"Naval Arms Race" mod overhaul. BETA v11.1 - for UAD v1.5.1.3

[MDHansen]

Take a well earned break! Good and interesting changes and tweaks in your project

[Azerostar]

The Mega funnel III to VI all have too low funnel capacity for now. For example, Mega funnel VI has 82.5 funnel capacity in vanilla game, and 40 funnel capacity in NAR.

 

Edited March 28 by Azerostar

[flaviohc16]

so, reporting time!

I'm in 1931, Usa, normal difficulty 1890 start. Playing with the 1.5.05 and nar 7.1

My economy is around 500 billions, which means that even after 40 years of campaign, I still can't go in permabuild mode.

I have around 600k tons of shipyard, I would say that is the correct amount.

The economy feels great, I have the money but I can't overspend.

The only "problem" that I have campaign-wise is that the AI is too war-mongering, so right now I have basically 50% of the world GDP. This however is not a big problem, because it can be fixed by simply going up into the difficulty tree from normal to hard/legendary, so IMHO is the correct way of doing stuff.

Ship design is fantastic! I'm starting to see really good and scary ai designs, properly built, both modern ships and old ones.

You made a great mod and it's a lot of fun and improves the game a lot! Congratulations.

 

Only problems that I have: 

- I keep having late tech stuff missing, in this case propeller 5 and auxiliary engine 5, I put a screenshots of this inside the folder, where you can see that I'm already researching super propellers and don't have those times unlocked.

- I would really love to have the differentiation in max gun caliber between the large cruiser and the modern battlecruiser design, because the 1st makes the 2nd redundant,

 

But those are really small things! I love your mod! have a rest, now I will update to 1.5.06 and nar 7.3.

screenshots of the bug, the economies, my budget and world map:

Quote

 

This is my GDP growth at war ( the screenshot in the spoiler is after the war ended)

 

Edited March 28 by flaviohc16

[flaviohc16]

Also, the oil 3 missing bug ( oxygen torps and auto reload 2 are there however)

Quote

 

[o Barão]

52 minutes ago, flaviohc16 said:

Also, the oil 3 missing bug ( oxygen torps and auto reload 2 are there however)

So the others components were there all this time after all. 🤔

1 hour ago, flaviohc16 said:

I'm in 1931, Usa...

Oil III is a 1935 tech!

 

When you reach 1940, report me if you don't have that tech researched.

 

1 hour ago, flaviohc16 said:

 

The economy feels great, I have the money but I can't overspend.

 

The only "problem" that I have campaign-wise is that the AI is too war-mongering

I can lower the extra tension modifier for a future update, but I suspect that the AI nations are much more resilient now to go bankruptcy.

 

1 hour ago, flaviohc16 said:

- I would really love to have the differentiation in max gun caliber between the large cruiser and the modern battlecruiser design, because the 1st makes the 2nd redundant,

I am going to tell you a little secret, but don't share this with our American friends, because I am really not interested to start a debate about this.

 

For us europeans, large cruiser and battlecruiser, it is exactly the same thing! It is only a fancy Yankee name for the same ship role.

 

1 hour ago, flaviohc16 said:

Ship design is fantastic! I'm starting to see really good and scary ai designs, properly built, both modern ships and old ones.

You made a great mod and it's a lot of fun and improves the game a lot! Congratulations.

Thank you!!! 👍

 

7 hours ago, Azerostar said:

The Mega funnel III to VI all have too low funnel capacity for now. For example, Mega funnel VI has 82.5 funnel capacity in vanilla game, and 40 funnel capacity in NAR.

That is normal in NAR.

 

 

[flaviohc16]

18 minutes ago, o Barão said:

So the others components were there all this time after all. 🤔

Oil III is a 1935 tech!

 

When you reach 1940, report me if you don't have that tech researched.

I'll report in in 1940

 

18 minutes ago, o Barão said:

I can lower the extra tension modifier for a future update, but I suspect that the AI nations are much more resilient now to go bankruptcy.

The problem is not war-mongering per se, it's the fact that it destroys their GDP growth, I'm fine with the AI declaring war with me, the problem is that the AI is always at war with other AIs, so their GDP growth is hampered

 

18 minutes ago, o Barão said:

I am going to tell you a little secret, but don't share this with our American friends, because I am really not interested to start a debate about this.

 

For us europeans, large cruiser and battlecruiser, it is exactly the same thing! It is only a fancy Yankee name for the same ship role.

I'm Italian BTW, and I know about the Americans' large cruiser/battle cruiser insanity, to me the only problem is making one redundant, for gameplay purposes, when one is 20k tons bigger than the other (50% more displacement) without bigger guns, even by 1 inch.

 

18 minutes ago, o Barão said:

Thank you!!! 👍

You are very welcome!!

Edited March 28 by flaviohc16

[o Barão]

50 minutes ago, flaviohc16 said:

to me the only problem is making one redundant, for gameplay purposes, when one is 20k tons bigger than the other (50% more displacement) without bigger guns, even by 1 inch.

It doesn't. Both can have the same caliber guns, but one can have in theory more guns, more armor, etc... because it has more displacement.

Look at the tonnage available to be used by both and how many guns have both hulls. There is a big difference between both hulls about how much power they can bring to battle.

[Azerostar]

2 hours ago, o Barão said:

That is normal in NAR.

In NAR BETA v5.0.6 for UAD 1.4.1.1 Optx2, the Mega funnel VI has 80 funnel capacity,and for now its 40. In this situation,for some hulls that must chose funnel parts from Mega funnel III-VI (for example, USA Modern battleship II/III and Super battleship hull), it's almost impossible to built History based designs.

[o Barão]

41 minutes ago, Azerostar said:

In NAR BETA v5.0.6 for UAD 1.4.1.1 Optx2, the Mega funnel VI has 80 funnel capacity,and for now its 40. In this situation,for some hulls that must chose funnel parts from Mega funnel III-VI (for example, USA Modern battleship II/III and Super battleship hull), it's almost impossible to built History based designs.

Yes, and as I said before, that it is normal. What it is not normal, and I just checked, is to be impossible to use 2 funnels to get at least 100% EE when trying to replicate an Iowa class BB. So expect a buff to 50 funnel capacity. Nothing more.

 

Now for anyone that don't understand why this changes happens, and I am doing this since the beginning, I can explain why. Realism. To have, as an example, a DD going 40+knots with only a small funnel and having 100% E.E it is a fantasy, and that is what happens in vanilla game. In my changes to funnel capacity, it is always with the goal to force the players to design realistic designs for the time period if they want an engine with good efficiency. There is also the positive side effect, that by forcing them to use more funnels, in many hulls, they will have less room for more guns, which will helps to balance the poor AI designs against the player.

 

And to understand how difficult this can be, I have almost 700 funnels entries to edit inside the game, some were created by me. It is impossible for me to rebalance all of them and work the way I want for all ships in one go. So it is a continuous process, by simply playing the game, and looking to a specific ship, and thinking. "This is too much for the time period/power/funnel size."

[Azerostar]

Thanks for your answer and your great work😊

[KhanAnon]

Howdy - first of all, wanted to say love the mod, and really enjoying it. It's very fun, and it adds a bit more depth and excitement to the game compared to the base game. That being said... I must mention a small dilemma I have uncovered, for the Austro-Hungarian Navy. Triple barrel secondary turrets shown are bugged. Either they have invalid models, or they are shown as twin gun turrets as a placeholder. (In case you are wondering, I'm researching triple guns very early so I can try and make the Viribus Unitus class in game.)

Also - do you think it would be plausible to give them the semi-dreadnought hull as a ship they can build off of? They did have one semi-dreadnought class, the Radetzkys. 

Anyways - many thanks for your efforts, and God Bless.

[KhanAnon]

Also, oddly enough - for non-dreadnought hulls, the five inch triple gun turrets show to be normal, but the six inch gun turrets are once again shown to have only the placeholer twin gun mounting. 

[o Barão]

@KhanAnon I am looking at the Radetzky, and it seems you can build a similar ship already with the hulls and parts available. What I am missing here?

 

I already discovered the bug about 6" triple been dual barrel turret. Thanks for the report. 👍

Now, the bug about secondaries is very odd, since it is not showing to me nothing wrong, and I still didn't find a possible reason why it is happening to you.  You mentioned you rush the triple secondaries tech. In what year did you unlocked them?

Edited March 28 by o Barão

[KhanAnon]

Crud, my game isn't letting me unlock the semi-dreadnought hull for Austria-Hungary then. It goes from Battleship I, the base hull, to Battleship II - a slightly heavier one, before it goes straight to dreadnoughts. As for the year, I unlocked them mid-1905.

[KhanAnon]

Also - on another note, I have just one suggestion for the Austro-Hungarian's own guns. Have you considered using the model for the 5" guns Mark 1, and the twin mounts for them, as the model for their other smaller caliber guns instead of the German design? In my opinion, it fits their silliness much more - but it is but a suggestion.

[o Barão]

10 hours ago, KhanAnon said:

Crud, my game isn't letting me unlock the semi-dreadnought hull for Austria-Hungary then. It goes from Battleship I, the base hull, to Battleship II - a slightly heavier one, before it goes straight to dreadnoughts. As for the year, I unlocked them mid-1905.

And where you got the idea that the A-H have the semi-dreadnought hull?

[KhanAnon]

You mentioned they could build a warship of similar design to the Radetkzy's; I thought you meant they had a semi-dreadnought hull. I see you meant it as them having a hull that looked like it, but not of comparable standing or tonnage.

[o Barão]

5 hours ago, KhanAnon said:

You mentioned they could build a warship of similar design to the Radetkzy's; I thought you meant they had a semi-dreadnought hull. I see you meant it as them having a hull that looked like it, but not of comparable standing or tonnage.

The small dreadnought hull have the displacement to build the Radetkzy class.

[o Barão]

Beta 8 preview "Battlestations" update

• Battle AI reworked. Now it is free to do anything. Can chase, rush the enemy, maintain the distance, create battle lines. It is universal and combines the best of the two previous options, plus the upgrades to the AI decisions in battle from this version.
• Screen, scout, and follow are enabled for the AI, but in most cases will use independent formations since from my testing, those are what give the best results. There is also a 15% chance to see battle line formations to add more variety.
• AI divisions are limited to 3 ships instead of 5 in vanilla. This will help the AI to overwhelm the player with numbers.
• Semi realistic accuracy returns. It still in the works, but the results are promising.
• The bigger the gun, the more accurate it will be at max ranges.
• Penalties for the gun's ladder aiming, target range changes, target bearing changes and target turning are lower. This helps guns to maintain a lock to target, and if forced to use the ladder aiming to get a result quicker.*
• Accuracy difference from different guns' era are bigger now and this will impose a new challenge for the player. Should I focus on guns tech and suffer the research penalties, or go to battle with old guns? To make the player more invested in the tech tree. The penalty for focusing on a specific tech is lower now to compensate the player and give more freedom.
• Ship design AI logic improved. It should use bigger secondaries most of the time.

 

*NOTE:

• It is important to have two turrets or more of the same caliber to get a target to solution quicker trough salvos.
• Ships coming fast in your direction or away from you, or doing sharp turns, can still make your guns losing track and enter a "ladder aiming" situation. But it should be much quicker now to get a target solution.

Edited March 29 by o Barão

[SpardaSon21]

On 3/28/2024 at 3:02 AM, o Barão said:

I am going to tell you a little secret, but don't share this with our American friends, because I am really not interested to start a debate about this.

 

For us europeans, large cruiser and battlecruiser, it is exactly the same thing! It is only a fancy Yankee name for the same ship role.

 

I can't really disagree, although from a purely doctrinal perspective the Alaskas were intended as super-heavy cruisers as opposed to the long range raiding and sea control roles of a traditional BC.  They also used a scaled-up CA hull as their base instead of something derived from a BB.

On 3/28/2024 at 3:13 AM, flaviohc16 said:

I'm Italian BTW, and I know about the Americans' large cruiser/battle cruiser insanity, to me the only problem is making one redundant, for gameplay purposes, when one is 20k tons bigger than the other (50% more displacement) without bigger guns, even by 1 inch.

 

We've always been weird with cruisers.  Its something that dates back to the start of the USN back in the Napoleonic Era.  Even (or perhaps especially) later on during the post-CW era we continued that trend with ships like USS Franklin, a steam frigate commissioned in 1867 that carried an 11" gun, 34 9" guns, and a pair of 100 pounders.  USS Trenton that was laid down post-war as a patrol ship had 11 8" guns.  And then in this game's time frame you have USS Olympia and some other protected cruisers with 8" guns, and then the incredibly well-armed Tennessee class of armored cruisers that entered service in 1906 and carried 2x2 10" guns as their primary armament.

We even kept at that after the naval treaties when the Pensacolas were designated as CL's for several years after their commissioning despite their 8" guns on account of their thin armor.  As far as the USN was concerned the designation fit since massive guns on a smaller ship was just how we liked to do things.

Edited March 30 by SpardaSon21

[KhanAnon]

 

6 hours ago, o Barão said:

The small dreadnought hull have the displacement to build the Radetkzy class.

Oh. In hindsight, I should have thought of that. Many thanks.

Also - on some other news, I have unlocked triple gun turrets for the Austro-Hungarians (Jan. 1911 so far, had a little bit of a war so that got in the way) - and I have found another bug. The 12-inch gun turret uses not only the very early rotund turret design (for single, double, and triple mounts) - but also mounts a mystery gun barrel in the middle, using super secret technology to phase through the armor. 

[pad923]

So Ive been having some issues with the 5 inch guns MK4. I am playing as the Austro-Hungarian Empire, and noticed that all versions of the 5 inch gun mark 4 have 3 barrels except for the 4 barrel version. I have a feeling this is just an issue with the model. Image below (yes, its the same when placed down, not just in preview)

[o Barão]

6 hours ago, KhanAnon said:

 

The 12-inch gun turret uses not only the very early rotund turret design (for single, double, and triple mounts) - but also mounts a mystery gun barrel in the middle, using super secret technology to phase through the armor. 

The bugs you find!!!

 

That happens because the way they designed the game, it should not be possible to unlock triples and use that turret. I will replace that turret for the regular one.👍

 

Thank you for the report!

Edited March 30 by o Barão

[brothermunro]

7 hours ago, KhanAnon said:

 

Oh. In hindsight, I should have thought of that. Many thanks.

Also - on some other news, I have unlocked triple gun turrets for the Austro-Hungarians (Jan. 1911 so far, had a little bit of a war so that got in the way) - and I have found another bug. The 12-inch gun turret uses not only the very early rotund turret design (for single, double, and triple mounts) - but also mounts a mystery gun barrel in the middle, using super secret technology to phase through the armor. 

The middle ‘gun’ looks like they added a tube and painted it to confuse the enemy into thinking they had fancy triple turret technology 😂 (it appears to not have a barrel!)

Edited March 30 by brothermunro

[o Barão]

5 hours ago, pad923 said:

So Ive been having some issues with the 5 inch guns MK4. I am playing as the Austro-Hungarian Empire, and noticed that all versions of the 5 inch gun mark 4 have 3 barrels except for the 4 barrel version. I have a feeling this is just an issue with the model. Image below (yes, its the same when placed down, not just in preview)

Thank you for the report!! 👍