Patch 27 - New Economy feedback.

[Ruby Rose]

6 hours ago, Powderhorn said:

Old system gave virtually nothing for a loss.  There were incentives to go PvP in the form of PvP only rewards.  Now people need to choose to hunt AI in dangerous waters, or other players in dangerous waters.  Either way, those who want to PvP for the sake of PvP will find it - if they spend some time looking.  No instant battles, but neither is everyone always protected.  (Except merchants plying home waters, but maybe in time they'll be forced into the wild too  )

If you are just looking for a "next goal" to chase, I'm not sure this patch offers it.  I do think it does a better job of intermingling different player types into the same patches of water.

hahaha dangerous waters caught french 14 ship fleet outside belize was in reinforcement zone no dubloons were recovered from that fleet that wasnt worth nearly loosing a 1st rate to them this risk is doing the battles to try and scrap by just to do teleports. there is no reward for pve now. people forget its not just the pvp server that suffers from these types of changes the pve server is pissed about as much as or even more then the pvp server,

Edited November 1, 2018 by Ruby Rose

[admin]

10 hours ago, Ameruccio Vespigo said:

 

 
Last but not least: I had over 32 Millions in gold this morning, now I have 1.6M Reals (25=1 ratio right?) , but the cost of the ships (both from Admiralty and Players) was converted 1=1 as far far as I see .

No- you are incorrect
Cost of ships that were on auctions was determined by the players before the patch. Npc ships will update soon, player contracts will have to expire. Also dont forget that NPC ships are free to capture in the open seas (no insurance though)

[LIONOFWALES]

PVPers don't generally care about PVE content... PVE content should be kept on the PVE server, perhaps the right road to success would be to have a PVE specific economy that generates the required resources and NPC ships to keep PVE players buisy with the game, the PVE server would need its own economy and NPC ship travelling patterns... but lets leave the PVP server out of a PVE discussion, keeping both servers entirely separate from each other, as two different and non-compatable beasts.

The two styles of gameplay can not survive on the same server, this is a game of two worlds, lets keep those worlds separate, perhaps consider Naval Action Legends?

[Lovec1990]

1 minute ago, LIONOFWALES said:

PVPers don't generally care about PVE content... PVE content should be kept on the PVE server, perhaps the right road to success would be to have a PVE specific economy that generates the required resources and NPC ships to keep PVE players buisy with the game, the PVE server would need its own economy and NPC ship travelling patterns... but lets leave the PVP server out of a PVE discussion, keeping both servers entirely separate from each other, as two different and non-compatable beasts.

The two styles of gameplay can not survive on the same server, this is a game of two worlds, lets keep those worlds separate, perhaps consider Naval Action Legends?

watch it if you remove current PvE content in PvP server you will kill it

[LIONOFWALES]

I think all I was really trying to say was... PVP will happen to PVE players on the PVP server... and I play alone, raiding from free ports to fill my coffers off of enemy shipping, it doesn't make millions but it sure is fun... I do see your point though as many people do look for PVE content on the PVP server, even I do a little PVE but most of my time is used up hunting in the open world... many times I even log off out away from land more than 200k away, so my gameplay is very specialized. I cant wait to see how the economy gets going now that everything is sooooo much easier to produce.

And I worded " keep those worlds separate " poorly... my bad.

If their is to be a revamp of the economy for PVE purposes I think the current state of the PVP PVE content is just fine... :Lets update the PVE server with more opportunities for those PVE players on the PVE server only, to offer more opportunity for those players to engage in action in open world without travel required...?

 

Edited November 1, 2018 by LIONOFWALES

[Ruby Rose]

21 minutes ago, admin said:

first rates are top class ships that should not be easily replaced by couple of clicks here and there.  Having said that I doubt doubloons are the bottleneck, i actually know they are not the bottleneck. You just keep associating them with expensive pvp marks.. they are not pvp marks. 

fine u want me to be more specific our clan spent alot of time and ingame gold to stock our clan warehouse with materials to replace first rates before patch we could field a full armada of firsts now we cant even field 2 first rates with current costs to build them thats not even touching on dubloons,

next lets hit victory marks which used to be converted into combat marks to pay for labor contracts for those pve players on the pvp and pve servers that used them to build ships and craft cannons and what not. now its not even worth it cant convert vic marks anymore cant effectively buy labor contracts without having to go out and battle spend hours hunting to maybe make 1 extra ship that day.

lets not forget the previous mark system worked fine before patch. it was a stable economy on its own, now we have dubs which in all honesty and from my experience today isnt even worth a grain of salt. according to u admins u can get 2k off a tbrig, which makes everything worthless in that regard cap 4 tbrigs estimated at 8k dubs, no value in doing pvp when tbrigs are worth more for the effort. less time spent chasing a player when most ships can outrun a tbrig ai. 

lets not forget the current missions have u hunting ai in enemy territory because all fleets spawning near u are likely of ur  own nationality. forcing players that dont want to pvp and just want to hunt ai for easy reals now have to go out at a much bigger risk. this not only pushes pve players away from the game but also makes the game more grindy and less fun. there is very little reward to do port battles, it actually has a higher detriment on pvp as any nation wants someone to take nearby ports but that give another nation an advantage over ai to sink. this patch basicly turned the pvp server into another pve server with much less pvp.

yes right now alot of negative reviews on steam and the charts show a decrease in players but we've been on a decrease of players since 2016 from 5000 to 400, as this game is going i'd be surprised if we still have over 300 players by release.

devs need to take another look at the patch and really consider are they willing to loose alot of players to satisfy a few.

[Lovec1990]

1 minute ago, LIONOFWALES said:

I think all I was really trying to say was... PVP will happen to PVE players on the PVP server... and I play alone, raiding from free ports to fill my coffers off of enemy shipping, it doesn't make millions but it sure is fun... I do see your point though as many people do look for PVE content on the PVP server, even I do a little PVE but most of my time is used up hunting in the open world... many times I even log off out away from land more than 200k away, so my gameplay is very specialized. I cant wait to see how the economy gets going now that everything is sooooo much easier to produce.

i belive most important new thing for PvP server is insurance people will be more daring/willing too fight

[LIONOFWALES]

to Lovec1990...

Yes insurance would be a really good thing to add to this game... some sort of compensation for a ship lost... hmmm, I know a few players that would agree with you on that...

P.S. Don't forget to punish the AFK.

Sail safe and sail well.

Edited November 1, 2018 by LIONOFWALES

[LIONOFWALES]

Ruby Rose,

PVP server is for PVPers and we like those missions the way they are... now if you want easier PVE on the PVE server then that is one thing, but lets keep the PVP server out of this and consider the PVE players on the PVE server where more PVE should happen, a good way to fix the issue, I feel, would be to simply change the routes for the enemy fleets on PVE server only this should help your predicament a bit, we have a PVP free zone its the PVE server, lets change it independently of the PVP server for those like yourself that like PVE so much.

Sail safe and sail well.

P.S. I love this game and mistakes made in development will not deter me from playing an unfinished game. It is that fun and the tall ships are awesome. Maybe I am hoplessly optamistic, or maybe I know a really good game when I see one, so don't buy the game until its full variant is available, or don't play it until its completed if you find that the development pains are difficult. All our progress will likely be reset aside from rank and craft xp, so lets see what the devs do and test and test and test so we get the best of both worlds.

Edited November 1, 2018 by LIONOFWALES

[Brontes]

The convertion is a joke, not equitable and equilibrate. And u have not explain this, or i dont find 

The teleport pay in doublon is a joke

I have before 2 shipwiard lvl3, now I cant upgrade 1 lvl2. 

I have loose so much ressources trading my warehouse. I dont undersand and u not explain 

À most beautifull ui=not more simple, much click for do one action = not more simple. 

.... Have u really undersand that the players have need ? I dont think. 

For à bette expérience for all do à full wipe. Is the bette thing. 

[Ruby Rose]

10 minutes ago, LIONOFWALES said:

Ruby Rose,

PVP server is for PVPers and we like those missions the way they are... now if you want easier PVE on the PVE server then that is one thing, but lets keep the PVP server out of this and consider the PVE players on the PVE server where more PVE should happen, a good way to fix the issue, I feel, would be to simply change the routes for the enemy fleets on PVE server only this should help your predicament a bit, we have a PVP free zone its the PVE server, lets change it independently of the PVP server for those like yourself that like PVE so much.

u seem to not understand this eco patch didnt just happen only on the pvp server it happened on both servers and u say we who is this we u speak of cause from what i've seen so far on this forum and other chats alot of players dont like this patch not one bit and that includes the pve server players who are really miffed about this patch. i'm a pvper not pure pve i speak mostly about the pve aspect because that is what this server has become its pve with pvp elements, before patch pvp was a must a standard something that happened every day now the pve ai's are worth more then sinking and looting and caping a 1st rate player. a tbrig contains 1/4th the value of a ocean in dubs alone, why go after a player when a tbrig is now a much easier target what spend the time looking for players when an ai has more reward for less risk. 

what incentives are there for pvp combat, what incentives are there for RvR combat what does pvp and rvr have more worth then caping a tbrig, do u get more from a player then u can from a tbrig u know what a tbrig can have u never know what a player is worth but ai ah that u do know.

as it stands pvp combat is pointless with the new patch, this server is now pve more then pvp.

prove me wrong show me where pvp combat and rvr would benefit u more then pve combat with time spent searching killing/caping compared to pvp.

 

show us all what benefit over the old system does this new eco patch provide 

Edited November 1, 2018 by Ruby Rose

[LIONOFWALES]

the insentive is... player vs player combat and I like the long hunt because its very hard … I am that kind of player, I like a difficult game full of difficult opponents.

Sail safe and sail well.

I am realizing that I may be the minority, just know that I spoke and consider my side also.

The point of PVP combat is the potential difficulty of it... I hunted and killed a player the other day and I got little for it , but the fight was epic... it took 1 hour and 40 minutes to finally get the win, I worked hard for that win and got a few combat marks at that time... but I really didn't care about the combat marks, I never really used them anyway except for Le Hermoine.

Edited November 1, 2018 by LIONOFWALES

[Ruby Rose]

1 minute ago, LIONOFWALES said:

the insentive is... player vs player combat and I like the long hunt because its very hard … I am that kind of player, I like a difficult game full of difficult opponents.

right u like it that way but there is no incentive to do player vs player when player vs ai is more beneficial to time spent and greater reward to less risk, nothing in this eco  patch was worth destroying a working system,

[LIONOFWALES]

oh yes vs NPC is a far better pay out... I remember on the old global server when I was first starting out, and figured out that a fleet of 3rd rates could be farmed by one 1rst rate, I made soooo much in game credits so fast, even when Wasa first came out I found I could destroy a large fleet of ships with it and come out with around 300,000 in game credits. I did that when I was keeping ports for Lichenthrope  clan on the old global server, how can we get away from doing this kind of grinding to keep ports on the PVP server, its going to be very difficult.

And I do agree with you... the previous system did work, these devs sure like throwing the apple basket don't they....

And yes I do see what you are saying regarding the insentive for rewards... that is PVE vs PVP,

Edited November 1, 2018 by LIONOFWALES

[Ruby Rose]

1 minute ago, LIONOFWALES said:

oh yes vs NPC is a far better pay out... I remember on the old global server when I was first starting out, and figured out that a fleet of 3rd rates could be farmed by one 1rst rate, I made soooo much in game credits so fast, even when Wasa first came out I found I could destroy a large fleet of ships with it and come out with around 300,000 in game credits. I did that when I was keeping ports for Lichenthrope  clan on the old global server, how can we get away from doing this kind of grinding to keep ports on the PVP server, its going to be very difficult.

no it doesnt take us away from that grind u still need to grind to keep ports especially for clan with alot of ports, and this patch doesnt change that it actual makes people farm more ai then before to get easy dubloons rather then doing pvp.

[admin]

45 minutes ago, Ruby Rose said:

lets not forget the current missions have u hunting ai in enemy territory because all fleets spawning near u are likely of ur  own nationality. forcing players that dont want to pvp and just want to hunt ai for easy reals now have to go out at a much bigger risk. this not only pushes pve players away from the game but also makes the game more grindy and less fun. there is very little reward to do port battles, it actually has a higher detriment on pvp as any nation wants someone to take nearby ports but that give another nation an advantage over ai to sink. this patch basicly turned the pvp server into another pve server with much less pvp.
 

There will be conquest missions and orders to take out clan based ports and operations after localization which will reward players for ports and give special things for pvp. It was discussed quite a while ago. You are looking at the unfinished product.

Now in terms of sailing to enemy ports our design vision is now set.

• War server: adrenaline, risk (much bigger risk), excitement
• Peace server: calm, tranquility and relaxation

Peace server does not force you to hunt ai in the enemy territory due to neutral ports you can hunt them everywhere in peace and calm.
If you don't like "much bigger risk" move to the Peace server. War server means - action is in enemy waters or being in defence fleet revenge ***nking bastards in your home waters.

[fremen]

The cost of tow ships ist very expensive. Please change. Pay 100000 reals to tow a bellona when you gain 5000 by ordinary mission in PVE...seems had no sense for me.

[Ruby Rose]

1 minute ago, admin said:

There will be conquest missions and orders to take out clan based ports and operations after localization which will reward players for ports and give special things for pvp. It was discussed quite a while ago. You are looking at the unfinished product.

Now in terms of sailing to enemy ports our design vision is now set.
War server: adrenaline, risk (much bigger risk), excitement
Peace server: calm, tranquility and relaxation

Peace server does not force you to hunt ai in the enemy territory due to neutral ports you can hunt them everywhere in peace and calm.
If you don't like "much bigger risk" move to the Peace server. 

we will see but with the war server right as it is there is no real incentive to take ports from other clans

it only benefits the nation ur attacking close to not  ur own. dont see pvp being the craze anymore on war server

[admin]

Just now, fremen said:

The cost of tow ships ist very expensive. Please change. Pay 100000 reals to tow a bellona when you gain 5000 by ordinary mission in PVE...seems had no sense for me.

You probably have not read the patch topic - its a bug - will be updated most likely today.

[admin]

2 minutes ago, Ruby Rose said:

we will see but with the war server right as it is there is no real incentive to take ports from other clans

it only benefits the nation ur attacking close to not  ur own. dont see pvp being the craze anymore on war server

War server concept unties our hands so we can get our vision out.
So many things can be moved to clan warfare now. You are looking at the unfinished product
 

 

[LIONOFWALES]

nice... glad to see this... perhaps we could see more random fleet patterns on the PVE server? Like enemy ships in friendly waters so that people don't have to go look too far for combat on PVE server

for the casual... that can only be on for half an hour

 

Edited November 1, 2018 by LIONOFWALES

[Ruby Rose]

1 minute ago, admin said:

War server concept unties our hands so we can get our vision out. So many things can be moved to clan warfare now
You are looking at the unfinished product
 

 

u say that but why not test these things out on the testbed and refine them there before implementing them on a live server. 

[LIONOFWALES]

not sure mate... I like how it looks and this was tested on the test server by many players.

Or was some of this left out and surprise its here?

Edited November 1, 2018 by LIONOFWALES

[Ruby Rose]

with the patch if u were to wipe the server u give everyone every nation ai to attack effectively removing pvp and rvr from the game

[LIONOFWALES]

Enemy NPC in friendly waters on PVE server will give content for PVE players that only want to play for a short bit...

Edited November 1, 2018 by LIONOFWALES