Ship Knowledge

[GrubbyZebra]

Can we implement the "officer" knowledge schema that is found in Legends instead of the current "grind and pray to the RNG gods for a book drop" schema we currently have?

Player hires officers, assigns them to ships (so knowledge gained is ship-type specific). Ship XP can unlock officer slots, each ship can have up to 4: quartermaster, gunner, carpenter, boatswain. Carpenter "learns" to repair the ship more efficiently through repairing the ship (i.e. xp gained for damage repaired in battle), quartermaster learns to handle the ship better/store supplies better to improve handling (xp gained through sailing/time in combat), gunner learns to operate guns quicker/more accurately (xp gained for damage given in battle), boatswain learns to manage crew better (xp gained for boarding?). 

The idea is coupled with the shipbuilding post I made previously (http://forum.game-labs.net/topic/24416-change-to-shipbuildingupgrades/)as a way to reduce "stacking" upgrades while also eliminating some of the boring as hell PvE grind for random drops or having the super-rare stuff (like some of the books and copper plating) only being the realm of those that can hit epic events (i.e. players in nations that can afford 1st rate fleets).

 

[Guest]

I actually like the current diversity of ship knowledges, but I'd like all books to be available for everyone through combat marks.. I hate winning against someone and have the feeling that I won because I simply had better knowledge/upgrades..

[Landsman]

58 minutes ago, Bearwall said:

all books to be available for everyone through combat marks

PvP marks, if anything... we don't need more reason to PvE... Making all Books available for PvP marks not only does justice to the pure PvP players but also gives PvE players incentive to get into PvP, since the price for a PvP mark is pretty high ( until alt farming takes over )...

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Landsman said:

PvP marks, if anything... we don't need more reason to PvE... Making all Books available for PvP marks not only does justice to the pure PvP players but also gives PvE players incentive to get into PvP, since the price for a PvP mark is pretty high ( until alt farming takes over )...

This would be really nice. If I could pay 200 pvp marks for book of five rings then I'd probably get it faster that way then I ever would through rng.

[Palatinose]

@Landsman think this would only work if you donated PvP marks also for losses. And this is in a ridiculous amount exploitable.

Leads to players leaving, more ganking etc etc..

I like the current system tbh. Could be tuned a bit towards better and not just any books for pvp marks but basically its fine. Atm a casual player doesnt have too much a disadvantage from books.

[Barbancourt]

3 hours ago, Landsman said:

PvP marks, if anything... we don't need more reason to PvE... Making all Books available for PvP marks not only does justice to the pure PvP players but also gives PvE players incentive to get into PvP, since the price for a PvP mark is pretty high ( until alt farming takes over )...

Lots of players don't have much hope of getting PVP marks unless their opponent disconnects in the middle of battle, LOL.  I actually wish the books couldn't be sold/transferred between accounts.  It ruins their mystique if you can just buy them. 

[Slim McSauce]

4 hours ago, Landsman said:

PvP marks, if anything... we don't need more reason to PvE... Making all Books available for PvP marks not only does justice to the pure PvP players but also gives PvE players incentive to get into PvP, since the price for a PvP mark is pretty high ( until alt farming takes over )...

No thanks, the only reason why alt farming/pvp marks are bearable now is because you can't really get anything too powerful besides magic ships.

You aren't going to incentivize anyone by hanging a big fat middle finger over their head.

[Landsman]

11 hours ago, Palatinose said:

think this would only work if you donated PvP marks also for losses.

No, I mean keep the drops in PvE as is but add them also for PvP marks. No marks for losers needed.

[Landsman]

10 hours ago, Slim Jimmerson said:

No thanks, the only reason why alt farming/pvp marks are bearable now is because you can't really get anything too powerful besides magic ships.

You aren't going to incentivize anyone by hanging a big fat middle finger over their head.

You do realise that you can already buy all rare books for marks, ye? You only need to find the carebears that farm them and give them PvP marks as trade. All it would do is speed things up, since you can do it in the admiralty store directly...

[Slim McSauce]

2 hours ago, Landsman said:

You do realise that you can already buy all rare books for marks, ye? You only need to find the carebears that farm them and give them PvP marks as trade. All it would do is speed things up, since you can do it in the admiralty store directly...

PVP marks are ironically the weakest currency in game. The only thing they're backed by is a handful of upgrades and 2 ships. Who knows if they'll be around in 3 months with their problems

Edited January 29, 2018 by Slim Jimmerson

[Landsman]

7 hours ago, Slim Jimmerson said:

PVP marks are ironically the weakest currency in game.

"Weakest currency" in game being worth up to 400k each and the "handful of upgrades" include navy hull and navy structure and one of the 2 ships just so happens to be the Wasa, lol... more like the strongest currency in game? Upgrades and skillbooks are hardly currency  and gold is almost worthless. The PvE heroes and carebears hiding in their greenzones guzzle them up like candy, paying loads of gold and rare upgrades if you sell to them.

If they finally punish alt farmers harder and perma-ban their accounts after the 2nd or 3rd violation, the price for PvP marks might even go up further....

[Slim McSauce]

37 minutes ago, Landsman said:

"Weakest currency" in game being worth up to 400k each and the "handful of upgrades" include navy hull and navy structure and one of the 2 ships just so happens to be the Wasa, lol... more like the strongest currency in game? Upgrades and skillbooks are hardly currency  and gold is almost worthless. The PvE heroes and carebears hiding in their greenzones guzzle them up like candy, paying loads of gold and rare upgrades if you sell to them.

Sorry for baiting you but this pretty much sums up my opposition to marks.

Obviously Wasa and the upgrades are OP when stacked, and keep already good PVPers unjustly on the top of the food chain.

The only people I see defending marks either A. Want to retain this advantage over the game B. Have an anti "carebear" attitude for whatever reason.

Return to the gold/CM standard. Hardcore PVPers don't need bigger heads or more rewards. Just look what it's done to the game thus far. This is coming from a person who only plays NA for the PVP.

Edited January 29, 2018 by Slim Jimmerson

[Landsman]

5 hours ago, Slim Jimmerson said:

A. Want to retain this advantage over the game

I don't like how marks give an advantage with Wasa etc. but on the other hand it isn't game breaking. It is the only real incentive to get PvE players into PvP and even here they can simply buy the marks... cosmetic and prestige PvP rewards would be better tho...

5 hours ago, Slim Jimmerson said:

B. Have an anti "carebear" attitude for whatever reason.

I have no problem with carebears whatsoever, as long as they stay on the PvE server. When I log in and see 700 players online, of which 300 are alts and 350 are PvE players that for whatever hello kittying reason decided to play on the PvP server and spend their lives in the greenzones, even at max rank and beyond all while complaining about PvP players having an advantage for doing PvP, while they don't do PvP to get better ( unless it's ganking 10 vs 1, which doesn't teach you anything ) to be able to compete, then yes this gives me cancer.

5 hours ago, Slim Jimmerson said:

Just look what it's done to the game thus far.

It's a system with many flaws but still better than anything else we got to encourage PvP. Ask admin how PvP increased with the introduction of PvP marks, because it did. PvP players can finally pay their shit without having to play PvE at all. I want PvP marks to be changed / removed BUT only if we get a better system to promote PvP, like account bound PvP marks that can be exchanged for paints / ship skins, cannons and hull/rig repairs etc. ...

Just look at all the pussies hiding in the greenzone and even now that we have the fleet practice, they could get better and do PvP but they don't ( unless they can gank PvP players like 10 vs 1 ).... Do we really want to give them less reason to move their weak and lazy asses out of the zone? Just wondering...

Edited January 29, 2018 by Landsman

[Slim McSauce]

2 hours ago, Landsman said:

It's a system with many flaws but still better than anything else we got to encourage PvP. Ask admin how PvP increased with the introduction of PvP marks, because it did. PvP players can finally pay their shit without having to play PvE at all. I want PvP marks to be changed / removed BUT only if we get a better system to promote PvP, like account bound PvP marks that can be exchanged for paints / ship skins, cannons and hull/rig repairs etc. ...

I commend your civility, and I can get behind PVP marks for cosmetics/minor items.

I don't think people want to be carebears in the way you describe, I think the game is just so lacking in OW PVP objectives that in the choice between staying in your territory and having PVP come to you, or searching for potentially hours to find someone to 1v1/2v1 with, most people wanna just be able to log in, check the map, see where the major fights are and join them. We don't really have anything promoting big fights on OW.

[Landsman]

44 minutes ago, Slim Jimmerson said:

I don't think people want to be carebears in the way you describe, I think the game is just so lacking in OW PVP objectives that in the choice between staying in your territory and having PVP come to you, or searching for potentially hours to find someone to 1v1/2v1 with, most people wanna just be able to log in, check the map, see where the major fights are and join them. We don't really have anything promoting big fights on OW.

Well, if everyone was looking around for PvP instead of sitting in the zones, there would be more PvP but I get what you are saying... maybe they should bring the PvP event back.

[GrubbyZebra]

1 hour ago, Landsman said:

Well, if everyone was looking around for PvP instead of sitting in the zones, there would be more PvP but I get what you are saying... maybe they should bring the PvP event back.

This would be solved by building out the player economy/trading/crafting game, but I digress.

[Landsman]

23 minutes ago, BPHick said:

This would be solved by building out the player economy/trading/crafting game

Making people actually leave the zones to get their eco and trading stuff done would be good enough but yeah improving the system can't hurt either...

[GrubbyZebra]

22 hours ago, Landsman said:

Making people actually leave the zones to get their eco and trading stuff done would be good enough but yeah improving the system can't hurt either...

That is one part of it.

[Barbancourt]

On 1/29/2018 at 12:05 PM, Landsman said:

Well, if everyone was looking around for PvP instead of sitting in the zones, there would be more PvP but I get what you are saying...

That would still mostly result in seal-clubbing though, which should not qualify as "PVP".  When they get rid of PVP marks people may feel less like sailing into dangerous areas is just giving their enemies free marks. 

[Licinio Chiavari]

Even if I'm not a good PVPer, may be I have some clues.

I do agree that seeing 3 Indef in the greenzone not even trying to attack me alone on Endy... well: it hurts.

This is the problem of GreenZones and, as stated above, too much economy being able to run with resources around capitol. So not forcing people to move out. And personally (even if USA) I'm well against greenzones.

On the other side PVP marks, especially making Wasa (still by far one of the best ship around - BR up made only her less viable in PBs, not in PVP) only by them give an extra edge that PVPer doesnt need.

Cosmetics for sure (the bragging off in all games), some "better" ups are fine (Navy Hull and Structure, still the latter put again the issue of too much thickness on 1st rates - another problem) are fine too: you PVE, you get Gazelle (need it back to 2%, now is total crap); you PVP, you got NHR. But again not the "super ship".

Moreover PVP marks prices should be a bit balanced. 150 PVP marks are not a lot for full time PVPer, but looking at the Leaderboard, those over 40-50/day are almost the same 20ish names.

 

I have to underline that IMHO another reason "carebears" do not leave greenzones due to some mechanics I already pointed:

A good PVP ship is usually far faster than anything they can field... so the PVPer on a 5th can simply turn around if facing bad odds. If the PVPer is on a Wasa, he can easily kite taggers and kill them well before the "main fleet" can harm him (seen too many times on US coast).

This enormous superiority of fast Wasas (and Bellonas) comes by the absence of any limit to bonus stacks. For this reason I repeated: we need a "hull max speed": no matter what you use, you cant go faster than X, and I'm not referring to 15.5 speed cap, but a ship speed cap equal to base + X%. The better ups/book you got, simply you'll be able to cap speed with a not super light built.

Another enormous superiority of PVPer, on Wasa/Bellonas, comes out by demasting. Being soo easy they can simply demast in a couple broadsides, then keeping kiting or even turning, sinking the tagger and restart kiting. And "infinite" battle repairs complete the "cake" allowing skilled PVPer to soak a prolonged battle.

You should understand that the "carebear" so quoted, the 10th time he sees the enemy easily avoid combat or being able to kite and kill 1 by 1 a far bigger fleet will end =

1) avoiding an aggressive enemy (seeing in him a "PVPer") so automatically "superior"

2) engage only with enormous number superiority (last times US unofficial "doctrine" to handle an heavy raider was AT LEAST 5 ships to 1: two fast and light taggers, a secondary heavier tagger and minumum two heavier ships!).

3) in the free time avoid risks = STAY IN THE GREEN ZONE also because there's not need to exit

So I do repeat: we need some mechanics corrected that, aside being unreal, are hampering not-PVPers to try it because the chances are totally against them in almost any condition.

With the side effect that carebears continue to be carebears without any PVP experience, and PVPers get better and better both experience and gear wise.

Edited January 31, 2018 by Licinio Chiavari
typos

[Licinio Chiavari]

42 minutes ago, Barbancourt (rownd) said:

That would still mostly result in seal-clubbing though, which should not qualify as "PVP".  When they get rid of PVP marks people may feel less like sailing into dangerous areas is just giving their enemies free marks. 

Yes it could. Still having some chances going 1v2 (that now often they do not have at all even 1v3) will allow them try.

At the moment even 10 PVEers can be farmed by a single good Wasa. Very demoralizing for everyone. And I'd underline that not all people (the "casuals") have sometimes the time and thus the resources to continously replace (and well fit) lost ships; the ship quality gap, upgrades/books overstacking (and in the hand of hardcores) widen more and more the gap.

Also rebalancing ships, trying to give each one something good over similar sized ones, will help a) seeing not always the same ships [now as you see an Essex you know he's an easy prey for example] b) giving each ship a chance against a comparable size and category ship.