NAR BETA 3 "Major Powers update" for UAD 1.6.0.6 opt x3

[NathanKell]

10 hours ago, o Barão said:

Interesting question. @NathanKell?

I mean, sure? Definitely possible. Just be a fair amount of work.

[kittenz]

I'm running into the inexplicable issue of the mod simply not working. It was working before, but it just stopped. The menu is no longer showing NAR is installed. I even uninstalled melonloader, redownloaded all mod files, and extracted them into the automatically created mod folder. I really don't understand what could be going wrong because I'm doing the exact same thing on the same game version I was using previously that worked. Can anyone tell me if I'm missing something obvious? 

[o Barão]

8 hours ago, kittenz said:

I'm running into the inexplicable issue of the mod simply not working. It was working before, but it just stopped. The menu is no longer showing NAR is installed. I even uninstalled melonloader, redownloaded all mod files, and extracted them into the automatically created mod folder. I really don't understand what could be going wrong because I'm doing the exact same thing on the same game version I was using previously that worked. Can anyone tell me if I'm missing something obvious? 

Are you seeing the NAR files inside the "mods" folder?

You installed the melon loader again and applied Taf dll?

[Peksern]

@NathanKell I have another issue with the gun upgrade. I refitted a ship with mark 1 guns (12 inch) and did not upgrade them. In ship designer they are still mark 1, but in battle they were mark 2 anyway. Not sure if that was only a temporary bug or happens always. Gonna keep an eye on it. 

 

Edit: Bug's returning. Added Screenshots.

Edited Thursday at 04:57 PM by Peksern

[Pappystein]

I am curious, we still haven't seen any new ship models in the 1.6 variants so far correct?   Are these a part of the 1.6.0.7 Beta?  Or not included with that as well?

I ask because that also will cause more work for o Barão

 

[o Barão]

47 minutes ago, Pappystein said:

I am curious, we still haven't seen any new ship models in the 1.6 variants so far correct?   Are these a part of the 1.6.0.7 Beta?  Or not included with that as well?

I ask because that also will cause more work for o Barão

 

None.

[EvnSknk]

9 hours ago, Peksern said:

@NathanKell I have another issue with the gun upgrade. I refitted a ship with mark 1 guns (12 inch) and did not upgrade them. In ship designer they are still mark 1, but in battle they were mark 2 anyway. Not sure if that was only a temporary bug or happens always. Gonna keep an eye on it. 

I've been having a different though similar problem. I made a refit of every design with various upgrades, including Mk II guns on secondary and main battery. All ships completed dockyard refits, but when I took them to battle main guns on the actual ships were still Mk I.

Here's the (Ottoman) Fettah class pre-dreadnought with Mk II dual 12" and 5" secondary, in the designer.

But here is the Fettah herself in the ship viewer. Everything correctly upgraded in the refit except the main guns. The secondary battery went from 5" Mk I singles to Mk II duals, the casemates from 3" Mk I to 3" Mk II, armor from Compound to Harvey, torpedoes from 16" to 18", everything except the main gun.

I also wanted to make sure that you can see in the ship viewer, not in the designer with refit mode, the Upgrade Mark button is available. If I click it, it will visually change to a Mk II in the viewer, but when I leave the viewer obviously nothing changes. In the Ship Design tab the refit button is red because they've all been upgraded, it just doesn't change the main gun.

This applies to all ship types. As far as I can tell it only affects the main battery, all other systems that I change in refit are upgrading as they should.

[NathanKell]

11 hours ago, Peksern said:

@NathanKell I have another issue with the gun upgrade. I refitted a ship with mark 1 guns (12 inch) and did not upgrade them. In ship designer they are still mark 1, but in battle they were mark 2 anyway. Not sure if that was only a temporary bug or happens always. Gonna keep an eye on it. 

 

Edit: Bug's returning. Added Screenshots.

I'll look when I get home from my trip. Please upload a save from when the issue is occurring, screenshots don't tell me anything other than what your words are, that you have the issue 😝

[flaviohc16]

Do we have any news of when we can expect the mod to be updated for 1.6.0.7?  I would love the fast loading times with NAR

[o Barão]

4 minutes ago, flaviohc16 said:

Do we have any news of when we can expect the mod to be updated for 1.6.0.7?  I would love the fast loading times with NAR

I will quote Nathan on this:

"This is an excellent idea. Only problem is the PSPACKED_(year) files are binary blobs and thus not moddable, which means that this whole system is incompatible with any mod that touches parts/techs/balance/whatever, because the designs only work for vanilla part weights, vanilla shiptype data, vanilla tech stats and tech<->year mapping, etc. At the very least, please store these in json in the TextAssets so that modders can edit the ships."

 

I don't know when or even if it is possible to make NAR compatible with future UAD updates.

About the fast loading screens, it is possible to get a similar result now by using the shared design mechanic ingame, the problem is I am seeing a major bug in doing that. Designs that were made using this mechanic will work well in custom battles, however in the campaign for some unknow reason to me at this point  (can be a vanilla bug), the moment I return from the shipyard, I will get replicates from the ship designs and the ships that were made using the shared designs will vanish from the game. So until I found what it is the issue here, I can't start working on a ship pack.

[Peksern]

8 hours ago, NathanKell said:

I'll look when I get home from my trip. Please upload a save from when the issue is occurring, screenshots don't tell me anything other than what your words are, that you have the issue 😝

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1fHHnsGfiCL6Ihgs34ntfaiHmRFyME3BU?usp=drive_link 

Sorry, forgot. Here you go.  Have a nice trip!

[flaviohc16]

Can we change the color of the neutral/minor powers on the map? It's too blueish and it hard to differentiate between USA and minors.

[o Barão]

NAR BETA 3 "Major Powers update" for UAD 1.6.0.6 opt x3

 

Note: Due to important changes how components are unlocked, I will recommend anyone only to update if starting a new campaign to avoid possible issues.

Major changes to components, not only about when they become obsolete, but much more important because now includes many instructions for the AI to follow when design a ship, taking into consideration the ship type and era, for the AI to build more capable fighting ships and harder to sink.

 

Thanks to Nathan TAF improvements, I can finally add a icon to the scout planes.

I made sure that follows vanilla art style and looks good IMO.

Don't forget to update TAF to see this ingame.

 

-100 gun damage exploit fixed

In UAD, for the players that are aware, it is possible to exploit the game and make the ships invulnerable to gun damage. This is a combination of ships with a incredible high base resistance with components and techs that will increase that value to a point that will neglect gun damage to a ship.

To make things funnier there are components, like torpedo protection or multi bottom hulls, that will increase the hull resistance to gun damage. Also the hulls resistance values seems in many ways random. It is possible to see super BBs with incredible high values, the same way we can see the same things on small ships like DDs or old ironclads. Why that ship have an high value and the other from the same class and era a small value?

 

The solution being applied for this issue:

Remove resistance values from torpedo protection and multi bottom hulls. A buff to torpedo damage reduction was added to compensate.

Rebalanced the armor resistance values.

Standardized all ship classes resistance values:

• Super BB 85
• all-big-guns BB 80
• BC 77
• pre dreadnoughts 75
• CA 70
• Semi armored cruiser 65
• Cl 55
• DD 40
• TB 25
• TR 10

 

Other stuff:

• Small improvements to Chile CL ship names.
• Small improvements to Greece BC, CA and CL ship names.
• A-H in 1940 campaign start, being a speculative nation at this point, will start neutral with the other major powers at war (Germany and Italy vs Britain and France). I added instead a big relation penalty with Turkey so It is easy for anyone interested playing with these nations to go to war quickly.
• Colors updated for USA, France and Portugal to make it easier to see on the map.

Edited 2 hours ago by o Barão

[o Barão]

41 minutes ago, flaviohc16 said:

Can we change the color of the neutral/minor powers on the map? It's too blueish and it hard to differentiate between USA and minors.

I updated USA, France and Portugal colors to make it easier to see.

Just download the "players" file.

[Lorents]

What is the function of "taf_scrap_enable" in the params.csv and shuld it be set to "0"?

[Peksern]

7 hours ago, o Barão said:

• Super BB 85
• Modern BB 80
• BC 77
• pre dreadnoughts 75
• CA 70
• Semi armored cruiser 65
• Cl 55
• DD 40
• TB 25
• TR 10

what about Dreadnoughts?

[StrikerDanger]

11 hours ago, o Barão said:

Standardized all ship classes resistance values:

• Super BB 85
• Modern BB 80
• BC 77
• pre dreadnoughts 75
• CA 70
• Semi armored cruiser 65
• Cl 55
• DD 40
• TB 25
• TR 10

I like this. No more obscenely high damage reductions! On a separate note, you forgot dreadnought hulls (as @Peksern pointed out). I'm also of the opinion that BCs should be a bit lower (pre dread levels with pre dread at 72/73 and dreads filling at 77) given the historical variety (but general lower armour quantity) of Battlecruisers

[EvnSknk]

13 hours ago, Peksern said:

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1fHHnsGfiCL6Ihgs34ntfaiHmRFyME3BU?usp=drive_link 

Sorry, forgot. Here you go.  Have a nice trip!

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1vuwH73ejMsZNJUNBILdS20M6dGjZi1KT?usp=drive_link

Here is the save from my Ottoman campaign where I had the similar issue

[slayerslaine]

I've been a long fan of your mod but I disagree with your fix for the -100% gun damage exploit. This was introduced, idk when, but because now the amount of tonnage of the ship effects hull resistance. More specifically, the closer the ship is to is to its tonnageMax the more resistance it gets. Vice versa for tonnageMin. As far as I know, there isn't a modifier that we currently have access to that can adjust/remove this effect.

I don't agree with the standardization of hull resistances at all. I believe that standardizing hull resistances would remove a lot of the uniqueness of hulls. Specifically between nations.

11 hours ago, o Barão said:

Why that ship have an high value and the other from the same class and era a small value?

This makes total sense. There were many instances during the two world wars that ships would suffer damage to their hull when firing their guns, among other structural weaknesses. Not to mention things like lee helm and such. For example:

Königsberg-class light cruisers suffered lee helm, structural damage when firing main guns and had the potential to capsize when if internal store where improperly loaded.
Courageous-class suffered structural stress when firing their guns, later converted to light carriers where its light construction made less of an issue

La Galissonnière-class would suffer cracking of their hull when firing their guns at full salvo weight

Mogami-class Also suffered damage when fire her guns, even when they were 155mm before her refit.

I know that a lot of this could be explained by light armor, but the concept that these were made to be as light as possible to increase speed and operational range as much as possible. Thus, sacrifices had to be made. This is partially emulated by the game in the form of Hull Form. That's why a lot of the really high resistance hulls tend to trade Hull Form for Resistance and Vice Versa. Among other things like like floatability, speed and such.
Currently as you fix works, since all the hulls have standardized resistance value, hulls that previously sacrificed a bunch of other stats for Resistance are completely inferior now to hulls that sacrificed Resistance.
Quick example;

Germany's Advanced Armored Cruiser I has (Hull Form 87, Stability 73, Floatability 69, Resistance  98, sustained speed while turning 40) Speed 29kn, Crew 500, 14900-18900 tons

USA's Modern Heavy Cruiser III has (Hull Form 101, Stability 79, Floatability 80, Resistance  65, sustained speed while turning 60) Speed 31kn, Crew 500, 11900-16400 tons

If I wanted to make a 16000 ton CA, and they both had their resistances tuned to 70, the Modern Heavy Cruiser III would be the the far superior choice. There really wouldn't ever be a reason to use the German Spee Hull at all. Not to mention that Germany also gets Modern Heavy Cruiser hulls that are similar to the USA's. All of these hulls are the same tech year unlock 1926


Personally, for my fix for the -100% gun damage exploit, I changed the parameter in the Stats file,
[endurance,,,sum,,Hull,$Stats_name_endurance,"gun_damage(+35;-35),...] to [endurance,,,sum,,Hull,$Stats_name_endurance,"gun_damage(+35;-30)...,]

This makes the max total amount of gun damage reduction to -95%.

So a resistance of about 100 would receive -30% gun damage from resistance. A resistance of 200 would receive 95%.
Personally, I don't like the curve on this scale but I'd prefer this fix overall.

Note that for whatever reason at 200 resistance you get the max amount of  stats from resistance. Anything past wouldn't do anything. 

[o Barão]

1 hour ago, StrikerDanger said:

On a separate note, you forgot dreadnought hulls (as @Peksern pointed out

I didn't. They are all included in the modern BB.

I will change that to all-big-guns Battleships to avoid possible confusion.

[o Barão]

2 hours ago, slayerslaine said:

This was introduced, idk when, but because now the amount of tonnage of the ship effects hull resistance. More specifically, the closer the ship is to is to its tonnageMax the more resistance it gets. Vice versa for tonnageMin. As far as I know, there isn't a modifier that we currently have access to that can adjust/remove this effect.

Not now, maybe since the beginning? Always has been like that? I can't say for sure, but it is there for a long time.

The difference is that now in NAR, in comparison with vanilla, no matter how big you can go with the hull, you will never get close to -100 gun damage.

 

2 hours ago, slayerslaine said:

This makes total sense.

That is not how it is implemented in vanilla game. Let me share you a quick example from the stock game just so you understand what I am talking about.

 

dd_8_france_dd,,hull,Flotilla Leader,,-1,-1,8.5,165,akizuki_hull_b,1.375,,,france,"type(dd), DD_german_big, dd, g4, var(nose_long)","hsize(2000), hull_form(98), stability(77), floatability(83), endurance(95), spot(0), turn(81), vis(4950), beam(0), draught(0)",,,,0.415,3,4,5250,6550,,,,,,,,38,4,6,0.475,40,-1,

 

A DD with 95 endurance, which is the resistance value in the "parts" file.

 

bb_7_austria,,hull,Super Battleship,,-1,-1,1.65,1150,kgeorge_hull_a,1.175,,,austria,"type(bb), BB_Austria_Super, Mixed_Quads, Middle_Big, bb, g4, Typical_Modern2_BB, Typical_Modern_BB","hsize(4100), hull_form(98), stability(92), floatability(95), endurance(90), spot(0), turn(40), vis(9000), beam(0), draught(0)",,,,0.15,4,6,92500,101500,,-10,14,-22.5,23.5,0.75,0.65,32.5,3,6,,32,-1,

 

Yes, this is a super battleship in vanilla game. The resistance value is smaller than in that DD. This makes any sense to you? For me it doens't.