NAR BETA 3.0.3 "Major Powers update" for UAD 1.6.0.6 opt x4

[Dutchy]

Please tell me Baron, that you gonna try to make this absolute unit of a mod to work on the new patch

[Peksern]

New options "Mixed", "Fast", "Slow" for starting the campaign, allow you to use the pre-made AI ships according to your liking. If you want to play in the fastest way, you choose “Fast” so all AI designs are pre-made. In “Mixed” mode only the starting units are pre-made and in “Slow” mode all AI designs are generated on demand, making it a full sandbox mode, but it will cost the most time during turn times. 

*Important:*

 Mods will be compatible only with the “Slow” mode.

Actually, this doesn't sound too bad, does it? Like a mode that works since before. Should be fine then, shouldn't it?

[NathanKell]

40 minutes ago, Peksern said:

New options "Mixed", "Fast", "Slow" for starting the campaign, allow you to use the pre-made AI ships according to your liking. If you want to play in the fastest way, you choose “Fast” so all AI designs are pre-made. In “Mixed” mode only the starting units are pre-made and in “Slow” mode all AI designs are generated on demand, making it a full sandbox mode, but it will cost the most time during turn times. 

*Important:*

 Mods will be compatible only with the “Slow” mode.

Actually, this doesn't sound too bad, does it? Like a mode that works since before. Should be fine then, shouldn't it?

Mods will certainly be compatible with Mixed or Fast if (a) the mod uses TAF and (b) the modder includes their own premade ships.

[Peksern]

6 minutes ago, NathanKell said:

Mods will certainly be compatible with Mixed or Fast if (a) the mod uses TAF and (b) the modder includes their own premade ships.

Well, but it sounds to me like they will even be compatible if they don't. That's better than the feared end of all mods, isn't it?

[NathanKell]

10 minutes ago, Peksern said:

Well, but it sounds to me like they will even be compatible if they don't. That's better than the feared end of all mods, isn't it?

Oh, for sure if you select Slow then the new premade-ships feature won't be enabled at all.

 

And I at least never thought it would be the end of all mods--I had full confidence I could get around it--more that I didn't want to have TAF need to be a dependency for all mods--that's quite a burden to bear, to be what keeps modding alive.  

[Krissy]

Technically speaking, with the updated version of TAF which is coming for 1.6.0.7, would NAR be compatible for starting a new campaign? Since there's currently no ETA on the next version. 

[NathanKell]

6 hours ago, Krissy said:

Technically speaking, with the updated version of TAF which is coming for 1.6.0.7, would NAR be compatible for starting a new campaign? Since there's currently no ETA on the next version. 

If you play with Slow designs probably, can't use predefined designs until there's a ship pack. 

 

TAF updated.

[JeeWeeJ]

On 10/2/2024 at 12:37 AM, SonicB said:

It's Britain, at Very Advanced. Spain is Very Behind and the others are Average.

Weirdly, I played a couple more years into 1912, made peace (well, eradicated China), and got back up to oscillating between Average and Behind in tech... but that still makes very little sense given that I haven't moved the tech slider off 100% since 1897.

Edit: if it helps, I'm playing without the new nations to shorten loading times, by deleting the two files you recommended from the mod folder.

I've also started noticing some weird techlevel stuff. Started a new campaign and was always on "average" with the Brits being the only ones on Very Advanced. (my tech budget has always been at 100%)
Now a massive war has broken out, and suddenly I'm "behind" while Greece, which has a GDP which is 1/4th of mine and 1/3rd the annual naval budget is still "average"? Can anyone explain to me what the logic is behind that? (I thought that the research budget was based on your naval budget, but it doesn't seem to be that simple?)


vs

Also, but maybe this is more of a TAF thing, it seems like those alliances getting dragged into wars is working a bit too well? The AI in my game is in a MASSIVE war with me being the only somewhat neutral party (Dutch gotta Dutch) and it has been raging for years now with both sides (two massive alliance blocks) both sides just keep going at it...but it seems the game never really reaches a point where it makes peace? (or they just get dragged back in due to the new alliance logic, I've seen so many war declarations in this game) At this point my game is like "The year is 1913, and there is only war".

Pretty much all nations look like this (this is Russia for example)

I love that alliances are now actually useful, but this seems to be overdoing it a bit? @NathanKell is that as-designed?
 

[flaviohc16]

18 minutes ago, JeeWeeJ said:

I've also started noticing some weird techlevel stuff. Started a new campaign and was always on "average" with the Brits being the only ones on Very Advanced. (my tech budget has always been at 100%)
Now a massive war has broken out, and suddenly I'm "behind" while Greece, which has a GDP which is 1/4th of mine and 1/3rd the annual naval budget is still "average"? Can anyone explain to me what the logic is behind that? (I thought that the research budget was based on your naval budget, but it doesn't seem to be that simple?)


vs

Also, but maybe this is more of a TAF thing, it seems like those alliances getting dragged into wars is working a bit too well? The AI in my game is in a MASSIVE war with me being the only somewhat neutral party (Dutch gotta Dutch) and it has been raging for years now with both sides (two massive alliance blocks) both sides just keep going at it...but it seems the game never really reaches a point where it makes peace? (or they just get dragged back in due to the new alliance logic, I've seen so many war declarations in this game) At this point my game is like "The year is 1913, and there is only war".

Pretty much all nations look like this (this is Russia for example)

I love that alliances are now actually useful, but this seems to be overdoing it a bit? @NathanKell is that as-designed?
 

I can concur with both of these problems, the wars started in 1909 and the AI is always at war, I'm allied with China and they drag me into wars even if I'm pretty neutral with the nations that China is at war with. And it seems I'm unable to cancel my alliance, even when I'm not at war.

 

1922 USA, 1890 start, Normal difficulty, Historical opponents.

Also some nations, like France, keep having +8% of GDP growth even though they are getting invaded everywhere and are at war with 10 different nations.

 

And the Technology thing is quite a mess

Edited yesterday at 09:37 AM by flaviohc16

[JeeWeeJ]

Just a brainfart here: maybe now that alliances are working properly, the game needs some kind of alliance-wide peace option? Where the largest country is the alliance "leader" and can dictate if the alliance goes to peace or not?
(so, say, the US is the largest party of alliance A and thus gets the peace dialogue?)

Also it might then be fun to disband the alliance after the peace is signed, just to mix things up?

But...no clue if this is even technically possible. Given the scope of both NAR and NAT are now way bigger than the vanilla game. 😅

[MDHansen]

Doesn't it work like this allready? The initiator and defendant are the only ones that can end it, and you can't leave the alliance in a war(?). I actually haven't allied with any one in so long, I have forgotten how the (vanilla) mechanics are

Edited yesterday at 10:22 AM by MDHansen

[JeeWeeJ]

48 minutes ago, MDHansen said:

Doesn't it work like this allready? The initiator and defendant are the only ones that can end it, and you can't leave the alliance in a war(?). I actually haven't allied with any one in so long, I have forgotten how the (vanilla) mechanics are

If that is the case (could very well be as I'm not really knowledgeable about the ingame mechanics, but I just never noticed it) then maybe it might need a bit of tweaking with the TAF alliance mechanic? 🤔

The only thing I see happen now is nations dropping out of alliances due to revolutions or something, but they are quickly swept up in the alliances again as they don't drop out of the wars.

[o Barão]

On 10/3/2024 at 2:18 PM, MiklosHorthy said:

@o Barão

In the next update, could you change the balance of Great Britain in relation to the rest (weaken it a bit)? Legendary dif.

All my changes are always taking into consideration the normal difficulty, and I don't see any balance issues at that difficulty.

But I intend to bump the ship building program for the major powers (Britain, France, Germany, USA, Japan) in a future update so you will probably see a great unbalance then, specially if playing at legendary difficulty.

 

@Peksern 

"New options "Mixed", "Fast", "Slow" for starting the campaign, allow you to use the pre-made AI ships according to your liking. If you want to play in the fastest way, you choose “Fast” so all AI designs are pre-made. In “Mixed” mode only the starting units are pre-made and in “Slow” mode all AI designs are generated on demand, making it a full sandbox mode, but it will cost the most time during turn times. 

*Important:*

 Mods will be compatible only with the “Slow” mode.

Actually, this doesn't sound too bad, does it? Like a mode that works since before. Should be fine then, shouldn't it?"

 

It is the worst nightmare because I am almost sure that is not the truth. Most likely for me to never consider updating for that version.

To create ship packs using the feature from that version is impossible.

And the ships packs from vanilla are not compatible with all the mod changes.

 

 

And what would happen, is some players using "fast" or "mixed", getting a lot of bugs and crashes and then asking why it was not working. How is possible for pack vanilla ships to work with NAR? Impossible. So it is a useless update for me.

 

Most likely for me to stick with 1.6.0.6 for a long time. When the devs launch an update with new ship models, then I will consider a possibility to update and make it work somehow, or to import the models for the current version.

[Peksern]

23 minutes ago, o Barão said:

And what would happen, is some players using "fast" or "mixed", getting a lot of bugs and crashes and then asking why it was not working. How is possible for pack vanilla ships to work with NAR? Impossible. So it is a useless update for me.

What about disabling fast or mixed by the mod? Or TAF?

 

24 minutes ago, o Barão said:

It is the worst nightmare because I am almost sure that is not the truth. Most likely for me to never consider updating for that version.

Why? For me it sounded like a mod-friendly mode.

[o Barão]

1 hour ago, Peksern said:

What about disabling fast or mixed by the mod? Or TAF?

 

Why? For me it sounded like a mod-friendly mode.

"And what would happen, is some players using "fast" or "mixed", getting a lot of bugs and crashes and then asking why it was not working. How is possible for pack vanilla ships to work with NAR? Impossible. So it is a useless update for me. "

 

And if I am disabling fast or mixed (even if that is possible somehow), what is the point in updating to that version? So again a useless update for me.

Edited 19 hours ago by o Barão

[flaviohc16]

52 minutes ago, o Barão said:

"And what would happen, is some players using "fast" or "mixed", getting a lot of bugs and crashes and then asking why it was not working. How is possible for pack vanilla ships to work with NAR? Impossible. So it is a useless update for me. "

 

And if I am disabling fast or mixed (even if that is possible somehow), what is the point in updating to that version? So again a useless update for me.

i asked for this, and the devs said that even in slow, turns will be faster

[NathanKell]

2 hours ago, o Barão said:

All my changes are always taking into consideration the normal difficulty, and I don't see any balance issues at that difficulty.

But I intend to bump the ship building program for the major powers (Britain, France, Germany, USA, Japan) in a future update so you will probably see a great unbalance then, specially if playing at legendary difficulty.

 

@Peksern 

"New options "Mixed", "Fast", "Slow" for starting the campaign, allow you to use the pre-made AI ships according to your liking. If you want to play in the fastest way, you choose “Fast” so all AI designs are pre-made. In “Mixed” mode only the starting units are pre-made and in “Slow” mode all AI designs are generated on demand, making it a full sandbox mode, but it will cost the most time during turn times. 

*Important:*

 Mods will be compatible only with the “Slow” mode.

Actually, this doesn't sound too bad, does it? Like a mode that works since before. Should be fine then, shouldn't it?"

 

It is the worst nightmare because I am almost sure that is not the truth. Most likely for me to never consider updating for that version.

To create ship packs using the feature from that version is impossible.

And the ships packs from vanilla are not compatible with all the mod changes.

 

 

And what would happen, is some players using "fast" or "mixed", getting a lot of bugs and crashes and then asking why it was not working. How is possible for pack vanilla ships to work with NAR? Impossible. So it is a useless update for me.

 

Most likely for me to stick with 1.6.0.6 for a long time. When the devs launch an update with new ship models, then I will consider a possibility to update and make it work somehow, or to import the models for the current version.

I am extremely confused by this post. I have already pointed out TAF would support these changes, and I know you saw this because you responded to the post. And indeed I have released a TAF that does support this.

Further, I am going to release a TAF update that enables the Batch Ship Generator, so you don't have to manually create all the predefined designs, you can just let the generator do so. At that point a player can use Mixed or Fast just fine.

 

And Slow will work _right now_.

[Peksern]

6 minutes ago, flaviohc16 said:

i asked for this, and the devs said that even in slow, turns will be faster

That's how I understood it too... that performance and loading times would be overall better, even with manually designed AI ships. 

I can't relate to the uselessness of this update, to be honest. 

Edited 18 hours ago by Peksern

[brothermunro]

1 hour ago, o Barão said:

"And what would happen, is some players using "fast" or "mixed", getting a lot of bugs and crashes and then asking why it was not working. How is possible for pack vanilla ships to work with NAR? Impossible. So it is a useless update for me. "

 

And if I am disabling fast or mixed (even if that is possible somehow), what is the point in updating to that version? So again a useless update for me.

You can change what they are called (and their descriptions) in the English.lng file, I’ve changed ‘fast’ to DO NOT USE 😅

If Nathan is able to make a batch generator somehow we should be able to package up mod compliant designs to make the fast and mixed options function without having to sit and make 20,000 designs (hopefully)

[MDHansen]

we all know the "DO NOT" dissapears when users reads/listens to a notification

oh so many fond memories from EVE Online sitting on a gate with a 400 man fleet. FC keeps saying "dont jump", people starts asking do we jump, someone said jump, we're jumping! and suddenly half the fleet is in the next system getting slaughtered

[Pappystein]

1 hour ago, MDHansen said:

we all know the "DO NOT" dissapears when users reads/listens to a notification

oh so many fond memories from EVE Online sitting on a gate with a 400 man fleet. FC keeps saying "dont jump", people starts asking do we jump, someone said jump, we're jumping! and suddenly half the fleet is in the next system getting slaughtered

Yeah,   That is EVERY group that isn't well disciplined.   And gamers are notoriously undiciplined  "I just do it for fun I don't want to work to understand."  

My sub mod for Battletech has had that issue since the day I released it.

[o Barão]

2 hours ago, MDHansen said:

we all know the "DO NOT" dissapears when users reads/listens to a notification

oh so many fond memories from EVE Online sitting on a gate with a 400 man fleet. FC keeps saying "dont jump", people starts asking do we jump, someone said jump, we're jumping! and suddenly half the fleet is in the next system getting slaughtered

Classic ;D

 

3 hours ago, NathanKell said:

I am going to release a TAF update that enables the Batch Ship Generator, so you don't have to manually create all the predefined designs, you can just let the generator do so. At that point a player can use Mixed or Fast just fine.

Oh, I read, but at that point I still got the idea that it wasn't worth the effort. Now with that "Batch ship generator", well I can change my opinion.

 

3 hours ago, brothermunro said:

You can change what they are called (and their descriptions) in the English.lng file, I’ve changed ‘fast’ to DO NOT USE 😅

That is good news!!!+1

 

3 hours ago, brothermunro said:

If Nathan is able to make a batch generator somehow we should be able to package up mod compliant designs to make the fast and mixed options function without having to sit and make 20,000 designs (hopefully)

Let's pray together, brother! 🙏

[Maximus Tyberius]

On 9/15/2024 at 4:30 AM, o Barão said:

In UAD we have 2 flags for each country always at the same time. The country/government flag and the naval ensign/naval jack which can also change with the country government type.

In some countries the naval ensign is the same, but it is possible to also use the naval jack. In some situations I prefer to use the naval jack in others, like Argentina I prefer to use the naval ensign which is the same as the country flag.

*Note: If you open the flags folder you will see that I added more flags that are not being used. As an example the Argentina Navy Jack, or some fantasy A-H flags. You can add more and use what you want by editing the flags.csv file.

Can I set the national chilean flag for campaign map ports and fleets, but also set that the actual ships still use the naval flag on the prow?

[Fyredrake]

Running into what I think is another bug, haven't encountered this with any gun system except this in this case so a rather rare one.  But essentially when I created a refit of this ship as shown in the screenshots, I did not select upgrade gun mark, but upon refitting the ship also as shown, it in fact did. Not a really big deal, just messes up the gun positioning on the ships which I then have to go and fix is all.  But it messes up the "aesthetic" of the dreadnought versus modern I suppose xD.  Uncertain if there is anything you can do for this, but I have linked the save file here.   

[jamchgo]

16 hours ago, o Barão said:

All my changes are always taking into consideration the normal difficulty, and I don't see any balance issues at that difficulty.

But I intend to bump the ship building program for the major powers (Britain, France, Germany, USA, Japan) in a future update so you will probably see a great unbalance then, specially if playing at legendary difficulty.

 

@Peksern 

"New options "Mixed", "Fast", "Slow" for starting the campaign, allow you to use the pre-made AI ships according to your liking. If you want to play in the fastest way, you choose “Fast” so all AI designs are pre-made. In “Mixed” mode only the starting units are pre-made and in “Slow” mode all AI designs are generated on demand, making it a full sandbox mode, but it will cost the most time during turn times. 

*Important:*

 Mods will be compatible only with the “Slow” mode.

Actually, this doesn't sound too bad, does it? Like a mode that works since before. Should be fine then, shouldn't it?"

 

It is the worst nightmare because I am almost sure that is not the truth. Most likely for me to never consider updating for that version.

To create ship packs using the feature from that version is impossible.

And the ships packs from vanilla are not compatible with all the mod changes.

 

 

And what would happen, is some players using "fast" or "mixed", getting a lot of bugs and crashes and then asking why it was not working. How is possible for pack vanilla ships to work with NAR? Impossible. So it is a useless update for me.

 

Most likely for me to stick with 1.6.0.6 for a long time. When the devs launch an update with new ship models, then I will consider a possibility to update and make it work somehow, or to import the models for the current version.

I look forward to this change as a minor problem I have seen is even the larger AI nations like the ones you mentioned just do not scale their ship builidng capacity enough but the real problem I have seen is minor nations like Greece, Chile and the like seem to never ever increase their capacity. 

I had to start editing save files because I will reach like 1920 with a 1890 start and they will still have under 20k shipbuilding capacity.