"Naval Arms Race" mod overhaul. BETA v10.9.2 - "Shells & Ballistics rework" update - for UAD v1.5.1.0 Opt

[o Barão]

One thing I am considering, and this is not a small change to the battle dynamic. It is to nerf or remove completely the torpedo spotting range modifier from sonar. It seems that this was simple not possible in this era, unless if a ship is dead in the water or sailing at very low speeds and even so from my understanding, the early ASDIC British systems were limited to a small arc in the bow. The German passive sonar systems seem they were better for this, and could allow U- boat captains to get a target solution only by using the hydrophone, but still this only if it was moving very slow in the water. With ships with in late era game all sailing around 30 knots or more, the way the sonar works in game is IMO a complete fantasy.

[Fangoriously]

I have a request regarding some of the larger guns, and it wont involve any sort of in-dept rebalance or anything, but simply skipping over the mk1, or even mk2 of the very largest guns. When I look at mk1 gun stats of 14in and up, i look at a gun that must have been designed on the back of a napkin in 1890, and then built to that spec as a joke, decades later.  Same thing for anything thats mk2 past 1930.

I would propose this, for 14, 15, and 16 in guns, simply introduce them at mk2 at their introduction year. They would at least have adequate stats compared to the mk3 smaller guns, and more importantly it would be more historically accurate, to have usable guns that size at the time you can start using those guns in game. From there you would have to adjust all the techs that unlock other mks for that gun so that next mk3, etc, is unlocked and mk2 isn't unlocked again.

As for the very large guns, 17in seems to show up first in 1924 in custom battle, I would skip both mk1 and mk2 for them and larger guns, by then 14 and 15in guns would be at mk4 with 16in at mk3 with the previous changes, mk4 16in soon after in 1929.

This would also help eliminate the glut of useless main guns you have to research until you, very seldomly, unlock something you would actually like to use, everything would be mk5 by 1940 also, as it always should have been. well, currently mk3 20in unlock at 1935 in custom battle, so they would be mk 5 by then with these changes. further tweaking with nods to historically accurate dates could be done on a second pass through this.

 

I'm a modder at heart myself and am tempted to figuring out how to dive into some of this personally, if i had time these days. So I sort of have several other ideas of things I'd change as well. I'll list a few

 

-the reload techs seem sorely inadequate to the task of reducing some of the gigantic reload times some of these guns have. I'd have the techs reduce reload by 10%/20%/30%/40% (current 10%/15%/20%/27.5%), with perhaps additional weight penalty also. You can barley get mid size guns to fire half as often as historical, non auto loaded guns could. But, having access to mk 4 and 5 guns much earlier with the above changes might also solve this.

-I saw you added a new tech icon with the float plane slot, oh the possibilities! I've always hated how secondary guns exactly mirror your main guns, I'd set them up much differently. How about secondary specific reload tech, maybe standard and enhanced only, and secondary shell size, probably light and standard only. secondary gun propellant and charge too? shell type? This all assuming its even possible to target techs to only effect main or secondary guns anyway, not just all guns.

-Wile we are soon to get a newyork/texas hull, we still have only the awful dreadnought 2 for the US until 1919, where then a dread 3 and 4 unlock. How about changing the campaign research that unlocks dread 2, to also unlock dread 3, and the 1919 research can unlock dread 4 like normal, but also a new 'dread 5', with a hull that looks more like the standards. Like the much later unlocked US 'modernized dreadnought' hull, that with it's available towers looks like its meant to be a standard that got rebuilt.

[o Barão]

5 hours ago, Fangoriously said:

They would at least have adequate stats compared to the mk3 smaller guns, and more importantly it would be more historically accurate, to have usable guns that size at the time you can start using those guns in game.

The issue you are describing does not exist in N.A.R.  In stock game, yes.

• All guns accuracy were reworked,  "The bigger the gun, the more accurate will be. The bigger the gun, the less accurate it will be at max range. The smaller the gun, the more accurate it will be at max range." This alone prevents bigger guns to be useless when they become available.
• All gun's reload rates were also reworked to be as historical as accurate as possible, and you should notice this make them much more interesting to use in comparison to stock game.

 

Here as an example, we have the 12" mk3 in comparison with the 15" mk1 (base stats)

It is clear that the 15" mk1 is already a very interesting gun to use the moment it becomes available in game.

 

6 hours ago, Fangoriously said:

 

As for the very large guns, 17in seems to show up first in 1924 in custom battle, I would skip both mk1 and mk2 for them and larger guns, by then 14 and 15in guns would be at mk4 with 16in at mk3 with the previous changes, mk4 16in soon after in 1929.

All guns dates were reworked for the next update, but with only small changes in comparison with the previous version. In N.A.R. the 17" inch are already available from 1913!!!! And I am not interested in skipping guns MK, since this allows me to have a smooth and interesting progression in gun tech tree.

 

"the reload techs seem sorely inadequate to the task of reducing some of the gigantic reload times some of these guns have."

The idea I got is that you are describing to me issues from stock game and sharing possible solutions before trying N.A.R. to see what is different.

[MasterBurte]

8 hours ago, Fangoriously said:

-I saw you added a new tech icon with the float plane slot, oh the possibilities! I've always hated how secondary guns exactly mirror your main guns, I'd set them up much differently. How about secondary specific reload tech, maybe standard and enhanced only, and secondary shell size, probably light and standard only. secondary gun propellant and charge too? shell type? This all assuming its even possible to target techs to only effect main or secondary guns anyway, not just all guns.

A armament section for every gun type on the ship would be really nice. So you could choose different options between your guns. Giving for example the smaller secondaries more penetration and the bigger mains more explosive power would be a hugh change. While i think this would be hard to add, one can still dream.

[mk4m]

Different ammo choice for main and secondary guns is possible? 

[o Barão]

1 hour ago, MasterBurte said:

A armament section for every gun type on the ship would be really nice. So you could choose different options between your guns. Giving for example the smaller secondaries more penetration and the bigger mains more explosive power would be a hugh change. While i think this would be hard to add, one can still dream.

 

1 hour ago, mk4m said:

Different ammo choice for main and secondary guns is possible? 

I agree that would be very interesting, but sadly I am almost 100% sure that only the devs can do that.

[o Barão]

N.A.R. alpha build 0.7

 

IMPORTANT

Due to many changes to the files, backup, move or delete this files from this location to avoid any issues:

C:\Users\(user)\AppData\LocalLow\Game Labs\Ultimate Admiral Dreadnoughts

- custom_battle_data.json

- mission_data.json

- save_x.json

Introduction

My biggest update ever. With many new mechanics, new guns models, new hulls, new components, etc… Some things need testing and feedback, so will I know what needs to change in the future. Many changes to the modern destroyers hulls to add nation flavor in the looks.

 

New features:

 

CHAPTER I Mechanics reworked.

1. Added scout plane mechanic. This will add recon value, bonus to the accuracy and add aerial depth charges to use against subs. Radar long range accuracy balanced because of this.

2. Nerfed the ammo and fuel, replenish at sea. Range in the ships should be more important in the design process. NOTE: It is possible to refuel the ships at sea by not moving between turns. This mechanic needs testing and feedback.

3. Radar and sonar weight modifiers removed.

4. Sonar torpedo spotting modifiers removed. Sonar is now only applied to CL and DD classes.

5. Depth charges removed from CA class.

6. Triple gun barrels disabled for the DD class.

7. Reworked gun mark initial dates for a better smooth progression with new unlocks every year.

8. Removed “smoke” from the tech tree. ( not used in N.A.R.)

9. Ship movement at sea increased (+35% campaign map)

10. Increase the chance to damage the fire control when the main tower is hit.

11. Flag communication from 1890 will give +25 radio (in stock is -95/ bug fix?)

12. Communism unrest increased.

 

CHAPTER II New components; new guns; new hulls.

1. Changed the gun model - 4" and 5" for germany DD & CL

2. Changed the gun model - 3";4";5" for british DD

3. Changed the 7"-11" late era Italian gun models.

4. Changed the Japanese 2" guns models.

5. Tall akizuki tower variants size tweaked.

6. Created "Modern tower I & II" for germany & austria modern destroyer hulls.

7. Gross Funnel I & II added to german/austrian CL V

8. Uber Funnel I & II added to Modern heavy cruiser ; Modern light cruiser.

9. Created and added "Modern rear tower" to modern destroyers.

10. Created and added "Small thick" funnels II & I for modern destroyers hulls.

11. Compact funnel variants added to French and Italian Modern light cruiser.

12. Compact funnel variants added to Italian modern destroyer hulls.

13. Compact tall & thin funnel variants added to the french modern destroyers.

14. Highly advanced tower variants added to japan & china Modern light cruiser.

15. Created and added "Modern rear tower" to modern destroyers hulls.

16. Some "Pagoda" towers added to Yamato hull; Experimental Large cruiser; Modern Battleship I (Japanese)

17. Some "Angled Funnel complex" variants added to Modern Battleship I; Modern Heavy cruiser II (French)

18. Created and added "Small Targeting Tower" I & II for destroyers.

19. Created and added "Compact Hyper funnel" & "Compact Gross funnel" variants for german and austrian modern destroyer hulls.

20. Created Modern I;II;III small "polygon" tower for the spanish, chinese and russian modern destroyer hulls.

21. Created and add Enhanced modern tower variants for the spanish, chinese and russian modern destroyer standard hull.

22. "Recon Cruiser" created and added for germany. Source: https://www.german-navy.de/kriegsmarine/ships/destroyer/spahkreuzer/index.html

23. All the modern destroyers hulls package were reworked to offer a unique look between nations. *except the japanese-they don’t need.

24. Many size tweaks to funnels, guns, towers to allow them to be place in specific positions or to interact with other components.

25. Many components stats rebalanced to work well. Still a W.I.P.

 

 

Edited April 13, 2023 by o Barão

[Käptn_Flitschauge]

There might be a problem with the shared designs creator. Observed the problem with Germany, USA, Japan and Spain. From 1905 onwards up until 1920 hulls will not show and the designer will not function correctly

EDIT: Okay, it just seems to be a bit hard for my PC to load the hulls.

EDIT2: Continue to observe this for Germany, Japan and Spain

 

Edited April 13, 2023 by Käptn_Flitschauge

[o Barão]

14 minutes ago, Käptn_Flitschauge said:

EDIT2: Continue to observe this for Germany, Japan and Spain

You did this, right? I forget to mention, but any existing shared design you already have will also cause issues. So make sure you don't have anything from previous versions.

 

IMPORTANT

Due to many changes to the files, backup, move or delete this files from this location to avoid any issues:

C:\Users\(user)\AppData\LocalLow\Game Labs\Ultimate Admiral Dreadnoughts

- custom_battle_data.json

- mission_data.json

- save_x.json

 

 

[Käptn_Flitschauge]

10 minutes ago, o Barão said:

You did this, right? I forget to mention, but any existing shared design you already have will also cause issues. So make sure you don't have anything from previous versions.

 

IMPORTANT

Due to many changes to the files, backup, move or delete this files from this location to avoid any issues:

C:\Users\(user)\AppData\LocalLow\Game Labs\Ultimate Admiral Dreadnoughts

- custom_battle_data.json

- mission_data.json

- save_x.json

 

 

Deleted all those before the patch. Although the fact that this bug does not appear ticking on just one year would speak to it having to do with preceding designs in there.

[Astor]

Is it intended that Gas Turbines can't be selected in custom battles?

[Fangoriously]

15 hours ago, o Barão said:

The issue you are describing does not exist in N.A.R.  In stock game, yes.

• All guns accuracy were reworked,  "The bigger the gun, the more accurate will be. The bigger the gun, the less accurate it will be at max range. The smaller the gun, the more accurate it will be at max range." This alone prevents bigger guns to be useless when they become available.
• All gun's reload rates were also reworked to be as historical as accurate as possible, and you should notice this make them much more interesting to use in comparison to stock game.

 

Here as an example, we have the 12" mk3 in comparison with the 15" mk1 (base stats)

It is clear that the 15" mk1 is already a very interesting gun to use the moment it becomes available in game.

 

All guns dates were reworked for the next update, but with only small changes in comparison with the previous version. In N.A.R. the 17" inch are already available from 1913!!!! And I am not interested in skipping guns MK, since this allows me to have a smooth and interesting progression in gun tech tree.

 

"the reload techs seem sorely inadequate to the task of reducing some of the gigantic reload times some of these guns have."

The idea I got is that you are describing to me issues from stock game and sharing possible solutions before trying N.A.R. to see what is different.

Derp, it had been over a week since I read through all the change logs and must have forgot about the part listing all the gun changes you listed. All those values look great, but i thought just the skipping of mk1s would be the quickest and dirtiest way to ditch nonsensically bad low tier midsize and large guns, if that hadn't already been done in the mod yet.

Definitely going to give this new release a go after i wrap up this campaign i'm on, thats nearly 1950.

[o Barão]

18 hours ago, Astor said:

Is it intended that Gas Turbines can't be selected in custom battles?

o7! I made some changes to techs dates in comparison to vanilla. In stock game, gas turbines are available in 1940. When, in reality, we only saw warships with gas turbines around the 60s. It is a little fantasy tech to have that in game. So I pushed the gas turbine technology to be available in 1946. It is still possible to invest in research to get what you want sooner.

 

Did you have any issues in the dockyard with the new N.A.R. update?

 

 

[MasterBurte]

I don't know if thats a bug but the multiple expansion steam engine 1 (japanese campaign) has +120% and +170% engine cost per weight.

[o Barão]

6 hours ago, MasterBurte said:

I don't know if thats a bug but the multiple expansion steam engine 1 (japanese campaign) has +120% and +170% engine cost per weight.

Yes, it is, from stock game.  I will warn the devs.

engine_engine_3,engine_engine,,Multiple expansion steam engine I,1900,1,74,"hp(27), engine_c(-120), fuel(15), stat(fcap;10), engine(4.5), engine_c(-170), engine_d(25), stat(smoke;70), engine_vibrations(-30), fuel_eff(15), cruising_speed(59)",main_engine_3,,An evolution to the older triple expansion steam engine which boosts

[StrikerDanger]

Would it be at all possible to add a feature allowing ship main battery to have a tied reload speed? Thinking more along mixed turret mounts (KGV and Nevada type) instead of gun size.

[o Barão]

2 hours ago, StrikerDanger said:

Would it be at all possible to add a feature allowing ship main battery to have a tied reload speed? Thinking more along mixed turret mounts (KGV and Nevada type) instead of gun size.

I am almost 100% sure it is possible. I don't remember now exactly where I can edit that. But I don't recommend doing that. Would make quads guns completely OP.

[StrikerDanger]

7 hours ago, o Barão said:

I am almost 100% sure it is possible. I don't remember now exactly where I can edit that. But I don't recommend doing that. Would make quads guns completely OP.

If you were going to tie them together, it would have to be on the slower one.

[o Barão]

17 minutes ago, StrikerDanger said:

If you were going to tie them together, it would have to be on the slower one.

That is irrelevant. If you have a dual and a quad, with both having the same reload speed, the quad will always be OP in comparison with the dual.

[SpardaSon21]

5 hours ago, o Barão said:

That is irrelevant. If you have a dual and a quad, with both having the same reload speed, the quad will always be OP in comparison with the dual.

A compromise would be having the reload speeds only match after researching the final quality tech (Advanced, IIRC) for turret sizes.  So you'd only get quads of equal reload rate to doubles by what, the 1950's?

 

This would mean you get twins of equal reload rate to singles in the 1910's/1920's, and triples in the 1930's/1940's which is pretty accurate to IRL, IIRC.

Edited April 20, 2023 by SpardaSon21

[Fangoriously]

Currently a quad weighs a fair bit less than 2 duel turret, with drawbacks of inferior reload and accuracy. This has always irritated me, why was the triple and quad designed wrong? is it being intentionally understaffed? Was the shell handling bottleneck intentionally engineered into it? Id be willing to pay for and take the weight penalty necessary for a proper performing quad that could match the performance of a duel, even if the end result weighed more than 2 whole duel turrets.

That's what I would prefer in game, triples and quads matching duel accuracy and reload stats, but also weighting/costing "to much" proportionally. That would actually even make opting for duels more appealing, if triples and quads were so much more costly to run, now balanced mostly by whether you have an excess of deck space or not to just add more duel turrets instead. You'd be able to run navada and KGV setups without a problem as a bonus, if the turret stats were all the same.

To fix singles in some way, that goes beyond stat tweaks, you would need to be able to edit the gun model itself extensively, so the turret housing isn't as wide as a triple. Same is needed for most duel turrets also, to a slightly lesser extent.

Edited April 21, 2023 by Fangoriously

[SpardaSon21]

1 minute ago, Fangoriously said:

Currently a quad weighs a fair bit less than 2 duel turret, with drawbacks of inferior reload and accuracy. This has always irritated me, why was the triple and quad designed wrong? is it being intentionally understaffed? Was the shell handling bottleneck intentionally engineered into it? Id be willing to pay for and take the weight penalty necessary for a proper performing quad that could match the performance of a duel, even if the end result weighed more than 2 whole duel turrets.

That's what I would prefer in game, triples and quads matching duel accuracy and reload stats, but also weighting/costing "to much" proportionally. That would actually even make opting for duels more appealing, if triples and quads were so much more costly to run, now balanced mostly by whether you have an excess of deck space or not to just add more duel turrets instead. You'd be able to run navada and KGV setups without a problem as a bonus, if the turret stats were all the same.

First, you have a much reduced per-barrel weight when you add guns to turrets.  There were studies done that have demonstrated this.

Second, while you may save weight by only needing one barbette and one turret instead of two or more, the mechanical complexity of said turret increases compared to the other two.  Its not just loading and traversing gear, but designing these things so they don't interfere with each other, dampening vibration and recoil, and doing so in a way that won't compromise weight savings.

[StrikerDanger]

The entire reason I suggested the idea was to allow people to make ships like USS Nevada, USS Pensacola or the KGV class battleships (since all three classes posses abnormal turret/barrel layouts, 3-2-2-3/2-3-3-2/4-2-4)

 

And yes, I'm aware these vessels can be made, the differing reloads between a dual to a triple, or a dual to a quad, makes them irregular, awkward and, in my opinion, inefficient as a fleet unit in the current game. Being able to marry the main battery reload times of a given gun size (14 inch in this case) to the slower reload (IE 45 for a triple, 35 for a dual) could, somewhat, alleviate this, I think.

Edited April 21, 2023 by StrikerDanger

[kjg000]

On 4/13/2023 at 8:06 PM, o Barão said:

N.A.R. alpha build 0.7

 

IMPORTANT

Due to many changes to the files, backup, move or delete this files from this location to avoid any issues:

C:\Users\(user)\AppData\LocalLow\Game Labs\Ultimate Admiral Dreadnoughts

- custom_battle_data.json

- mission_data.json

- save_x.json

Introduction

My biggest update ever. With many new mechanics, new guns models, new hulls, new components, etc… Some things need testing and feedback, so will I know what needs to change in the future. Many changes to the modern destroyers hulls to add nation flavor in the looks.

 

New features:

 

CHAPTER I Mechanics reworked.

1. Added scout plane mechanic. This will add recon value, bonus to the accuracy and add aerial depth charges to use against subs. Radar long range accuracy balanced because of this.

2. Nerfed the ammo and fuel, replenish at sea. Range in the ships should be more important in the design process. NOTE: It is possible to refuel the ships at sea by not moving between turns. This mechanic needs testing and feedback.

3. Radar and sonar weight modifiers removed.

4. Sonar torpedo spotting modifiers removed. Sonar is now only applied to CL and DD classes.

5. Depth charges removed from CA class.

6. Triple gun barrels disabled for the DD class.

7. Reworked gun mark initial dates for a better smooth progression with new unlocks every year.

8. Removed “smoke” from the tech tree. ( not used in N.A.R.)

9. Ship movement at sea increased (+35% campaign map)

10. Increase the chance to damage the fire control when the main tower is hit.

11. Flag communication from 1890 will give +25 radio (in stock is -95/ bug fix?)

12. Communism unrest increased.

 

CHAPTER II New components; new guns; new hulls.

1. Changed the gun model - 4" and 5" for germany DD & CL

2. Changed the gun model - 3";4";5" for british DD

3. Changed the 7"-11" late era Italian gun models.

4. Changed the Japanese 2" guns models.

5. Tall akizuki tower variants size tweaked.

6. Created "Modern tower I & II" for germany & austria modern destroyer hulls.

7. Gross Funnel I & II added to german/austrian CL V

8. Uber Funnel I & II added to Modern heavy cruiser ; Modern light cruiser.

9. Created and added "Modern rear tower" to modern destroyers.

10. Created and added "Small thick" funnels II & I for modern destroyers hulls.

11. Compact funnel variants added to French and Italian Modern light cruiser.

12. Compact funnel variants added to Italian modern destroyer hulls.

13. Compact tall & thin funnel variants added to the french modern destroyers.

14. Highly advanced tower variants added to japan & china Modern light cruiser.

15. Created and added "Modern rear tower" to modern destroyers hulls.

16. Some "Pagoda" towers added to Yamato hull; Experimental Large cruiser; Modern Battleship I (Japanese)

17. Some "Angled Funnel complex" variants added to Modern Battleship I; Modern Heavy cruiser II (French)

18. Created and added "Small Targeting Tower" I & II for destroyers.

19. Created and added "Compact Hyper funnel" & "Compact Gross funnel" variants for german and austrian modern destroyer hulls.

20. Created Modern I;II;III small "polygon" tower for the spanish, chinese and russian modern destroyer hulls.

21. Created and add Enhanced modern tower variants for the spanish, chinese and russian modern destroyer standard hull.

22. "Recon Cruiser" created and added for germany. Source: https://www.german-navy.de/kriegsmarine/ships/destroyer/spahkreuzer/index.html

23. All the modern destroyers hulls package were reworked to offer a unique look between nations. *except the japanese-they don’t need.

24. Many size tweaks to funnels, guns, towers to allow them to be place in specific positions or to interact with other components.

25. Many components stats rebalanced to work well. Still a W.I.P.

 

 

Excellent mod which has gone a long way to making the game enjoyable again. Well done.

I noticed you added spotter planes to the shipbuilder, I'd like to see if I can add some tool-tip info to some of the variables on that screen, can you point me to the relevant container in UABEA and perhaps any other info you think may be relevant.

Sadly I don't have lots of time to devote to this but I would like to make some QoL improvements if I can.

BTW do you know where the hull obsolescence date is defined?

[Astor]

1 hour ago, kjg000 said:

obsolescence

you can edit the technologies file to make all hulls available till the end