp broadside, with enough 5in guns to shred anything smaller than it. I cant remember the last time any of my ships hit mines, the red circle of death is actually accurate for mine field size these days, i've never seen any evidence that mine sweeper actually work ever. I do find 1 excellent light cruiser for every capital ship protect them from subs about 90% of the time.

2 hours ago, SpardaSon21 said:

@o BarãoWhile I won't say no to a new hull or parts, I was mostly referring to the Brooklyn/Cleveland/Fargo series, and then potentially a super-CL akin to the Worcester.

thats what i'm sort of running into in the early 30s, my excellent but long in the tooth scout cruiser 2s

that are at about 10k tons just got obsoleted and replaced by that modern scout hull thats only half the tonnage. the modern light cruiser is also of a smaller displacement, and is ultra generic. instead of getting smaller, the heavy cruiser unlocks just get larger and more supper-er.

4 hours ago, o Barão said:

That is the Atlanta hull. That superstructure was never designed to support guns bigger than 5". That is the issue. And I am not interested in ruining the tower scale (already too big) or the guns size just to make them work in an unrealistic component. What I can do, is add a new tower component, to free the space for the player to add a barbette. So you can have 3x 5" in superfiring position, or 2x 6" / 7" in superfiring position using barbettes. 

 

thats a great solution, the tower without barrette, these guns are workable if given enough room. they are totally awful when you don't though, and only have towers with mounts, like modern light cruiser.  Haven't unlocked mk5 11in yet, but i know they will give me the same problems on all the heavy cruiser hulls, old and with new 1.3 parts.

the main problem remains that the model has awful firing arcs, and is not well suited for use on these smaller ships. It seems to be how wide and spaced out the barrels are, see its fine with a single barrel

no way to mess with that in the data files? just hard coded into the models?

 

[Fangoriously]

looks like the last update updated the english.lng file too, just noticed i can chose between krupp 1-3 lol. At least the guy who found the bug provided screen shots of the problem.

[DyonisX]

Holy hell you're insane with the speed of these updates

[Fangoriously]

ugg, it never ends with this frigin turret model

large cruiser, before mk4 15.9in

after mk4 15.9in

This is the biggest tower too, this cant be fixed, not even 15.0in fits. They are just gigantic in addition to all the other problems with this turret, they are WAY oversized, at every inch they should be shrunk at least 15%.

There is a huge difference in barrel and bore diameter between the 2 models, its not just the gun housing. i know you cant change the size of 1 or the other, and thats fine, both barrels and housing are too large. the only time these guns aren't totally awful is when your building modern battleship 2 or larger, any smaller hull is all but broken by this turret model unlocking.

Its so bad a problem the actual game devs should be the ones addressing it, but i'm pretty sure they got a single art guy anymore.

 

[o Barão]

7 hours ago, SpardaSon21 said:

@o BarãoWhile I won't say no to a new hull or parts, I was mostly referring to the Brooklyn/Cleveland/Fargo series, and then potentially a super-CL akin to the Worcester.

It is a similar situation like the Russian cruisers. I want to know first what is going to be added in the 1.4 update.

[o Barão]

4 hours ago, Fangoriously said:

...49 knots...

And how is the acceleration with only 18.5% engine efficiency?

 

5 hours ago, Fangoriously said:

no way to mess with that in the data files? just hard coded into the models?

We can see that there is enough room already.  The problem must be the hit boxes I guess, and about that I can't do anything. Well, I could scale the tower and the guns, but this method would give me unrealistic sizes. Tiny guns or gigantic tower component.

 

A possible solution would be to change the towers for that hull.

 

4 hours ago, Fangoriously said:

looks like the last update updated the english.lng file too, just noticed i can chose between krupp 1-3 lol. At least the guy who found the bug provided screen shots of the problem.

You can download the English file from the mod link. It will work without issues.

 

1 hour ago, Fangoriously said:

ugg, it never ends with this frigin turret model

large cruiser, before mk4 15.9in

after mk4 15.9in

This is the biggest tower too, this cant be fixed, not even 15.0in fits. They are just gigantic in addition to all the other problems with this turret, they are WAY oversized, at every inch they should be shrunk at least 15%.

There is a huge difference in barrel and bore diameter between the 2 models, its not just the gun housing. i know you cant change the size of 1 or the other, and thats fine, both barrels and housing are too large. the only time these guns aren't totally awful is when your building modern battleship 2 or larger, any smaller hull is all but broken by this turret model unlocking.

Its so bad a problem the actual game devs should be the ones addressing it, but i'm pretty sure they got a single art guy anymore.

 

I will take a look at those.

[Fangoriously]

2 hours ago, o Barão said:

And how is the acceleration with only 18.5% engine efficiency?

ships accelerate so quickly anyway it needs to be that bad to notice any sluggishness. A big minus to cruising speed too, but it was still a crazy 30 knots. Sharp maneuvers are hardly necessary at that speed you just enter and exit combat at will, but i did mean to put the rudder on that doesn't bleed speed as much.

2 hours ago, o Barão said:

We can see that there is enough room already.  The problem must be the hit boxes I guess, and about that I can't do anything. Well, I could scale the tower and the guns, but this method would give me unrealistic sizes. Tiny guns or gigantic tower component.

If you placed a single barrel turret there, the fire arc would be fine. if it were possible to apply the single barrel collision box to the dual and triple, they would be fixed. the firing arcs at least. hmm, if these towers were made more narrow, that might help, and it sure would be a lot easier to place torps to the side of them too. just need to be wide enough for funnels.

2 hours ago, o Barão said:

I will take a look at those.

This is just a real good example of the problem, the tower is a fine size for the hull, and the mk3 guns fit just fine, its just that mk4 model thats so oversized. Thanks to the quads using a texas like model, you can do easy direct comparisons of the older and newer turrets designs of the same diameter.

[o Barão]

2 hours ago, Fangoriously said:

If you placed a single barrel turret there, the fire arc would be fine. if it were possible to apply the single barrel collision box to the dual and triple, they would be fixed. the firing arcs at least. hmm, if these towers were made more narrow, that might help, and it sure would be a lot easier to place torps to the side of them too. just need to be wide enough for funnels.

This is just a real good example of the problem, the tower is a fine size for the hull, and the mk3 guns fit just fine, its just that mk4 model thats so oversized. Thanks to the quads using a texas like model, you can do easy direct comparisons of the older and newer turrets designs of the same diameter.

I changed the scale to all late guns. 6"-20" (Iowa guns model) So they should be more in line with the Texas guns. This being said, I didn't notice any improvement to the arc angles.  So I added new towers to Heavy Cruiser I, II and Modern Heavy Cruiser I. Towers that allow the player to use barbettes.

By the way. I can't make things narrow or stretch. I can increase the size or to make it smaller.

Edited July 5, 2023 by o Barão

[o Barão]

0.9.4.1 N.A.R. changelog:

• Updated to UAD 1.3.9.2R
• Improvements to late USA guns size. (Iowa gun model)
• Added new towers for the American cruisers: Heavy cruiser I; Heavy Cruiser II; Modern Heavy Cruiser I

[DyonisX]

I'm not sure if this has anything to do with the mod but I'll ask anyway since you're a modder and might know the answer:

This is my first time playing UAD so this might be obvious

Why is there like a 9-20+% accuracy debuff called "Day Time"?

It's not even the sun glare cause there's another separate and massive accuracy debuff for that

I started at 1890 and this day time debuff by itself is enough to overshadow any accuracy buffs I have and guarantees my ships can't hit anything.

I shudder to think what night time inaccuracy is like..

Also, is it realistic that there's engine vibrations even when speed is set to 0?

[o Barão]

6 hours ago, DyonisX said:

Why is there like a 9-20+% accuracy debuff called "Day Time"?

It is related to the light conditions. The darker it is, the more difficult will be to aim, to see where are the shell splashes related to the target to make aim corrections. And the light conditions will also affect the detection.

6 hours ago, DyonisX said:

I started at 1890 and this day time debuff by itself is enough to overshadow any accuracy buffs I have and guarantees my ships can't hit anything.

That is normal. The accuracy takes into account many modifiers. Positive and Negative:. light conditions; weather; waves; guns quality; shells; ship pitch and roll; ship stability base value; hull values; tower values; crew quality; radar; scout plane; target size

6 hours ago, DyonisX said:

I shudder to think what night time inaccuracy is like..

- 40%

6 hours ago, DyonisX said:

Also, is it realistic that there's engine vibrations even when speed is set to 0?

Unless is an electric engine, yes it is realistic.

Edited July 6, 2023 by o Barão

[antifleshnimbus]

Hi,

After playing a german campaign (1900-1928) in wich i try to build as hitorical ships as possible, I have some suggestions to make:

-chance the dreadnought II hull to that of the dreadnought iii (just the optics, not the Stats and displacement), so it is possible to recreate the kaisers and Königs with the right displacement 

- replace the CL IV hull with that of the CL hull of other nations (like the french scoutcruiser), so it is possible to recreate the Magdeburg, Wiesbaden, Karlsruhe type CLs of the imperial navy

- downscale the later advanced front Towers on the later hulls (dreadnought iii, battlecruiser IV...) so they Look less gigantic

-Chance the Modells of the 12inch mkii to that of the mkiii or make the mkiii unlockable earlyer (~1908, when first Helgolands where layed down) so it is possible to recreate Helgolands and kaisers in time with the right displacement 

These are just my Suggestions,

Best regards 

A.

[Pappystein]

So downloaded the mod for the first time yesterday....   Have been randomly keeping track of this since initially posted.   Looks to be a great mod.   Been playing as Spanish (New Career for the mod)   I too am a bit taken aback at the -20 "Daylight" modifier... on a Clear Cloudless sunny day.     But Beyond that...I have only found one point of concern.  I  Unlocked the Dreadnoughts today:

I have 2x Superimposed turrets technology unlocked but only 3 on the Center-line still?   Seems like the tech there may be a bit out of order (I would expect 4x CL turrets to unlock at the same time as 2x Superimposed, or before the 2x Superimposed.

Beyond these two I guess quibbles/concerns.   I am extremely impressed with how you are handling this mod.  Your design decisions have made the game harder to win at but easier to PLAY.   I don't have scenarios, often, where the AI just flees against an inferior force like the Core game does.  It has been fun to play and even though I have gone to war only 2 time thus far, it HASN'T been boring like core game can be.

Just when things seem to be going slow I get an event that makes me think and strategize.   something I can't say about any of the many un-modded careers I have played in this game.   Of course those are listed as things that have been fixed over the last few repair/hotfix patches.  But with this mod I have finally EXPERIENCED it

Thanks for making the mod and thanks for posting!   I am really enjoying playing with this.

 

[Fangoriously]

On 7/5/2023 at 4:21 AM, o Barão said:

I changed the scale to all late guns. 6"-20" (Iowa guns model) So they should be more in line with the Texas guns. This being said, I didn't notice any improvement to the arc angles.  So I added new towers to Heavy Cruiser I, II and Modern Heavy Cruiser I. Towers that allow the player to use barbettes.

By the way. I can't make things narrow or stretch. I can increase the size or to make it smaller.

This did help on several edge cases makeing things at least fit at all, especially for cruiser, and the new parts too. Cant solve all the intrinsic problems with the iowa gun, but its definitely an improvement, thanks for that.

On 7/5/2023 at 4:21 AM, o Barão said:

By the way. I can't make things narrow or stretch. I can increase the size or to make it smaller.

Ah, i know some of the newer parts added are clearly just stretched older parts, wasn't sure if that was done to the mesh or done when scaling things in the files.

[o Barão]

5 hours ago, Pappystein said:

I too am a bit taken aback at the -20 "Daylight" modifier... on a Clear Cloudless sunny day.

Imagine the sun path. A semicircle in the sky. There will be a point where the visibility conditions with the light coming from the sun will be perfect. In that case, it will give 0 penalty modifier to the accuracy. (NOTE: Both in stock game and N.A.R. will give +10.)  The sun is always moving, coming from a morning position to a sunset, and both have a negative accuracy modifier. That is why for the most part the accuracy modifier is always negative. You can have great light conditions, but that does not mean they are perfect for the officer using the firing director.

5 hours ago, Pappystein said:

I have 2x Superimposed turrets technology unlocked but only 3 on the Center-line still?   Seems like the tech there may be a bit out of order (I would expect 4x CL turrets to unlock at the same time as 2x Superimposed, or before the 2x Superimposed.

Same as stock game. I never look at that. Maybe some day

 

12 hours ago, antifleshnimbus said:

- replace the CL IV hull with that of the CL hull of other nations (like the french scoutcruiser), so it is possible to recreate the Magdeburg, Wiesbaden, Karlsruhe type CLs of the imperial navy

That is a good suggestion! I will wait to see what interwar cruisers the devs are going to implement in 1.4 first to know for sure what I need to do. But I can say that you will have the Magdeburg, Wiesbaden, Karlsruhe class in the game.

 About your guns' suggestion, I can't. There is a reason why the 11" model is one type and the 12" is another model. There were German BB in the beginning of the XX century that used the round model. So the only way to have both models in game was to differentiate them by caliber. This being said, the 12" Mk3 is unlocked in 1912, but if you focus on the research tech tree, you will unlock them mush sooner.

Edited July 7, 2023 by o Barão

[Käptn_Flitschauge]

Can you do something about land offensives, like slowing them down? It's far too easy for Germany to conquer all of Europe

[Deadpan_Alpaca]

4 hours ago, Käptn_Flitschauge said:

Can you do something about land offensives, like slowing them down? It's far too easy for Germany to conquer all of Europe

Objection: seems like your game was a case of bad RNG. In my game Germans carried out at least two unsuccessful wars with France and took not a single inch of land from baguette-lovers. 

Edited July 7, 2023 by Deadpan_Alpaca

[MasterBurte]

I am currently in 1937 of my 1890 japanese campaign. Regarding shipbuilding i found some things that need fixing.

1. It seems very random, what towers fit on what late game hulls. One heavy cruiser can only fit cruiser towers where another fits small paragon towers. It doesn't seem to make any sense in regards of the size of the hull and how modern it is. Same for the last two BB hull (superBB and the Yamato hull) where the yamato hull can't fit the latest towers. You can see the same phenomen on the sec towers which results in the yamato not beeing able to fit the big funnels.

2. The towers don't match in regards of their model, scale and values. The latest and biggest paragon towers are worse in many ways than their predecessors and not even worth an upgrade. When we look at the modern "main/secondary" towers, they have variants with more extendets barbetts the are just that. They don't have a different scale or anything. But from the stats they are even lighter and have worse values. They should just add weight, crew and maybe signiture due to the barbettes and be identical in every other regard.

3. On the yamato hull the front slope has it's mounts to high up. This results in the barbett or turret having a gab to the deck. We should just lower them, because we always have the option to use a higher barbett if needed.

[PalaiologosTheGreat]

By new hulls are they modded hulls/did you actually edit the 3D models or are they just taken from other nations and then given to a nation? 

[o Barão]

0.9.4.2 N.A.R. changelog:

• Updated to UAD 1.3.9.3
• Japanese Modern Heavy Cruiser II package updated to use more traditional components.
• Japanese Experimental Large cruiser hull rework to resemble more the B-65 design project.

• Japanese Experimental Heavy cruiser hull package rework with new components.
• Pagoda towers, some stats rebalanced.
• Japanese Modern tower II and I some stats rebalanced.
• Cruiser pagoda tower, some stats rebalanced.
• Japanese cruiser Main tower's damage control nerfed.
• Removed the American secondary towers from the Japanese Modern battlecruiser hull.
• Japanese Large cruiser package and some stats updated.
• Japanese Experimental Large cruiser hull stats updated.

Edited July 8, 2023 by o Barão

[o Barão]

7 hours ago, PalaiologosTheGreat said:

By new hulls are they modded hulls/did you actually edit the 3D models or are they just taken from other nations and then given to a nation? 

I work only with parts already in game.

[StrikerDanger]

Is there any plans (close, or in the future) to adjust hull designs that dont match their historical counterparts(the abrupt slope on the Yamato-esque hull, and the american modern BB hulls, for example)?

[Fangoriously]

28 minutes ago, o Barão said:

0.9.4.2 N.A.R. changelog:

• Updated to UAD 1.3.9.3
• Japanese Modern Heavy Cruiser II package updated to use more traditional components.
• Japanese Experimental Large cruiser hull rework to resemble more the B-65 design project.

• Japanese Experimental Heavy cruiser hull package rework with new components.
• Pagoda towers, some stats rebalanced.
• Japanese Modern tower II and I some stats rebalanced.
• Cruiser pagoda tower, some stats rebalanced.
• Japanese cruiser Main tower's damage control nerfed.

The already good Japanese cruiser variety made that much better!

On the non experimental Japanese large cruiser there's 2 sets of modern tower 1 and 2, and the 1 and 2 that weigh the least have massively better accuracy bonuses. Not sure if you touched that hull or if it a stock game thing.

while tinkering with the shrunk yamato hull experimental large cruiser, and trying to build around the slope, i got an idea. what if you took some of those big, huge, enormous and gigantic barrettes, and scaled them down until they had about the same diameter as the smaller medium barrettes? what you would have is a very short barrette that would work real well with the yamato hull slope. You could do the opposite too, and take one of the medium barrettes, and scale it up, and end up with an especially tall barrette for some bigger guns.

[o Barão]

5 hours ago, StrikerDanger said:

Is there any plans (close, or in the future) to adjust hull designs that dont match their historical counterparts(the abrupt slope on the Yamato-esque hull, and the american modern BB hulls, for example)?

I can't edit the 3D models. I can edit the hulls using the modifiers available in the files. Size, hull variants and how many sections the hull will have. And of course the hull stats.

 

4 hours ago, Fangoriously said:

On the non experimental Japanese large cruiser there's 2 sets of modern tower 1 and 2, and the 1 and 2 that weigh the least have massively better accuracy bonuses. Not sure if you touched that hull or if it a stock game thing.

That is the issue in updating my changes in the middle of a save file. There are no 2 sets of modern tower 1 and 2. I usually recommend deleting the save files to avoid these issues. Try to delete that ship and build a new Japanese Large cruiser hull. You will probably see only one set. Or try building a new large cruiser in custom battles to see if it works.

4 hours ago, Fangoriously said:

what if you took some of those big, huge, enormous and gigantic barrettes, and scaled them down until they had about the same diameter as the smaller medium barrettes?

I can scale down a huge barbette, but will still only be used for the big guns. The idea is interesting, I would like to see a scale down of the "Gigantic barbette", but I never found a way to make it work.

 

Small update to experimental large cruiser stats was released (japan)

 To allow the player to build the "B65 cruiser" design project goals, or something similar:

• 40 knots speed
• 3x3 12" guns
• Around 8 inch belt armor
• 5 inch deck armor

[Fangoriously]

12 hours ago, o Barão said:

That is the issue in updating my changes in the middle of a save file. There are no 2 sets of modern tower 1 and 2. I usually recommend deleting the save files to avoid these issues. Try to delete that ship and build a new Japanese Large cruiser hull. You will probably see only one set. Or try building a new large cruiser in custom battles to see if it works.

This was checked on custom battle, and at the time I didn't have a single 1940 Japanese design stored anywere at all, last time i deleted my saves was update befor last. This wasn't on your new hull, but the flat top large cruiser.

12 hours ago, o Barão said:

I can scale down a huge barbette, but will still only be used for the big guns. The idea is interesting, I would like to see a scale down of the "Gigantic barbette", but I never found a way to make it work.

I've seen the ai put smallish main guns on extra large barbets plenty of times, I don't think there's a limit there. There would limitations on what you could put on smaller barbetts scaled up unfortunetly.