"Naval Arms Race" mod overhaul. BETA v11.2 - for UAD v1.5.1.3

[o Barão]

20 hours ago, overvaalmaaken said:

Hello, there seems to be a problem with Austro-Hungarian destroyer research. When researching 1100 ton Destroyer it doesn't unlock any hulls, but says it'll unlock Destroyer II, which unlocks only at 1300 tons. Is there any way to fix this myself if you are too tired after so many patches? Because that large torpedo boat hull is very limited in its capacity and normal hull unlocks very late

The reason is the tech tree is universal for all nations, but the hulls are not. The destroyer II hull for Austria, France and Italy is unlocked at 1300 tons. This should happen around 1911, so 3 years after the first "destroyer II" hull is unlocked.*

 

*You can always focus the research tech tree to get it sooner.

[King_Tiger_II]

Why do 17-inch guns and up often just stop firing and hold fire at close ranges allowing the enemy to beat your ship to death?

[o Barão]

24 minutes ago, King_Tiger_II said:

Why do 17-inch guns and up often just stop firing and hold fire at close ranges allowing the enemy to beat your ship to death?

"...at close ranges..."

 

Because you are probably using small caliber guns with a big ROF. In that specific situations, if you disable the secondaries, the main guns will work again. *I am guessing here, but based on my experience with the game, that is probably most likely to be the issue.

 

It is a common issue from the game.

 

• The battle starts with both main and secondary guns targeting different ships. All working fine.
• At 0:57 I ordered all guns to target one ship. The moment I did this, the mains will not work anymore.
• At 1:25 I disabled the secondaries. Now the main guns will work again.

[Nick Thomadis]

On 8/16/2023 at 9:12 AM, o Barão said:

"...at close ranges..."

 

Because you are probably using small caliber guns with a big ROF. In that specific situations, if you disable the secondaries, the main guns will work again. *I am guessing here, but based on my experience with the game, that is probably most likely to be the issue.

 

It is a common issue from the game.

 

• The battle starts with both main and secondary guns targeting different ships. All working fine.
• At 0:57 I ordered all guns to target one ship. The moment I did this, the mains will not work anymore.
• At 1:25 I disabled the secondaries. Now the main guns will work again.

Hi Baron, this issue cannot be reproduced in the game without mods, at least not as easily as you describe. It must be related with some values of your mod which make it happen more often.

[o Barão]

9 minutes ago, Nick Thomadis said:

Hi Baron, this issue cannot be reproduced in the game without mods, at least not as easily as you describe. It must be related with some values of your mod which make it happen more often.

o7 Nick!

 

That video was recorded with stock game. No mods. I usually I found very easy to replicate this issue in game around 1930 - 1950 when we have access to the quick firing 2".

 

 

[Fangoriously]

17 minutes ago, Nick Thomadis said:

Hi Baron, this issue cannot be reproduced in the game without mods, at least not as easily as you describe. It must be related with some values of your mod which make it happen more often.

The last ship I built that had this issue was a light cruiser that had both 3.9in and 1.9in secondary guns, both mk5 tech so each had a high rate of fire, the 1.9 extremely fast. Whenever the 1.9 were in range of a target the 3.9s would just shut down for the most part, unless they on thier own opted for another target. The 1.9 would sometimes shut the 7.9 main guns down too.

This latest example was from a moded game but I've seen similar in the past in the stock game. To reproduce build a ship with like short barrel 1.1in ultra fast firing guns, and have like 3 other types of secondary also, you will surly be able to reproduce this then in the stock game. Try it on a less than top notch computer too.

Edited August 18, 2023 by Fangoriously

[Nick Thomadis]

14 minutes ago, o Barão said:

o7 Nick!

 

That video was recorded with stock game. No mods. I usually I found very easy to replicate this issue in game around 1930 - 1950 when we have access to the quick firing 2".

 

 

The color tone is different, seems a visual mod is on. Anyways, it is something that happens not often or at all in the core game, I hope you can reproduce with all mods inactive, meaning everything is disabled, deleted, and nothing is activated which could affect in any way the DLL files of the game.

[Nick Thomadis]

15 minutes ago, Fangoriously said:

The last ship I built that had this issue was a light cruiser that had both 3.9in and 1.9in secondary guns, both mk5 tech so each had a high rate of fire, the 1.9 extremely fast. Whenever the 1.9 were in range of a target the 3.9s would just shut down for the most part, unless they on thier own opted for another target. The 1.9 would sometimes shut the 7.9 main guns down too.

This latest example was from a moded game but I've seen similar in the past in the stock game. To reproduce build a ship with like short barrel 1.1in ultra fast firing guns, and have like 3 other types of secondary also, you will surly be able to reproduce this then in the stock game. Try it on a less than top notch computer too.

Thank you. We will try that.

[o Barão]

32 minutes ago, Nick Thomadis said:

The color tone is different, seems a visual mod is on. Anyways, it is something that happens not often or at all in the core game, I hope you can reproduce with all mods inactive, meaning everything is disabled, deleted, and nothing is activated which could affect in any way the DLL files of the game.

True. The reshade visual was enable, but it should not have any impact. But just to be sure, I will run again the same test when I return from holidays in a few days.

 

57 minutes ago, Fangoriously said:

Try it on a less than top notch computer too.

 At first I also though it was CPU bottleneck issue, but In the recent weeks I mounted a new PC and I am still seeing the same thing.

CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 7600X 6-Core 4.7GHz c/ Turbo 5.3GHz 

GPU: RTX 3080 10gb

RAM: RAM G.SKILL Trident Z5 Neo (AMD Expo) 32GB (2x16GB) DDR5-6000MHz CL30 

Motherboard: Motherboard ATX MSI MAG B650 Tomahawk WiFi

[Astor]

Regarding the stuck guns, I get that on my system (5900X and 3090) too. So we can rule out that it's performance/hardware related.

For me it feels like the fast ROF guns take all the free "slots" in the attack pipeline. Ofc it's just pure guessing as I don't know how they coded it.

 

Edited August 20, 2023 by Astor

[o Barão]

On 8/18/2023 at 2:32 PM, Nick Thomadis said:

The color tone is different, seems a visual mod is on. Anyways, it is something that happens not often or at all in the core game, I hope you can reproduce with all mods inactive, meaning everything is disabled, deleted, and nothing is activated which could affect in any way the DLL files of the game.

I disabled reshade and removed from the game files. The battle starts with me only disabling the torpedoes and lowering the ship speed, nothing more. The moment the main guns and secondaries focus on the same target due to proximity, the main guns stop firing.

 

I run a few more tests to confirm that is very common to happen. And sadly it is. Sometimes the main guns can work again. Also, I was unable to force the secondaries to switch targets. If I could force the secondaries to target another ship, I know all guns will work. This issue only happens when we have quick firing small guns and main guns targeting the same ship. Around 1930-1950.

[eirinym]

I was noticing similar issues with the guns myself. Usually I like to have a decent secondary component, and I found success when I have focus fire switching as many ships as I can to save for both main and secondary armament. I pretty much always turn it on for secondaries, and it feels like it improves the accuracy and consistency of gun fire. That said I've only ever played to the mid 20s at this point.

[LongJohnSilver]

O7 o Barão,

First of all, I want to thank you for the mod, I find it very well balanced, extremely fun to play without having to compensate the vanilla weight offsets, and love the historical side it adds to the game. The amount of work you had to put into it must be unbelievable, and I thank you for it!

I love to play as france, I noticed that the Mk4 (3,4,5 in) guns don't have the quad turrets options anymore, which isn't really a problem, and is clearly more historically accurate. Though I miss the look they had in the vanilla game.

My question is; could you show me/us in which textassets file I can reswitch to the old ones? I am not very comfortable with all the modding side in gaming, and I have to admit, after spending 3 hours trying to learn how to read, decipher and understands the ressource.assets file... I am completely lost and haven't got anywhere!

You might had already answered a similar questions, I only found your answer with your tutorial on how to extract and change textassets files.

Thank you in advance, I really hope you can enlight me on this subjetc

Edited August 27, 2023 by LongJohnSilver

[Deadpan_Alpaca]

I had a couple of games where I tried converting to Soviet Union in 1900 start - so I have a question: is it really that good idea to have those kind of budget cuts for naval budget if communists are in power (same for other ideologies though to less degree)?

It basically forces player to skip turns for ~20 years to start doing anything at all, when GDP finally grows a bit. If AI faces revolution and goes communist, it is bad as well - less AI money = less ships to sink.

Maybe there is sense to "moderate" exactly those debuffs a bit (or a lot)? I mean, if we look at pre-war USSR, it wasn't building huge fleets because economic of the state in general wasn't that great but when it got somewhat better in 30-s, a big program of Ocean-going fleet was started and was interrupted only by WW2 - when more urgent priorities have appeared. Yet, ingame communist state (no matter which in fact) isn't constantly facing threat of enemy tanks rolling to the industrial centers - so there is little to no reason not to allocate a bit more money in the navy (in the game about navy). And if said situation with land war going disastrous occurs - well, naval budget cuts would happen naturally along with the province loss.

Edited August 28, 2023 by Deadpan_Alpaca

[o Barão]

16 hours ago, LongJohnSilver said:

My question is; could you show me/us in which textassets file I can reswitch to the old ones?

o7!

One important thing first that I need to mention. In the "partsModels" there is no 5" quad guns for France. If you want a 5" quad gun for France, you will need to create it first. Just search for "QUAD GUNS FRANCE" inside the file to take you to the right location.

 

Now, how to enable 3" and the 4" quad guns for France.

Open the "parts" file and scroll all the way down until you see this information on screen.

 

- In the gun_3_x4 you will need to add france. Like this:

gun_3_x4,,gun,Gun,,-1,-1,,10,(custom),,,"free, center, side, barbette","france, russia",quad,size(0.75),76,3,4,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

 

- And you will also need to add this line below to enable 4" quad guns for france.

gun_4_x4,,gun,Gun,,-1,-1,,11,(custom),,,"free, center, side, barbette",france,quad,size(1),102,4,4,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

 

4 hours ago, Deadpan_Alpaca said:

 

Maybe there is sense to "moderate" exactly those debuffs a bit (or a lot)? I mean, if we look at pre-war USSR, it wasn't building huge fleets because economic of the state in general wasn't that great but when it got somewhat better in 30-s, a big program of Ocean-going fleet was started and was interrupted only by WW2 - when more urgent priorities have appeared.going disastrous occurs - well, naval budget cuts would happen naturally along with the province loss.

 

This video in particular from Drachinifel talks about the issues the soviets had in trying to build a navy. You probably will find this very interesting. But still after watching the video, if you think the soviets still needs a navy budget buff, then you can simply edit the values from the "governmentMod" inside the resource.assets.

[Deadpan_Alpaca]

2 hours ago, o Barão said:

 

This video in particular from Drachinifel talks about the issues the soviets had in trying to build a navy. You probably will find this very interesting. But still after watching the video, if you think the soviets still needs a navy budget buff, then you can simply edit the values from the "governmentMod" inside the resource.assets.

An interesting interview to listen, thanks. Nevertheless, let's agree to disagree - hardly anything of this was an eye opener - I kind of knew about problems of Russian/Soviet Navy. Let me clarify my point:

by ingame rules, USSR emerging in 1921 (actually it is not even "USSR" yet) is a collapsed state which wasn't present on the ingame map for a few years (Civil war) and then emerged and returned control over the core territories. It's GDP is inadequate, and so naval budget is cut - but nothing of this comes out of ideology. In ingame terms, Russia lost the war, Russia collapsed, Russia returned extremely weakened and took ~15 years to reestablish own naval budget to the point of starting building something serious. If something, communist approach to rushed modernization (running 100 years of development in 10 years) has shown quite a result - most collapsed and then reemerged states in the UA:D won't start building anything other than submarines at all because that's all that they can afford, well, maybe some TBs as well. 

Ingame China is quite a stretch of realism: it is a failed state with no navy, is in constant turmoil between 1910 and 1940 and basically should be a territory with a bunch of minor nations to be conquered by anyone. Should state of Chinese navy affect any of ideologies, it has at different start dates?

Ingame Spain isn't a case and reason of how constitutional monarchy and then "democracy" with nat.right regime can't have proper fleet.

Literally any nation can become communist in the game. Let's say, USA did - they lost a war and picked wrong options in certain events, and now they are communists. USA industrial and economic might, all those factories and dockyards, suddenly vanished in the nothingness? Or, let's assume, Britain did - I recall seeing them do so couple of times. A huge industrially and economically developed empire with huge naval traditions and huge navy suddenly decides that "hey, let's send these ships rotting and wait for enemies of proletariat to pick us apart"?

Soviet Union problems were coming from the foundation it was built on - Russian Empire. Hardly efficient agrarian inland empire to which army always was the core priority - and navy came second. You inherit geography- you inherit the problems. If something, absolutist monarchy deserves nerfs way more than communist party - if we are using Russia and China as the metric why certain regime is bad. Yet, in the game if I take Russia and never "reform" it through piling unrest, but stay absolutist - I would do pretty well. Sure, GDP of UK or USA would be just a dream but huge buff to naval budget would allow me to build a big enough fleet to project power in all four naval regions (Arctic, Baltic, Black sea/Med, Pacific). 

--

Still you are right, would probably try doing that myself. Yet, I would certainly appreciate some pointers - like, what program to use for opening and editing the .asset files?

 

Edited August 28, 2023 by Deadpan_Alpaca

[o Barão]

41 minutes ago, Deadpan_Alpaca said:

Still you are right, would probably try doing that myself. Yet, I would certainly appreciate some pointers - like, what program to use for opening and editing the .asset files?

 

Little guide to mod stuff in UAD.

1) download UABEA https://github.com/nesrak1/UABEA
2) open resource.assets in this location with UABEA C:\....\Steam\steamapps\common\Ultimate Admiral Dreadnoughts\Ultimate Admiral Dreadnoughts_Data
3) Filter to only see the text files.
4) export and edit in excel or notepad++ plus CSVLint plug in
5) import the changes back to UABEA and update the resource.assets file.

Note: because the devs are still working on the game, I recommend using a text file comparison tool to make it easier to update your work. "Meld" is what I use and works great.
https://meldmerge.org/?utm_source=Logiciels.Pro

[aradragoon]

First thank you for taking the time to make this mod!

Second I had a few questions I was hoping you might be able to help answer. I understand how penetration and such works in general and the historical values but does this mod also impact damage done?

I haven't had time to do testing on a large number of weapons and such but there seems to be some disparity.

As an example I am engaging an enemy fleet at around 10 - 11km with my destroyers and a battle cruiser while the enemy has TBs/DDs, CLs, CAs, and BB's.

My BC is running 12in/50 mk3 naval artillery (I think +10% length but I could be wrong) as the U.S. As I engage the enemy smaller ships my BC is hitting the DDs and getting in the mid hundreds for damage when landing a hit as it is an over pen. I then hit some CL's and CA's. the CL's I am getting high triple digits and occasionally low 4 digits (1000 - 1100) over pen hits for overpens and when the enemy CL is bow on I might get 3 - 4k damage.

The enemy CA's, which I thought would be different, are also generally just straight over-penetration usually. (Armor thickness is like 7.5 on enemy CA with +90%, so around 14.25in of armor when flat broadside. My penetration is around 24in at that range for main belt. I am going between bounces and over pens usually. I did manage to get 1 full pen on the CA that did around 3 - 4k damage.

Meanwhile, my DD's 5in guns are hitting enemy TBs, DDs, and CLs for hundreds to thousands of damage per hit. My own 12in performance was a bit confusing but it got more so as the enemy landed a few hits.

The enemy CA 8.1in over penned my DD and did 4k damage. I then had an enemy 15in over pen my destroyer for 9k damage.



All this to ask how the damage model has been impacted and why? Alternatively is the US 12in just impacted alone or bugged? Potentially the mark 3 specifically?

I know there are other factors as work as well so I am open to more information and input. Even so it seems like a 12in BC isn't well suited to deal with any enemy ship I am facing which makes me look at the guns themselves not working properly.

Thanks for any input you can provide!

[o Barão]

1 hour ago, aradragoon said:

 ...but does this mod also impact damage done?

o7!

 

Yes. Every ship class have two global modifiers that will have an impact in how much damage is dealt after getting a hit by a gun or a torpedo. In N.A.R. I made the DDs, TBs and the merchants more vulnerable to both hits by shells and torpedoes.

 

I also lowered HE fire chance probability. *Global modifier.

 

1 hour ago, aradragoon said:

My BC is running 12in/50 mk3 naval artillery (I think +10% length but I could be wrong) as the U.S. As I engage the enemy smaller ships my BC is hitting the DDs and getting in the mid hundreds for damage when landing a hit as it is an over pen. I then hit some CL's and CA's. the CL's I am getting high triple digits and occasionally low 4 digits (1000 - 1100) over pen hits for overpens and when the enemy CL is bow on I might get 3 - 4k damage.

The enemy CA's, which I thought would be different, are also generally just straight over-penetration usually. (Armor thickness is like 7.5 on enemy CA with +90%, so around 14.25in of armor when flat broadside. My penetration is around 24in at that range for main belt. I am going between bounces and over pens usually. I did manage to get 1 full pen on the CA that did around 3 - 4k damage.

From my understanding, you are using guns with too much penetration power against weaker targets. Good against BBs but too much against cruisers or even worse against DDs. However, against DDs the 12" are great if using HE, unless you are using incendiary shells.

 

Note, that there is a parameter that will determine if you get a overpen or not. If is double the armor effective value, then you will get a overpen. You can see this below.

over_penetration_threshold,2,penetration threshold over armor to over-penetration (ratio),10,,,,,,

 

But take note, that there are also two penetration randomizers. So don't go crazy about if you get a overpen when the UI is saying that is impossible, or vice versa.

penetration_randomness,0.05,small randomness of penetration (ratio),0.1 [0~0.15],,,,,,
penetration_skewing,9,"right skewing of penetration randomness, additional multiplier (0-9)",0,0~9,,,,,

 

I think it is best to post all damage modifiers here. It is a big list, but is good for all players to understand how complex are this game mechanics.

 

#,,Damage,,,,,,,
part_basic_size,0.45,fixed old issue: it is now a strict multiplier of part size for calculating dmg,10 [5~15],10.5,,,,,
main_gun_ricochet_chance,70,chance to richochet from main guns' turret,30,,,,,,
penetration_randomness,0.05,small randomness of penetration (ratio),0.1 [0~0.15],,,,,,
penetration_skewing,9,"right skewing of penetration randomness, additional multiplier (0-9)",0,0~9,,,,,
armor_damage_threshold,0.25,penetration threshold over armor to damage armor (ratio),0.8,0.4,,,,,
armor_damage,0.16,damage multiplier due to partial penetration,0.33,,,,,,
ap_base_ratio,0.6,The default AP/HE ratio for ship's shell rounds,,,,,,,
ap_base_weight_modifier,1.25,Modifier for AP weight,,,,,,,
he_base_weight_modifier,0.9,Modifier for HE weight,,,,,,,
over_penetration_threshold,2,penetration threshold over armor to over-penetration (ratio),10,,,,,,
over_penetration_min_armor,12.7,minimal amount of armor always present to track over-penetration (mm),25,,,,,,
over_penetration,0.085,damage multiplier due to over-penetration,0.33,,,,,,
penetration_1st_layer_reduction,0.6,Base Reduction of  penetration power after penetrating main belt/deck,,,,,,,
penetration_2nd_layer_reduction,0.3,Base Reduction of  penetration power after penetrating main belt/deck & 1st layer,,,,,,,
penetration_3rd_layer_reduction,0.125,Base Reduction of  penetration power after penetrating main belt/deck & 1st layer & 2nd layer,,,,,,,
penetration_turret_reduction,0.8,Base Reduction of  penetration power after penetrating side/top armor of turret,,,,,,,
barbette_armor_modifier,1.06,modifier to simulate the dissipation of shell/torpedo penetration after first hit,,,,,,,
barbette_extra_damage,2.5,Damage multiplier when penetrating barbettes,,,,,,,
he_use_threshold_low_anglemodifier,1.8,modifier for increasing the chance to switch to HE according to target angle,1.2,,,,,,
he_use_threshold_low,0.4,threshold of low penetration relative to belt to switch to high explosive shells,0.5,,,,,,
he_use_threshold_high,5,threshold of high penetration relative to belt to switch to high explosive shells,10,,,,,,
he_penetration_mod,0.2,penetration modifier from using he shells,0.2,,,,,,
ap_damage_mod,1,multipler for damage from armor piercing shells (guns),3,,,,,,
he_damage_mod,1.66,multipler for damage from high explosives shells (guns),3,,,,,,
no_ricochet_threshold,1.5,"n-penetration rule: if armor is too thin (n-times smaller than penetration), never ricochet",10,,,,,,
ricochet_angle_from,30,angle above this to side can produce ricochet (except he shells),45,,,,,,
ricochet_angle_to,50,angle above this will give maximal ricochet chance,60,,,,,,
ricochet_chance,55,"if ricochet is possible due to angle, chance if its happening",70,,,,,,
flash_fire_armor_mod,0.5,multipier to increase armor to trigger flash fire,1 [1~2],,,,,,
ammo_detonation_armor_mod,0.1,multipier to increase armor for ammo storage from turret's armor,1.1 [1~2],,,,,,
ammo_detonation_torp_dam_to_pen,1.75,"convertion of torpedo damage to penetration (multiplier), for ammo detonation",1,,,,,,
ammo_detonation_chance,155,ammo detonation chance (if penetrated),20,33,,,,,
ammo_detonation_chance_torp,55,ammo detonation chance for torpedo hits (if penetrated),35,,,,,,
torpedo_detonation_chance_mod,100,torpedo launcher detonation chance if destroyed,50,,,,,,
ammo_detonation_big_cal,24,below this inch caliber size ammo storage is much more smaller,12,10,,,,,
flashfire_big_cal,24,below this inch flash fire chance is much smaller,12,,,,,,
ammo_detonation_maxdamage,10500,damage that totally depletes the exploded ammo,,,,,,,
section_damage_ammo_detonation,1950,basic damage to section if ammo storage detonated,1000,,,,,,
torpedo_damage_ammo_detonation,400,base damage caused by torpedo launcher detonation,,,,,,,
torpedo_detonation_maxdamage,1500,damage that totally depletes the exploded torpedo ammo,,,,,,,
surv_ammo_detonation_dam_decrease,40,percent ammo detonation damage decrease (from max survivability),65,,,,,,
section_fire_chance_ammo_detonation,2000,chance for fire if ammo storage detonated,200,,,,,,
section_flooding_chance_ammo_detonation,2000,chance for flooding if ammo storage detonated,100,,,,,,
module_damage_chance_ammo_detonation,160,chance for module damage if ammo storage detonated,80,,,,,,
flash_fire_chance,100,"chance to ""start"" flash fire if can ammo detonate (but not detonated) (not explode yet)",20,70,,,,,
flash_fire_time,9,delay before flash fire explosion,30,30,,,,,
flash_fire_time_spread,7,"same, but for flash fires started from spreading",10,,,,,,
flash_fire_explosion_chance,110,chance for happening flash fire to explode,50,50,,,,,
section_damage_flash_fire,2150,basic damage from flash fire,1000,,,,,,
flash_fire_spread_chance_explode,110,chance for flash fire to spread if exploded,80,,,,,,
flash_fire_spread_chance_nonexplode,85,chance for flash fire to spread if not exploded,25,,,,,,
damage_randomness,0.99,small randomness of damage (ratio) (for guns),0.2,,0.75,,,,
damage_skewing,9,"right skewing of damage randomness, additional multiplier (0-9)",0,0~9,5,,,,
damage_randomness_torpedo,0.375,small randomness of damage (ratio) (for torpedoes),0.2,,0.3,,,,
damage_skewing_torpedo,4.5,"right skewing of torpedo damage randomness, additional multiplier (0-9)",0,0~9,4,,,,
section_damage_gun,985,base damage to section (from gun),15,149,,,,,
section_fire_chance_gun,8,basic chance of fire in section (from gun),10,,,,,,
section_fire_chance_gun_deck,12.5,"same, but special chance of fire if hit deck sections",10,,,,,,
section_flooding_chance_gun,0.25,basic chance of flooding in section (from gun),20,,,,,,
module_damage_chance_gun,50,basic chance of damage to module (if present) to module (from gun),20,,,,,,
section_damage_torpedo,940,base damage to section (from torpedo),70,275,,,,,
torpedo_dud_base_chance,55,base chance for not exploding torpedoes,60,,,,,,
torpedo_premature_explosion_chance_mod,0.07,modifier to dud torpedo chance that can trigger premature explosion of the torpedo,,,,,,,
torpedo_deviation_chance_mod,0.4,modifier to dud torpedo chance that can trigger deviation of path for the torpedo,,,,,,,
section_fire_chance_torpedo,15,basic chance of fire in section (from torpedo),15,,,,,,
section_flooding_chance_torpedo,10,basic chance of flooding in section (from torpedo),80,,,,,,
module_damage_chance_torpedo,75,basic chance of damage to module (if present) to module (from torpedo),50,,,,,,
flooding_mod_chance_from_damage,1000,"multiplier to chance of flooding, if section is fully damaged (linearly scaled)",3,610,,,,,
destroyed_section_damage_penalty,0.2,,,,,,,,
damage_section_spread_mod,0.6,multiplier for damage spreading to other sections,0.6,,,,,,
engine_hp_to_fcap,0.001,convertion of engine's hp power to fcap requirement (multiplier),0.001,,,,,,
engine_slowdown,90,max slowdown of ship due to engine damage (percent),90,,,,,,
structure_slowdown,40,max slowdown of ship due to structure damage (percent),50,,,,,,
flooding_slowdown,80,max slowdown of ship due to flooding (percent),80,,,,,,
surv_flooding_slowdown_decrease,55,survivability effect of decrease of flooding slowdown (percent) (from max survivability),40,,,,,,
slowdown_max_single,95,limit for slowdown from any single factor (percent),95,,,,,,
slowdown_max_all,99,limit for slowdown combined all-together (percent),99,,,,,,
damage_fire_control_to_pen_conversion,0.2,modifer of damage dealt to main tower to convert it to armor check vs A.Superstructure,,,,,,,
damage_con_tower_to_pen_conversion,1,modifer of damage dealt to main tower to convert it to armor check vs A.ConningTower,,,,,,,
hit_chance_conning_tower,50,chance to hit conning tower if main tower is hit,20,,,,,,
hit_chance_fire_control,50,chance to hit fire control if main tower is hit,20,,,,,,
conning_tower_damage_acc_loss,0.85,loss of accuracy due to damaged conning tower,0.5,,,,,,
fire_control_damage_acc_loss,0.7,loss of accuracy due to damaged fire control,0.35,,,,,,
fire_damage,0.33,base fire damage percent per second (to structure),0.5,,,,,,
fire_damage_part,0.1,base fire damage percent per second (to part),,,,,,,
surv_fire_decrease,65,percent decrease of fire damage due to fire (from max survivability),65,,,,,,
flooding_water,2.15,base flooding water percent increase per second (to water level),1,2.5,,,,,
pump_water,0.4,remove water by pumps from non-destroyed sections,0.2,,,,,,
surv_flooding_decrease,55,percent decrease of water from flooding (from max survivability),80,,,,,,
surv_pump_increase,50,percent of pumping increase (from max survivability),100,,,,,,
fire_stop_chance,35,basic chance to stop fire (every 10 seconds),10,,,,,,
flooding_stop_chance,2,basic chance to stop flooding (every 10 seconds),5,,,,,,
surv_flooding_stop,20,percent additional increase of flooding stop chance (from max survivability),10,,,,,,
water_stop_fire,80,threshold of water level (due to flooding) to stop any fire in section,80,,,,,,
fire_min_dur,45,minimal duration of fire (in seconds),15,,,,,,
flooding_min_dur,30,minimal duration of flooding (in seconds),15,,,,,,
water_spread_threshold,20,threshold of water level to start spreading into nearby sections (percent),80,,,,,,
water_spread_flood_mod,0.4,water spreading multiplier relative to normal flooding (affected by surv too),0.2,,,,,,
fire_spread_chance,20,"chance of fire to spread to one nearby section (percent chance, every 10 sec)",5,,,,,,
ap_fire_mod,0.8,fire chance multiplier for ap rounds penetrations,3,,,,,,
he_fire_mod,3.5,fire chance multiplier for he rounds penetrations,3,,,,,,
repair_module_chance,5,chance to repair module (every 10 seconds),5,,,,,,
structure_sink,100,percent to be sunk of structure damage sum relative to total structure,40,,,,,,
fire_sink,70,percent to be sunk of sections with fire relative to all sections' amount,80,,,,,,
flooding_sink,65,percent to be sunk of flooding levels sum relative to total floodable sections,65,,,,,,

 

In my opinion the devs are to be praised for trying really hard to simulate all possible things that could happen in the battlefield. The issue is for a player trying to understand why X happen in battle and not Y without understanding what are the modifiers behind the calculations and how they work. My advice is not to go crazy about how this values work, but instead use common sense that you got from the experience in just having fun playing the game.

 

1 hour ago, aradragoon said:

Meanwhile, my DD's 5in guns are hitting enemy TBs, DDs, and CLs for hundreds to thousands of damage per hit. My own 12in performance was a bit confusing but it got more so as the enemy landed a few hits.

The enemy CA 8.1in over penned my DD and did 4k damage. I then had an enemy 15in over pen my destroyer for 9k damage.

 

All this to ask how the damage model has been impacted and why? Alternatively is the US 12in just impacted alone or bugged? Potentially the mark 3 specifically?

You are comparing different caliber guns, probably using different shell types, some HE, others AP, some getting overpens, others full pen, against a variety of targets in a chaotic situation (battle). That is the worse situation possible to study the guns behavior. I strongly recommend to test a specific gun against a specific target (design the AI ship) in custom battles. Test to see at what ranges you get overpens if hitting near 90º, how the damage is being applied if using this type of shell or the other one, etc, etc....

Edited August 28, 2023 by o Barão

[aradragoon]

21 hours ago, o Barão said:

o7!

 

Yes. Every ship class have two global modifiers that will have an impact in how much damage is dealt after getting a hit by a gun or a torpedo. In N.A.R. I made the DDs, TBs and the merchants more vulnerable to both hits by shells and torpedoes.

 

I also lowered HE fire chance probability. *Global modifier.

 

From my understanding, you are using guns with too much penetration power against weaker targets. Good against BBs but too much against cruisers or even worse against DDs. However, against DDs the 12" are great if using HE, unless you are using incendiary shells.

 

Note, that there is a parameter that will determine if you get a overpen or not. If is double the armor effective value, then you will get a overpen. You can see this below.

over_penetration_threshold,2,penetration threshold over armor to over-penetration (ratio),10,,,,,,

 

But take note, that there are also two penetration randomizers. So don't go crazy about if you get a overpen when the UI is saying that is impossible, or vice versa.

penetration_randomness,0.05,small randomness of penetration (ratio),0.1 [0~0.15],,,,,,
penetration_skewing,9,"right skewing of penetration randomness, additional multiplier (0-9)",0,0~9,,,,,

 

I think it is best to post all damage modifiers here. It is a big list, but is good for all players to understand how complex are this game mechanics.

 

#,,Damage,,,,,,,
part_basic_size,0.45,fixed old issue: it is now a strict multiplier of part size for calculating dmg,10 [5~15],10.5,,,,,
main_gun_ricochet_chance,70,chance to richochet from main guns' turret,30,,,,,,
penetration_randomness,0.05,small randomness of penetration (ratio),0.1 [0~0.15],,,,,,
penetration_skewing,9,"right skewing of penetration randomness, additional multiplier (0-9)",0,0~9,,,,,
armor_damage_threshold,0.25,penetration threshold over armor to damage armor (ratio),0.8,0.4,,,,,
armor_damage,0.16,damage multiplier due to partial penetration,0.33,,,,,,
ap_base_ratio,0.6,The default AP/HE ratio for ship's shell rounds,,,,,,,
ap_base_weight_modifier,1.25,Modifier for AP weight,,,,,,,
he_base_weight_modifier,0.9,Modifier for HE weight,,,,,,,
over_penetration_threshold,2,penetration threshold over armor to over-penetration (ratio),10,,,,,,
over_penetration_min_armor,12.7,minimal amount of armor always present to track over-penetration (mm),25,,,,,,
over_penetration,0.085,damage multiplier due to over-penetration,0.33,,,,,,
penetration_1st_layer_reduction,0.6,Base Reduction of  penetration power after penetrating main belt/deck,,,,,,,
penetration_2nd_layer_reduction,0.3,Base Reduction of  penetration power after penetrating main belt/deck & 1st layer,,,,,,,
penetration_3rd_layer_reduction,0.125,Base Reduction of  penetration power after penetrating main belt/deck & 1st layer & 2nd layer,,,,,,,
penetration_turret_reduction,0.8,Base Reduction of  penetration power after penetrating side/top armor of turret,,,,,,,
barbette_armor_modifier,1.06,modifier to simulate the dissipation of shell/torpedo penetration after first hit,,,,,,,
barbette_extra_damage,2.5,Damage multiplier when penetrating barbettes,,,,,,,
he_use_threshold_low_anglemodifier,1.8,modifier for increasing the chance to switch to HE according to target angle,1.2,,,,,,
he_use_threshold_low,0.4,threshold of low penetration relative to belt to switch to high explosive shells,0.5,,,,,,
he_use_threshold_high,5,threshold of high penetration relative to belt to switch to high explosive shells,10,,,,,,
he_penetration_mod,0.2,penetration modifier from using he shells,0.2,,,,,,
ap_damage_mod,1,multipler for damage from armor piercing shells (guns),3,,,,,,
he_damage_mod,1.66,multipler for damage from high explosives shells (guns),3,,,,,,
no_ricochet_threshold,1.5,"n-penetration rule: if armor is too thin (n-times smaller than penetration), never ricochet",10,,,,,,
ricochet_angle_from,30,angle above this to side can produce ricochet (except he shells),45,,,,,,
ricochet_angle_to,50,angle above this will give maximal ricochet chance,60,,,,,,
ricochet_chance,55,"if ricochet is possible due to angle, chance if its happening",70,,,,,,
flash_fire_armor_mod,0.5,multipier to increase armor to trigger flash fire,1 [1~2],,,,,,
ammo_detonation_armor_mod,0.1,multipier to increase armor for ammo storage from turret's armor,1.1 [1~2],,,,,,
ammo_detonation_torp_dam_to_pen,1.75,"convertion of torpedo damage to penetration (multiplier), for ammo detonation",1,,,,,,
ammo_detonation_chance,155,ammo detonation chance (if penetrated),20,33,,,,,
ammo_detonation_chance_torp,55,ammo detonation chance for torpedo hits (if penetrated),35,,,,,,
torpedo_detonation_chance_mod,100,torpedo launcher detonation chance if destroyed,50,,,,,,
ammo_detonation_big_cal,24,below this inch caliber size ammo storage is much more smaller,12,10,,,,,
flashfire_big_cal,24,below this inch flash fire chance is much smaller,12,,,,,,
ammo_detonation_maxdamage,10500,damage that totally depletes the exploded ammo,,,,,,,
section_damage_ammo_detonation,1950,basic damage to section if ammo storage detonated,1000,,,,,,
torpedo_damage_ammo_detonation,400,base damage caused by torpedo launcher detonation,,,,,,,
torpedo_detonation_maxdamage,1500,damage that totally depletes the exploded torpedo ammo,,,,,,,
surv_ammo_detonation_dam_decrease,40,percent ammo detonation damage decrease (from max survivability),65,,,,,,
section_fire_chance_ammo_detonation,2000,chance for fire if ammo storage detonated,200,,,,,,
section_flooding_chance_ammo_detonation,2000,chance for flooding if ammo storage detonated,100,,,,,,
module_damage_chance_ammo_detonation,160,chance for module damage if ammo storage detonated,80,,,,,,
flash_fire_chance,100,"chance to ""start"" flash fire if can ammo detonate (but not detonated) (not explode yet)",20,70,,,,,
flash_fire_time,9,delay before flash fire explosion,30,30,,,,,
flash_fire_time_spread,7,"same, but for flash fires started from spreading",10,,,,,,
flash_fire_explosion_chance,110,chance for happening flash fire to explode,50,50,,,,,
section_damage_flash_fire,2150,basic damage from flash fire,1000,,,,,,
flash_fire_spread_chance_explode,110,chance for flash fire to spread if exploded,80,,,,,,
flash_fire_spread_chance_nonexplode,85,chance for flash fire to spread if not exploded,25,,,,,,
damage_randomness,0.99,small randomness of damage (ratio) (for guns),0.2,,0.75,,,,
damage_skewing,9,"right skewing of damage randomness, additional multiplier (0-9)",0,0~9,5,,,,
damage_randomness_torpedo,0.375,small randomness of damage (ratio) (for torpedoes),0.2,,0.3,,,,
damage_skewing_torpedo,4.5,"right skewing of torpedo damage randomness, additional multiplier (0-9)",0,0~9,4,,,,
section_damage_gun,985,base damage to section (from gun),15,149,,,,,
section_fire_chance_gun,8,basic chance of fire in section (from gun),10,,,,,,
section_fire_chance_gun_deck,12.5,"same, but special chance of fire if hit deck sections",10,,,,,,
section_flooding_chance_gun,0.25,basic chance of flooding in section (from gun),20,,,,,,
module_damage_chance_gun,50,basic chance of damage to module (if present) to module (from gun),20,,,,,,
section_damage_torpedo,940,base damage to section (from torpedo),70,275,,,,,
torpedo_dud_base_chance,55,base chance for not exploding torpedoes,60,,,,,,
torpedo_premature_explosion_chance_mod,0.07,modifier to dud torpedo chance that can trigger premature explosion of the torpedo,,,,,,,
torpedo_deviation_chance_mod,0.4,modifier to dud torpedo chance that can trigger deviation of path for the torpedo,,,,,,,
section_fire_chance_torpedo,15,basic chance of fire in section (from torpedo),15,,,,,,
section_flooding_chance_torpedo,10,basic chance of flooding in section (from torpedo),80,,,,,,
module_damage_chance_torpedo,75,basic chance of damage to module (if present) to module (from torpedo),50,,,,,,
flooding_mod_chance_from_damage,1000,"multiplier to chance of flooding, if section is fully damaged (linearly scaled)",3,610,,,,,
destroyed_section_damage_penalty,0.2,,,,,,,,
damage_section_spread_mod,0.6,multiplier for damage spreading to other sections,0.6,,,,,,
engine_hp_to_fcap,0.001,convertion of engine's hp power to fcap requirement (multiplier),0.001,,,,,,
engine_slowdown,90,max slowdown of ship due to engine damage (percent),90,,,,,,
structure_slowdown,40,max slowdown of ship due to structure damage (percent),50,,,,,,
flooding_slowdown,80,max slowdown of ship due to flooding (percent),80,,,,,,
surv_flooding_slowdown_decrease,55,survivability effect of decrease of flooding slowdown (percent) (from max survivability),40,,,,,,
slowdown_max_single,95,limit for slowdown from any single factor (percent),95,,,,,,
slowdown_max_all,99,limit for slowdown combined all-together (percent),99,,,,,,
damage_fire_control_to_pen_conversion,0.2,modifer of damage dealt to main tower to convert it to armor check vs A.Superstructure,,,,,,,
damage_con_tower_to_pen_conversion,1,modifer of damage dealt to main tower to convert it to armor check vs A.ConningTower,,,,,,,
hit_chance_conning_tower,50,chance to hit conning tower if main tower is hit,20,,,,,,
hit_chance_fire_control,50,chance to hit fire control if main tower is hit,20,,,,,,
conning_tower_damage_acc_loss,0.85,loss of accuracy due to damaged conning tower,0.5,,,,,,
fire_control_damage_acc_loss,0.7,loss of accuracy due to damaged fire control,0.35,,,,,,
fire_damage,0.33,base fire damage percent per second (to structure),0.5,,,,,,
fire_damage_part,0.1,base fire damage percent per second (to part),,,,,,,
surv_fire_decrease,65,percent decrease of fire damage due to fire (from max survivability),65,,,,,,
flooding_water,2.15,base flooding water percent increase per second (to water level),1,2.5,,,,,
pump_water,0.4,remove water by pumps from non-destroyed sections,0.2,,,,,,
surv_flooding_decrease,55,percent decrease of water from flooding (from max survivability),80,,,,,,
surv_pump_increase,50,percent of pumping increase (from max survivability),100,,,,,,
fire_stop_chance,35,basic chance to stop fire (every 10 seconds),10,,,,,,
flooding_stop_chance,2,basic chance to stop flooding (every 10 seconds),5,,,,,,
surv_flooding_stop,20,percent additional increase of flooding stop chance (from max survivability),10,,,,,,
water_stop_fire,80,threshold of water level (due to flooding) to stop any fire in section,80,,,,,,
fire_min_dur,45,minimal duration of fire (in seconds),15,,,,,,
flooding_min_dur,30,minimal duration of flooding (in seconds),15,,,,,,
water_spread_threshold,20,threshold of water level to start spreading into nearby sections (percent),80,,,,,,
water_spread_flood_mod,0.4,water spreading multiplier relative to normal flooding (affected by surv too),0.2,,,,,,
fire_spread_chance,20,"chance of fire to spread to one nearby section (percent chance, every 10 sec)",5,,,,,,
ap_fire_mod,0.8,fire chance multiplier for ap rounds penetrations,3,,,,,,
he_fire_mod,3.5,fire chance multiplier for he rounds penetrations,3,,,,,,
repair_module_chance,5,chance to repair module (every 10 seconds),5,,,,,,
structure_sink,100,percent to be sunk of structure damage sum relative to total structure,40,,,,,,
fire_sink,70,percent to be sunk of sections with fire relative to all sections' amount,80,,,,,,
flooding_sink,65,percent to be sunk of flooding levels sum relative to total floodable sections,65,,,,,,

 

In my opinion the devs are to be praised for trying really hard to simulate all possible things that could happen in the battlefield. The issue is for a player trying to understand why X happen in battle and not Y without understanding what are the modifiers behind the calculations and how they work. My advice is not to go crazy about how this values work, but instead use common sense that you got from the experience in just having fun playing the game.

 

You are comparing different caliber guns, probably using different shell types, some HE, others AP, some getting overpens, others full pen, against a variety of targets in a chaotic situation (battle). That is the worse situation possible to study the guns behavior. I strongly recommend to test a specific gun against a specific target (design the AI ship) in custom battles. Test to see at what ranges you get overpens if hitting near 90º, how the damage is being applied if using this type of shell or the other one, etc, etc....

Thanks for the response!

I will take some time to look over and understand all of this.

The only thing I will say is I can say with certainty that I did check the shell types. (ballistic capped for the enemy and ballistic capped II for me) Also, the enemy was firing AP, and I was also firing AP. The damage of the 12in being lower than the 8.1 and the 15 confused me. I had expected that the  damage of the 12in to fall more in the middle of the 2 enemy calibers.

Just to be clear, not complaining at all. Just trying to find out if it was working correctly and if so how and why.

Still a great mod and brings new life into the game for sure. (Also makes secondaries and small caliber feel more worthwhile.)

[o Barão]

18 hours ago, aradragoon said:

The damage of the 12in being lower than the 8.1 and the 15 confused me. I had expected that the  damage of the 12in to fall more in the middle of the 2 enemy calibers.

Run this simple test.

 

• Set a custom battle. Your ship vs 5 transports.
• Design your ship with a 12" gun. Take note what AP and HE shell type you are using.
• Fight the battle and look the damage numbers you are getting both with AP and HE.
• Now go back to the dockyard and change the 12" for 8" guns but using the same shell type for HE and AP.
• Go to battle.
• Repeat the process, but now using 15", and again using the same shell type.

 

This is the best way to compare gun damage.

[BELEW848]

Will this mod get gun resizer I can't make some ship with the guns they would og gotta. Like gneisenau with the 15s she was getting when the Raf bombed her in drydock

[o Barão]

3 hours ago, BELEW848 said:

Will this mod get gun resizer...

Why don't you read the mod description first? 😒

3 hours ago, BELEW848 said:

Like gneisenau with the 15s she was getting when the Raf bombed her in drydock

Yes you can. If you use the BB hull. But still...

I made a few minor size tweaks to the main tower components to allow 15" guns on the german BCs.

The new version is already uploaded. Download and have fun.

 

[Fangoriously]

On 8/30/2023 at 2:44 PM, o Barão said:

I made a few minor size tweaks to the main tower components to allow 15" guns on the german BCs.

The new version is already uploaded. Download and have fun.

 

Oh cool, ya that was a bit irritating not even being able to stick even 15in on those, same with the large cruiser. On my recent german campaign i setteled on 5 triple 11.9 heavy cruiser guns, at least with 15in the hull can be used more conventualy.

The large cruiser, about all you can do is set it up like a Deutschland, a big bore triple fore and aft with light cruiser main guns superfireing.

 

Wile playing that german campaign I thought it would also be nice to have a smaller high mk turret model for single barrel 5in, as seen on scharnhorst etc, for quality of life and historical accuracy. Also that model for the 17in+ turret, maybe the mk1 for those big guns should be the ww1 turret model, right now you can unlock a ~1935 looking 17in gun in ~1915.

[LongJohnSilver]

On 8/28/2023 at 2:18 PM, o Barão said:

o7!

One important thing first that I need to mention. In the "partsModels" there is no 5" quad guns for France. If you want a 5" quad gun for France, you will need to create it first. Just search for "QUAD GUNS FRANCE" inside the file to take you to the right location.

o7,

 

Yes! My bad, I meant the 3" and 4" guns, I'm more used to read in millimeters than in inches haha!

Thank you for the tutorial, it means a lot, I managed to do everything I wanted.. and It got me  quite interested in the rest to be honest, I've been looking at all the textassets files to try and understand them. I've been spending more time looking at  those data than actually playing the game 😁

I managed to get a hold of some, clearly more than i could have expected without your answer so again, thank's a lot!

One thing I still haven't cracked is how to change/replace hulls or parts for specific nations. I saw something in the technologies and randpart ressources file, but nothing that assigns a certain hull/part to a certain nation.

What I understand from these lines is that the hulls listed here are only unlocked with the technology. 
CA_rambow_france would be the name of the hull (which in this case is only used by the french)

CA__2 a generic hull, unlocked and used by every nation

Is there something I missed somewhere in the text.assets files or is it something more technical?

 

Thank you in advance