"Naval Arms Race" mod overhaul. BETA v11.3 - for UAD v1.5.1.5

[o Barão]

6 hours ago, King_Tiger_II said:

Just a bit of a note, the french 457mm triple is gargantuan lol

HAHAHA!! Is going to be fixed. 😁

6 hours ago, CenturionsofRome said:

Why no quads for 13in and smaller guns for Brits, Americans, and French?

The Americans don't have a quad model for medium guns.

The British have a new model one that can be used for 4" and 5", and the same applies to the French.

 

5 hours ago, Pappystein said:

Can I suggest changing the Installation instructions for the Savex.json to be savex.json and savex.bin to delete the actual saves now that they are compressed?

Thanks to remind me. I need to update the installation instructions. 👍

[o Barão]

BETA v1.0.5  N.A.R. changelog:

• Some fixes and small improvements to the French guns tech tree. Still a W.I.P.

[Astor]

BTW I was playing around with the AI parameters more.

I noticed that these parameters work very nice:

ai_independent_range_away,5000
optimal_battle_range_mulitplier,0.5 (distance was 1.25 in the screenshot below, but 1.1 works too)

The independet range beeing closer helps to keep the fleet together and not wander too much away from the flagship division.

Here you can see the TBs staying at front harrasing, the BB slowly engaging, while the CL and CA stay close to it.

Edited October 26, 2023 by Astor

[o Barão]

9 hours ago, Astor said:

BTW I was playing around with the AI parameters more.

I noticed that these parameters work very nice:

ai_independent_range_away,5000
optimal_battle_range_mulitplier,0.5 (distance was 1.25 in the screenshot below, but 1.1 works too)

The independet range beeing closer helps to keep the fleet together and not wander too much away from the flagship division.

Here you can see the TBs staying at front harrasing, the BB slowly engaging, while the CL and CA stay close to it.

o7.

 

If you want to help me with suggestions to how improve the AI in combat, the most important thing is this:

 

approach_clamp,0.41,limit of direction/away approach angle for ship's far away,0.5 [0.3~1],,,,,,
approach_clamp_torpedoes,0.5,approach logic for ships armed with torpedoes,,,,,,,
approach_clamp_no_guns,0.4275,"same, but if too far to shoot guns",0.95 [0.3~1],0.17,,,,,

*stock values.

 

If you have the time to run some tests, and share with me your results, that would be great.

 

Please note, that around 1890 to 1905 +/-, many warships only have one main turret in the bow or stern so if you force them to sail in an aggressive angle towards you or away from you, they probably are going to use one turret and because of that they will struggle to get the range to the target.

 

"ai_independent_range_away,5000" it seems to low around 1930+ because of the long range torpedoes. But I can apply that and run some test for a while.👍

[Astor]

Yes, should be no problem to test those values too. Will do some further investigation there this weekend.

Sadly we dont have early/late game parameters for those values. Prominent example beeing the division distances and torpedo evasion. So we have to find a good middle ground.

[o Barão]

1 hour ago, Astor said:

Yes, should be no problem to test those values too. Will do some further investigation there this weekend.

Sadly we dont have early/late game parameters for those values. Prominent example beeing the division distances and torpedo evasion. So we have to find a good middle ground.

And not only that, we don't have those parameters being applied per ship class, which is more important IMO. If we had, I could force the AI TBs and DDs to be very aggressive in their approach, but to keep the BB in a parallel line to maximize the firepower. 

[Astor]

There seems to be one line in shiptypes.

"optimal distance for shooting at enemy (ratio of max distance)"

My guess that this is in relation to ai_distance_mod, but I could be wrong.

Edited October 27, 2023 by Astor

[o Barão]

BETA v1.0.6  N.A.R. changelog:

• Updated to UAD 1.4.0.4

[Syrius337]

15 minutes ago, o Barão said:

BETA v1.0.6  N.A.R. changelog:

• Updated to UAD 1.4.0.4

Wow, that was fast. You're awesome!

[Rui Matos]

Great job with the mod @o Barão!!! I just wanted to report what seems to be a bug - japanese modern heavy cruiser hull II has no available main towers.

Shame, cuz the hull is pretty cool. thank you for the fantastic mod!

[SpardaSon21]

1 hour ago, Syrius337 said:

Wow, that was fast. You're awesome!

For sure.

[Pappystein]

Suggestion:  Given better armor does not change mass... should the other upgrades out there that also not affect ship mass?   I am thinking about things like the late game Super Torpedo Protection... if you get the Hull protection to that set of never ending upgrades you can quickly get your ships way over mass and be unable to build them without stripping important late war items off the ship

Basically there is now no new technology items you can research in the late game to REDUCE mass but many things INCREASE it with the mod the way it is setup.

Edited October 28, 2023 by Pappystein

[o Barão]

5 hours ago, Rui Matos said:

Great job with the mod @o Barão!!! I just wanted to report what seems to be a bug - japanese modern heavy cruiser hull II has no available main towers.

Shame, cuz the hull is pretty cool. thank you for the fantastic mod!

Boas Rui, e que sejas bem vindo aos foruns.

 

The Japanese Modern Heavy Cruiser II have many options to choose. I am guessing two things here.

First, make sure to check the hull in custom battles to see if it is missing the towers. If it is, then it is probably because you miss some step in the installation process. If you see the towers, but you don't have them in the campaign, then it is probably because you need to unlock a technology. I suspect the latter to not be the case.

 

3 hours ago, Pappystein said:

Suggestion:  Given better armor does not change mass... should the other upgrades out there that also not affect ship mass?   I am thinking about things like the late game Super Torpedo Protection... if you get the Hull protection to that set of never ending upgrades you can quickly get your ships way over mass and be unable to build them without stripping important late war items off the ship

Basically there is now no new technology items you can research in the late game to REDUCE mass but many things INCREASE it with the mod the way it is setup.

It is not the same thing, IMO. From my understanding in studying armor manufacturing, we see an evolution in the way the armor is produced to make it better, however if we compare two different types of armor from two different eras, and if both have the same volume, then the mass will also be very similar. Please take this with a grain of salt, since I am nothing in the metal department. I am just saying what I read in my research.

 

Now, when we are talking about torpedo protection systems and other similar options, it is not a question of mass in comparison with the previous option in the tech tree, but is more about how the structure design changed to offer the better protection. This can involve more layers, or more space between the layers to better absorb the explosion blast, which needs the structure to be stronger to support, or maybe the inner hull layer is thicker.

 

I notice there was an update by the devs during the night, but I am not seeing any difference in the files that are available to me. Must be some bug fixing. Anyway, just in case, I will upload a new version in minutes to make sure there is nothing wrong with the mod.

[o Barão]

BETA v1.0.7  N.A.R. changelog:

• A quiet update to prevent any possible issues, with the current update release by devs. Maybe not needed.

[Deadpan_Alpaca]

Well, the repeatable techs increasing weight of existing ship projects is still weird gamedesign - rendering ships useless and constantly forcing players to rebuild the ship - saving weight here and there. A bit counter-intuitive thing to do - considering the assumption that new designs should be better thought hensewhy efficient.

[o Barão]

1 hour ago, Deadpan_Alpaca said:

Well, the repeatable techs increasing weight of existing ship projects is still weird gamedesign - rendering ships useless and constantly forcing players to rebuild the ship - saving weight here and there. A bit counter-intuitive thing to do - considering the assumption that new designs should be better thought hensewhy efficient.

Yes I agree. And the player can't choose if he wants or not. I will take a look at the "technologies" file. Maybe is possible to remove the weight parameters.

[o Barão]

BETA v1.0.8 N.A.R. changelog:

• Removed the weight gains for "super torpedo protection". Maybe needs a new campaign to work.

[Pappystein]

3 hours ago, o Barão said:

BETA v1.0.8 N.A.R. changelog:

• Removed the weight gains for "super torpedo protection". Maybe needs a new campaign to work.

THANKS for this!

 

I haven't unlocked all the "Super Tech" bonuses yet I think one dealing with Gunnery does the same thing to turrets (which is weird since for example the US 16"/50 of the Iowas is actually almost exactly same overall mass (turret, barrels and hoists) as the 16"/45s from the Sodaks.   The only real mass difference between the two is the larger powder-bags and the shot itself which does dramatically increase the mass of the Iowa's turret. (going from memory here, I haven't had Friedman's US Battleship book opened in 5 or 6 years... too busy reading the white case bound reprints I could never afford as a kid.  (When are we getting an update and reprint on the US Amphibious forces Dr Friedman and USNI??!??! )

If I find others I will report as well.

6 hours ago, o Barão said:

It is not the same thing, IMO. From my understanding in studying armor manufacturing, we see an evolution in the way the armor is produced to make it better, however if we compare two different types of armor from two different eras, and if both have the same volume, then the mass will also be very similar. Please take this with a grain of salt, since I am nothing in the metal department. I am just saying what I read in my research.

There ARE slight mass changes from one type to the other... But A) quality control comes into play here... IIRC the USS Nevada's armor is listed as a hodge-podge of different qualities of manufacture for example.   It is really in the US, not until the NorCals that the Armor production quality control was good enough to say the armor actually met the standards as laid out by BuOrd.   And more importantly B From one country to the next, standards for the same type of armor varied wildly.

So I think you take the correct over all approach to how to deal with the armor...  BTW I love the regional armors you have included in 1.x

My concern is for example Torpedo Protection.   It should be a select-able upgrade not a forced update.   Same is true for almost all of the non Tactics Super functions.  I think it was a poor design choice to have them auto enhance and instead should either be eliminated completely or maybe a 6th round of Upgrades be invented (I doubt that is something easy to do because of needing additional iconography)     But hey,  Just my opinion.

[basedana]

I wonder why sloped armor reduces armor weight, rather than increasing it's quality.

Because angling a plate of armor doesn't make it lighter, it makes it more efficient.

Edited October 28, 2023 by basedana

[o Barão]

12 minutes ago, basedana said:

I wonder why sloped armor reduces armor weight, rather than increasing it's quality.

Because angling a plate of armor doesn't make it lighter, it makes it more efficient.

Where are you seeing this?

[Syrius337]

The latest download link has no resource.assets in it. At least not for me.
Edit: OK, it's fine now. I was probably trying to download as you were uploading it.

Edited October 28, 2023 by Syrius337

[o Barão]

BETA v1.0.9 N.A.R. changelog:

• Updated to UAD 1.4.0.4R

[basedana]

within the technology tab, within armor forging

 

[CenturionsofRome]

Uh, armor quality techs are now reducing armor weight. I just reinstalled the mod in case it was an error with the installation on my end to check. Is that supposed to happen given that wasn't a thing in the previous version of the mod?

B-CA reduces armor weight by 50% and has a strength value of 145%

Edited October 28, 2023 by CenturionsofRome

[o Barão]

18 minutes ago, basedana said:

within the technology tab, within armor forging

 

Ah, I see. Well, you are right. I think the issue here is probably because it is not possible to increase the armor quality in specific areas, so instead by lowering the weight you can have more freedom to use more to get the same benefit in the end. Just guessing.

Just now, CenturionsofRome said:

Uh, armor quality techs are now reducing armor weight. I just reinstalled the mod in case it was an error with the instalation on my end to check. Is that supposed to happen given that wasn't a thing in the previous version of the mod?

Shit. I made a mistake. I will upload a new version in a few minutes.